So VR is here

RasTa

Playstation's attempt anyway that I think it's worth discussing in this thread.

There are demo stalls in 1 Dame Lane, Dublin until Sunday if anybody didn't know.

It's 50% reservation and 50% walk in when I was talking to the girl about it, think it opened yesterday so good chance you'll be able to try it yourself if walking by

I was impressed by the response to what I was doing and was in there for about 45mins but would have loved to stay longer.

http://trypsvr.com/en-gb

Temptamperu

I dont want an uncomfortable sweatbox on my face when gaming. Im also hearing that you will start feeling sick after 20 minutes or so. Also its 400 quid for the thing. I think VR will go the way of motion control and kinect.

Zillah

Temptamperu wrote: »

I dont want an uncomfortable sweatbox on my face when gaming. Im also hearing that you will start feeling sick after 20 minutes or so. Also its 400 quid for the thing. I think VR will go the way of motion control and kinect.

What novel and well-researched views you have

Motion sickness is dependent entirely on the person, and even more so the game. Different types of game are more prone to it than others, and it's something they have a whole range of tricks for dealing with; as someone who owns a Vive I can tell you it's not been an issue at all.

Dyr

VR's been here for a while, wanna get up to shpeed there

No idea what the playstation implementation is like though

NellyJelly

RasTa wrote: »

Playstation's attempt anyway that I think it's worth discussing in this thread.

There are demo stalls in 1 Dame Lane, Dublin until Sunday if anybody didn't know.

It's 50% reservation and 50% walk in when I was talking to the girl about it, think it opened yesterday so good chance you'll be able to try it yourself if walking by

I was impressed by the response to what I was doing and was in there for about 45mins but would have loved to stay longer.

Do you know what time the stalls are open? I might try to get into town after work tomorrow.

Christ 400 blips :eek:

200 and we'll talk but even then it would want to have the developer support long term for me to even think about it.

Dyr

You can talk all ye like but 200 will only get you a phone strapped to your head via a piece of plastic

Temptamperu

It still looks like an uncomfortable piece of equipment that will hinder extended play. And I like extended play.

Retr0gamer

For consoles it's the new Mega CD. You split the install base with any add on and when you make a game specifically for VR you are selling to way less people so it doesn't make sense. Couple that with Sony's penchant for dropping anything that underperforms at the drop of a hat then I don't really see a future in this on console.

Dyr

this isn't the future of console gaming..its the future of everything

Staring at flat screen will seem quaint in about a decade

Venom

Retr0gamer wrote: »

For consoles it's the new Mega CD. You split the install base with any add on and when you make a game specifically for VR you are selling to way less people so it doesn't make sense. Couple that with Sony's penchant for dropping anything that underperforms at the drop of a hat then I don't really see a future in this on console.

Yeah considering how fast Sony was to drop the move camera and controllers and the PS Vita which people really seemed to like, no way would I be an early adopter of their version of VR.

Bambi wrote: »

this isn't the future of console gaming..its the future of everything

Staring at flat screen will seem quaint in about a decade

Funny enough the same thing was said about 3D TV's.

Dyr

Venom wrote: »

Funny enough the same thing was said about 3D TV's.

The same thing was said about lots of things and it was wrong because it was marketing bull****

When it was said about televisions, VCR's and mobile phones it was right


The trick is knowing when its right

ERG89

Venom wrote: »

Funny enough the same thing was said about 3D TV's.

Yeah and they also have a good chance of making you feel queasy after an hour. Biggest problem for me (as well as price although the PSVR is a lot more forgiving than the vive or rift) is the controller issue. The rifts look terrible and they want 200 quid for it. It doesn't look like they know how to handle movement that we'll either. Space is a problem too as you need essentially a dedicated room for the things.
It's not the future it's an attempt at trying to figure out what is the next evolution of gaming. Don't see it working on any system although maybe after several iterations it could offer a way to play a unique experience. So far there doesn't seem to be one game that answers why someone should pay 400 & much more on an hyped tech fad

Grayditch

I'd like to give it a shot. But at that money, despite seemingly good price for that tech, it's too rich for my blood. Maybe if it holds it's ground and actually develops into more than just an abandoned promise, it would be something I'd invest in.

SeantheMan

Maybe the huge PS VR thread over on the PS forum ?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057573337&page=31

CiDeRmAn

Bambi wrote: »

The same thing was said about lots of things and it was wrong because it was marketing bull****

When it was said about televisions, VCR's and mobile phones it was right


The trick is knowing when its right

And that's the kind of statement you hear from penniless people outside the betting shop.

Many of us, having bought into Kinect, Mega CD, 32X, Move and heaven knows how many other high priced peripherals on console are too aware that they fail more often than they succeed.
Sensible people will give it 6 months, better still a year to see what becomes of the format.
Early adopters will do what they always do, but there are not many older early adopters to such hardware, having had their fingers burned too many times.
€400 is a lot of money for a console peripheral.
You have to ask yourself just how many AAA titles are going to use it, and use it effectively, or are people going to be relying on indie efforts and the occassional titbit from Sony.
This is what happened with the Move device, a handful of meaningful and game enhancing implementations, otherwise it got in the way and cost the punter money that they never got value for.

VR might be the future, but it seems that future is on open formats like PC, where functionality can be easily patched into both new and legacy titles, rather than console, a closed format where it costs money to update games and so only money makers are going to get the effort and then they are going to try to sell it to you all over again.

Grahamer666

You need a PS Camera to use it too so it's a lot more than €400.

Nody

And as always there's Jim Sterling's summary that's pretty much on the point about it:

It's a gimmick that may evolve into something useful.

Zillah

ERG89 wrote: »

Yeah and they also have a good chance of making you feel queasy after an hour.

Again, no, that's not how it works. If a game is badly designed and the person is susceptible then they will get queasy within a couple of minutes. If you're still fine after five minutes you'll be fine all day as far as nausea is concerned.

A lot of VR games have you on your feet, so you can get tired after an hour, and they press down on your face a bit, so you might want to take it off and let your skin breathe for a few minutes, but nausea isn't the issue. We're in the first generation so they're a little bit heavier and less comfortable than they should be, but that's going to improve.

Pretty much the only people I've ever seen talk about why VR won't work are people know nothing about it.
(I mean all this for PC, by the way, I've no idea what PSVR is going to be like - personally I was sceptical that a console could maintain the framerate.)

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

VR might be the future, but it seems that future is on open formats like PC, where functionality can be easily patched into both new and legacy titles, rather than console, a closed format where it costs money to update games and so only money makers are going to get the effort and then they are going to try to sell it to you all over again.

This was a common misconception in the early days. What has become apparent is that retrofitting non-VR games to VR is actually largely pointless. Unless a game is designed from Day 1 to be a VR game the gameplay and user interface will never feel right.

Maximus Alexander

I wouldn't have much interest myself; can't imagine ever wanting to put on a helmet to play games. Especially when it appears to do more to limit game mechanics than it does to expand them.

Zillah

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I wouldn't have much interest myself; can't imagine ever wanting to put on a helmet to play games. Especially when it appears to do more to limit game mechanics than it does to expand them.

Where is this sort of stuff coming from? VR offers entirely new and truly awesome gaming experiences that are completely impossible to recreate elsewhere. It won't replace 2D monitors until they are so light and so high resolution that virtual desktops become preferred to real desktops, but that doesn't mean they're not an amazing addition to the options for a gamer who can afford it.

lertsnim

The new PSVita or PSP. I'll leave other people get burned this time.

Maximus Alexander

Zillah wrote: »

Where is this sort of stuff coming from? VR offers entirely new and truly awesome gaming experiences that are completely impossible to recreate elsewhere. It won't replace 2D monitors until they are so light and so high resolution that virtual desktops become preferred to real desktops, but that doesn't mean they're not an amazing addition to the options for a gamer who can afford it.

Which sort of stuff? My lack of interest? I dunno, I'm not interested in fishing either but I've never tried to analyse why.

Zillah

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Which sort of stuff?

This sort of stuff: "Especially when it appears to do more to limit game mechanics than it does to expand them."

It's literally providing game experiences that were completely impossible before now. I just saw a video of a guy falling over because he forgot the table in front of him wasn't real and tried to lean on it. Have you ever been anywhere near that close to that immersed in a game?

Skatedude

People who havent tried vr. "I dont like it and think it's a fad"

People who have used vr "OH MY GOD"

Sephiroth_dude

Personally I'd buy an oculus rift or a vive before I'd think about buying ps vr.

Maximus Alexander

Zillah wrote: »

This sort of stuff: "Especially when it appears to do more to limit game mechanics than it does to expand them."

It's literally providing game experiences that were completely impossible before now. I just saw a video of a guy falling over because he forgot the table in front of him wasn't real and tried to lean on it. Have you ever been anywhere near that close to that immersed in a game?

Nothing I've seen come out of it yet has looked particularly novel nor done anything to pique my interest. I haven't seen any new types of game mechanics that were compelling and couldn't have been achieved without a VR headset. It's just a new type of screen like, but one that makes some genres unplayable and requires you to wear a helmet. I can see how it adds marginal utility to things like simulators and motor racing games, but I'm not a particular fan of either genre.

I'm cool with you being excited about it like, I'm just not. I wouldn't see it as much different than a niche peripheral like a flight stick or driving wheel. Each to their own.

o1s1n

How someone can compare VR to motion controls and consider it a fad is just mind boggling.

Not everything which tries to add a new experience to gaming is on an equal level. Motion controls let you have a movement related response in a game. VR actually puts you into the game. It's completely and utterly different.

I agree with Retr0 in that this is doomed to failure on the PS4 though. You really need an open ended system (ie, a PC) to get the most out of this technology.

The most fun I've had with a Rift is just trying out new demos and experiences people have put together. I don't really see it as a standard gaming device which you use to interact with a console. Not yet anyway.

TerrorFirmer

You need to try out VR before you dismiss it, really. It's not designed to replace gaming as we know it, which some people seem to immediately leap to for whatever reason. It's a different way of gaming. Yes, in the future, they may possibly become the one and the same in some shape or form, but for now, nobody is trying to convince anyone that it's the way to play all games.

Playing games built for the Vive/Oculus/PSVR from the ground up is mind-melting experience, it's just such a radical leap forward in technology. I think this recent video of Ronnie O' Sullivan trying VR snooker sums it up nicely.

It's one of those rare things you genuinely can't truly understand without trying it - people find it hard to grasp the reality of genuinely being 'in' the virtual world. I don't even use my Oculus Rift that much as the range of games isn't quite there at the moment but it's an experience like no other when I am using it now and again - and it's a stellar party piece.

I've shown it to loads of family and friends who wouldn't really be up to speed on the latest tech or what's happening in the gaming world and they were genuinely taken back that such technology even exists - I also had the Gear VR for a while and while mobile VR headsets are largely poor, the Gear VR with a Galaxy is a good experience and not dissimilar to the Oculus Rift experience.

One area it particularly excels in are simulators - racing, flight, etc. There's a demo called Vox Machinae and even though it's old now, it still remains for me one of the most impressive VR demo's available. It's a wet dream for anyone who loved Mech Warrior back in the day, the sense of scale and manning the cockpit of a 50ft, lumbering mech is immense, and with head tracking you can fully move around and explore every panel, dial, button and lever in detail.

This was a common misconception in the early days. What has become apparent is that retrofitting non-VR games to VR is actually largely pointless. Unless a game is designed from Day 1 to be a VR game the gameplay and user interface will never feel right.

Exactly this. 3D injectors like VorpX or whatever the other one is is actually hurting VR in some ways - playing AAA games in VR that were never designed for VR can and does work, to varying levels, but the overall experience is nothing like a purpose-built game. The immersion, scale and depth perception just isn't there.....with those games, it does genuinely feel gimmicky in most cases.

VR is not going anywhere, to be honest, but I can easily see the PS VR not doing that well. Even on the PC for the best experience you need the €600+ headset and a seriously beefy PC to drive it fluidly for the better games.

Sephiroth_dude

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Personally I'd buy an oculus rift or a vive before I'd think about buying ps vr.

But not everyone can afford the nearly €3,000 that you're going to have to sink into the oculus or the vive.

The PS4 is €400, the PSVR is €400 (with the €50/€100 - can't remember which - for the camera). That still works at €850-€900 for the lot.

Plus, realistically, a lot of people would already own a PS4.

Admittedly it won't be the same levels of the previous two, but, from what I've heard, still pretty decent for what you're paying.

TerrorFirmer

I haven't seen any new types of game mechanics that were compelling and couldn't have been achieved without a VR headset.

It's just a new type of screen like, but one that makes some genres unplayable and requires you to wear a helmet.

I wouldn't see it as much different than a niche peripheral like a flight stick or driving wheel. Each to their own.

Only somebody who's never tried VR would be able to make statements like that.

As a medium of entertainment, it's a whole new platform and adds a previously unexperienced dimension as unique as the experience of the first televisions or consoles.

I don't know how you can be so damning of something so revolutionary that you've never tried. Describing it as a 'new screen' and similar to a niche input controller really just shows how little you understand it.

Maximus Alexander

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Only somebody who's never tried VR would be able to make statements like that.

As a medium of entertainment, it's a whole new platform and adds a previously unexperienced dimension as unique as the experience of the first televisions or consoles.

I don't know how you can be so damning of something so revolutionary that you've never tried. Describing it as a 'new screen' and similar to a niche input controller really just shows how little you understand it.

You're making bizarre assumptions here and making the classic fallacy of "I really like this thing so surely everyone else must too!" There are rafts upon rafts of people who have tried it and, even if initially impressed by the novelty, ultimately thought 'Meh'.

Zillah

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Nothing I've seen come out of it yet has looked particularly novel nor done anything to pique my interest. I haven't seen any new types of game mechanics that were compelling and couldn't have been achieved without a VR headset. It's just a new type of screen like, but one that makes some genres unplayable and requires you to wear a helmet. I can see how it adds marginal utility to things like simulators and motor racing games, but I'm not a particular fan of either genre.

I'm cool with you being excited about it like, I'm just not. I wouldn't see it as much different than a niche peripheral like a flight stick or driving wheel. Each to their own.

I'm honestly not just being combative, and this is not meant to sound like a hostile put-down, but: you literally don't know what you're talking about. You are speaking from a position of ignorance. You really don't get it.

Try the Budget Cuts demo on a Vive, or play through Forgotten Realms, or shoot a bunch of cartoon dudes attacking your castle with arrows in Valve's The Lab, and you will understand why what you're saying above is based in ignorance.

You're entitled to not like it, of course, but that's only possible after you try it. The sort of comments like you make above are only possible if you simply don't get it.

Venom

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Nothing I've seen come out of it yet has looked particularly novel nor done anything to pique my interest. I haven't seen any new types of game mechanics that were compelling and couldn't have been achieved without a VR headset.

Agreed, for all the talk about about the Rift or Vive or PS whatever, the one thing thats gets left out of the conversation every time is the games that will make the experience and the cost worthwhile?

Lots of developers have popped out of the woodwork to sell VR tech demos but until there are a couple of proper VR only games that are must haves, I don't see VR becoming the mainstream.

TerrorFirmer

Not at all, VR is not for everyone, but there's a big difference between having tried it and being 'meh' about the general platform due to the limited availability of material or cumbersome nature of the setup..... and outright dismissing it, without having tried it at all, by claiming it adds nothing new and comparing to a niche motion controller or flight stick.

Arguing that VR adds nothing that couldn't have been achieved without VR is like arguing that a TV adds nothing that couldn't be achieved on a radio. The added dimensions - sight/visual and being 'in' a game respectively - are incomparable to any derivative of what preceded them.

RasTa

I thought I added I wouldn't pay €400 for one after playing it yesterday.

http://www.smythstoys.com/ie/en-ie/video-games-tablets/c-747/playstation-4/p-17395/playstation-vr/

Still more stuff to buy too, not sure why they didn't bundle everything in as it seems a bit messy.

Zillah

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Arguing that VR adds nothing that couldn't have been achieved without VR is like arguing that a TV adds nothing that couldn't be achieved on a radio.

This is perfectly accurate. Like, throwing knives with your own hands in Budget Cuts, or hurling enemies around with telekinetic powers in Raw Data is something that never existed in gaming before.

You don't have to like it but these comments about it doing nothing that hasn't been done before are absurd.

The one thing I'll say is that having to purchase the PS Camera, which, as far as I can tell, is essential to it working, separate seems a bit short sighted on their part. Not sure why they didn't just bundle it.

Maximus Alexander

Zillah wrote: »

I'm honestly not just being combative, and this is not meant to sound like a hostile put-down, but: you literally don't know what you're talking about. You are speaking from a position of ignorance. You really don't get it.

Try the Budget Cuts demo on a Vive, or play through Forgotten Realms, or shoot a bunch of cartoon dudes attacking your castle with arrows in Valve's The Lab, and you will understand why what you're saying above is based in ignorance.

You're entitled to not like it, of course, but that's only possible after you try it. The sort of comments like you make above are only possible if you simply don't get it.

No, you don't get it. You're doing that thing that's so common among any population of fans, where you get defensive when someone isn't as wowed as you are by the object of your fanaticism. You literally cannot seem to grasp that someone who has tried a Vive just wasn't impressed by it, or compelled to go and purchase one so that they could use it some more.

I found nothing in The Lab, for example, that actually required the headset to achieve. Things like the Longbow, for example, were available for the failed tech that was Playstation Move. The only addition is 3D screen with a wide FOV.

Venom

Deleted User wrote: »

The one thing I'll say is that having to purchase the PS Camera, which, as far as I can tell, is essential to it working, separate seems a bit short sighted on their part. Not sure why they didn't just bundle it.

That and the controllers knock the price up to the 500-600 quid mark and ruin the PR vibe of it costing the same as the console.

Venom

Venom wrote: »

That and the controllers knock the price up to the 500-600 quid mark and ruin the PR vibe of it costing the same as the console.

Do you need to purchase the controllers as well? I mean, could you use the bog standard PS4 ones?

Zillah

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I found nothing in The Lab, for example, that actually required the headset to achieve. Things like the Longbow, for example, were available for the failed tech that was Playstation Move. The only addition is 3D screen with a wide FOV.

The only addition was a head-mounted stereoscopic 3D display with sub-millimeter tracking in a full room space and accurate hand controller tracking that blows something like Playstation Move out of the water.

As I said you don't have to enjoy it but you seem adamant to misrepresent how fundamentally different the experience is to anything else available in gaming. You call me a fanatic but it's you that seems to have the weird prejudice.

Dyr

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

And that's the kind of statement you hear from penniless people outside the betting shop.

Many of us, having bought into Kinect, Mega CD, 32X, Move and heaven knows how many other high priced peripherals on console are too aware that they fail more often than they succeed.

Y'see I didn't buy into any of them because I'm not a console user. But I've been playing computer games since pong and as far as I'm concerned VR/AR is the paradigm shift that will move games and everything else off the screens they've existed on up until now

I've no idea what sony have come up with but comparing VR to a Kinect is daft. It's not a peripheral, it's making the window that we viewed games and everything else through obsolete

um7y1h83ge06nx

They probably didn't include the camera as some PS4 owners may have it already.

I haven't tried any VR yet, very eager to so I can make my own mind up. Until then I'm not going to buy any VR solution, I don't want to buy the modern equivalent of a Sega CD or 32x.

Be interesting to see how things go.

With the PS4/Slim, PS4 Pro and PS VR Sony are really fragmenting their Playstation user base, not sure I like that.

Maximus Alexander

Zillah wrote: »

The only addition was a head-mounted stereoscopic 3D display with sub-millimeter tracking in a full room space and accurate hand controller tracking that blows something like Playstation Move out of the water.

As I said you don't have to enjoy it but you seem adamant to misrepresent how fundamentally different the experience is to anything else available in gaming. You call me a fanatic but it's you that seems to have the weird prejudice.

I don't know where that's coming from. I came into a thread where people are casually discussing their opinions of VR and added mine, which was a fairly laid back "I'm not that interested and it doesn't seem to do much new". Which was apparently enough to get your back up.

Me not subscribing to the cult of VR is not going to cause anyone to call around and take yours from you, you can relax.

RasTa

Cheeky...

http://www.adverts.ie/playstation/playstation-vr-new-in-box/11546969

Retr0gamer

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

You need to try out VR before you dismiss it, really.

This here is far more of a major problem than people realise for VR. Nintendo's virtual boy suffered from this. The system is a total joke to most people but anyone that I've made try my virtual boy has been impressed by how good the 3D is and wonder how it did so badly. One of the main reasons is you can't show off how good it is unless you try it. That's something VR is going to suffer from and with a lot of peoples fear of looking like a twat or just a fear of something new it's going to take a lot of work to convince people, a lot more than a pop up shop in Dublin.

Deleted User wrote: »

But not everyone can afford the nearly €3,000 that you're going to have to sink into the oculus or the vive.

The PS4 is €400, the PSVR is €400 (with the €50/€100 - can't remember which - for the camera). That still works at €850-€900 for the lot.

Plus, realistically, a lot of people would already own a PS4.

Admittedly it won't be the same levels of the previous two, but, from what I've heard, still pretty decent for what you're paying.

It's nothing to do with price. The PSVR is the best option but developers really are not going to be targeting the PS VR, the same way developers did not target the likes of the Mega CD or 32X. A smaller userbase means less people to sell to. It's not the right environment for VR at the moment. Also it's not like you can make a regular game and tack VR on, you really need to make your game for VR from scratch.

And that's why PC is a much better environment. the open nature means you'll have fan mods and patches and non-professional demos taking advantage of the hardware, projects that require little to no financial overheads.

Canis Lupus

I've tried VR. Thought it was great. However as I've also stated in other threads there's literally zero chance of me gaming with one. I'm not coming home from work, sitting down in front of the pc and putting a VR headset on my head.... Just won't. My GF would probably leave me and I'd be forever knocking over my vodka and coke.

Skatedude

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Nothing I've seen come out of it yet has looked particularly novel nor done anything to pique my interest. I haven't seen any new types of game mechanics that were compelling and couldn't have been achieved without a VR headset. It's just a new type of screen like, but one that makes some genres unplayable and requires you to wear a helmet. I can see how it adds marginal utility to things like simulators and motor racing games, but I'm not a particular fan of either genre.

I'm cool with you being excited about it like, I'm just not. I wouldn't see it as much different than a niche peripheral like a flight stick or driving wheel. Each to their own.

Thats like saying, I saw some people having sex and dosent look like fun.

Riesen_Meal

I have an appointment at the weekend to have a gander, I've only done the first incarnation of VR probably over 20 years ago, we had a machine in the arcade I used to work in, it was terrible...

I'm completely open minded to giving it a go but I'm sure if I was to get it, I'll probably go and get the Vive...

Sephiroth_dude

Deleted User wrote: »

But not everyone can afford the nearly €3,000 that you're going to have to sink into the oculus or the vive.

The PS4 is €400, the PSVR is €400 (with the €50/€100 - can't remember which - for the camera). That still works at €850-€900 for the lot.

Plus, realistically, a lot of people would already own a PS4.

Admittedly it won't be the same levels of the previous two, but, from what I've heard, still pretty decent for what you're paying.

Well I don't have that kind of money either but I would try and save with the hope of eventually getting it, not that I'm planning or will be able to get one anytime soon.

I persume the 3000 figure includes a new p.c capable of running one of these devices?