Journalism and cycling

magicbastarder

not sure if this was posted before:

Can Videos from Cyclists be Used to Tackle Dangerous Driving?
https://www.dublininquirer.com/2018/10/24/can-videos-from-cyclists-be-used-to-tackle-dangerous-driving

interesting to note the differing level of concern between the gardai and the police in the UK about the worries over video being doctored.

Muahahaha

The whole camera/dash cam and Gardai thing here is strange. They regularly ask for dash cam footage to help solve a crime but the courts don't seem to allow it as evidence or at least I havent heard of it happening.

There was a time years back when CCTV wasn't accepted as evidence but all that has changed. Hopefully cycle camera and dash cam footage will be accepted at some stage in the near future.

Tell me how

Muahahaha wrote: »

The whole camera/dash cam and Gardai thing here is strange. They regularly ask for dash cam footage to help solve a crime but the courts don't seem to allow it as evidence or at least I havent heard of it happening.

There was a time years back when CCTV wasn't accepted as evidence but all that has changed. Hopefully cycle camera and dash cam footage will be accepted at some stage in the near future.

It's an area that needs looking at and the development of guidelines or legislation around it.

I wonder where does GDPR lie in this respect. For example, someone knocks you off the bike, you point out your camera caught them approaching at speed and hitting you. They request that you delete the footage as they did not give consent to be videoed.

Maybe irrelevant given it is a public space and so on but there is huge scope for different interpretations in this area.

magicbastarder

i'm sure a lot of you are familiar with them, but dublin inquirer certainly are a very cyclist friendly bunch.

Cyclists Say a Deadly Junction in East Wall Remains Dangerous
https://www.dublininquirer.com/2019/01/23/cyclists-say-a-deadly-junction-in-east-wall-remains-dangerous

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

It's an area that needs looking at and the development of guidelines or legislation around it.

I wonder where does GDPR lie in this respect. For example, someone knocks you off the bike, you point out your camera caught them approaching at speed and hitting you. They request that you delete the footage as they did not give consent to be videoed.

Maybe irrelevant given it is a public space and so on but there is huge scope for different interpretations in this area.

I'm pretty confident that you can film in a public place without consent here otherwise for example in the near miss thread today people wouldn't be getting usb sticks of footage from Dublin bus under foi and any street facing cctv would be usless, but not so sure about whether someone in their car could claim they are in private space or not in the eyes of the law? Unlikely.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm sure a lot of you are familiar with them, but dublin inquirer certainly are a very cyclist friendly bunch.

Cyclists Say a Deadly Junction in East Wall Remains Dangerous
https://www.dublininquirer.com/2019/01/23/cyclists-say-a-deadly-junction-in-east-wall-remains-dangerous

They had a collision tracker as well a few years back I see https://www.dublininquirer.com/2015/10/21/bicycle-collision-tracker-identifying-dangerous-intersections which could be useful for certain bodies

Hurrache

Live Drive have started adding cycling related info to their tweets.
https://twitter.com/LiveDrive/status/1088351726892183552?s=19
https://twitter.com/LiveDrive/status/1088351068973658112?s=19

What Username Guidelines

Hurrache wrote: »

Live Drive have started adding cycling related info to their tweets.

Infuriating that those pesky cyclists travelling six times faster than I are slowing me down and getting in my way :pac::pac:

jjpep

Hurrache wrote: »

Live Drive have started adding cycling related info to their tweets.
https://twitter.com/LiveDrive/status/1088351726892183552?s=19
https://twitter.com/LiveDrive/status/1088351068973658112?s=19

That's really positive. It was something similar that got me cycling in the first place.

Seth Brundle

Hurrache wrote: »

Live Drive have started adding cycling related info to their tweets.
https://twitter.com/LiveDrive/status/1088351726892183552?s=19
https://twitter.com/LiveDrive/status/1088351068973658112?s=19

That'll be helpful to those people looking at the Live Drive twitter feed whilst sitting in their cars.

I wonder if they make the same claims in their radio announcements.

07Lapierre

jjpep wrote: »

That's really positive. It was something similar that got me cycling in the first place.

It seems to be the ONLY positive!... every other tweet is about delays, roadworks et.etc.

Hurrache

Seth Brundle wrote: »

That'll be helpful to those people looking at the Live Drive twitter feed whilst sitting in their cars.

I wonder if they make the same claims in their radio announcements.

I usually check their tweets out before I've to take a drive somewhere cross city, or before my wife leaves her office to come home. I was listening to the station for a bit this morning but tuned out when they got to the traffic part so don't know if they mention it.

Still, it's a good idea, really hammers home to those that have a relatively short commute in the city how much time they're wasting.

Macy0161

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I wonder if they make the same claims in their radio announcements.

I'd have live drive on if I'm commuting by car or by bike (I drive so far and commute). I haven't noticed them say it so far tbh. It's run out Traffic control - pity they wouldn't flash up bike journey times on the car park info boards like they have opposite RTE.

mr spuckler

Muahahaha wrote: »

The whole camera/dash cam and Gardai thing here is strange. They regularly ask for dash cam footage to help solve a crime but the courts don't seem to allow it as evidence or at least I havent heard of it happening.

There was a time years back when CCTV wasn't accepted as evidence but all that has changed. Hopefully cycle camera and dash cam footage will be accepted at some stage in the near future.

I don't know about that - I submitted camera footage of a collision that I witnessed, no problem with accepting it and it was offered in court for evidence in the careless driving charge which followed. there wasn't a question for a second of it not being allowed or it being challenged, either by the Garda or the defence.

now, that Garda used to race himself so maybe he was more amenable than others but the judge / defence barrister had no issue with it. so I wonder is there really a concern about the legality / admissibility at all, or is it just a smokescreen to avoid the hassle. I suspect the latter.

RobbieMD

mr spuckler wrote: »

I don't know about that - I submitted camera footage of a collision that I witnessed, no problem with accepting it and it was offered in court for evidence in the careless driving charge which followed. there wasn't a question for a second of it not being allowed or it being challenged, either by the Garda or the defence.

now, that Garda used to race himself so maybe he was more amenable than others but the judge / defence barrister had no issue with it. so I wonder is there really a concern about the legality / admissibility at all, or is it just a smokescreen to avoid the hassle. I suspect the latter.

Did the defendant plead guilty or take a hearing? Were you crossed examined by the defence?

mr spuckler

RobbieMD wrote: »

Did the defendant plead guilty or take a hearing? Were you crossed examined by the defence?

it was one of those court sittings where loads of cases are called for mention. I happened to be sat beside the defendant so heard her entire conversation with her barrister.
she came to court planning to plead guilty, to her credit. he then tried to discourage her from doing so, saying that they could file for discovery of the video footage, which was the only evidence in the case as the victim didn't report it. his reasoning to her was that she could review it to ensure it tallied with her recollection, so that at least she could be fully ok with her plea. not once did he suggest anything potentially untoward about the video.
when the Garda was called before the judge he referenced the video evidence. bearing in mind then that the victim didn't report it, the judge happily suggested in response in front of court that perhaps the reason she didn't report it was because she was a foreign national living here illegally. she wasn't.
the driver pleaded guilty.

so I can't say with 100% confidence that the veracity of the video wouldn't have been challenged further if it went to trial but I can say that at no point when I was involved with the process did anybody even begin to suggest that it might not stand up as evidence.

edit to say I provided the Garda with the full unedited files as well as the trimmed down version which I'll upload here later if I get the chance.

RobbieMD

mr spuckler wrote: »

it was one of those court sittings where loads of cases are called for mention. I happened to be sat beside the defendant so heard her entire conversation with her barrister.
she came to court planning to plead guilty, to her credit. he then tried to discourage her from doing so, saying that they could file for discovery of the video footage, which was the only evidence in the case as the victim didn't report it. his reasoning to her was that she could review it to ensure it tallied with her recollection, so that at least she could be fully ok with her plea. not once did he suggest anything potentially untoward about the video.
when the Garda was called before the judge he referenced the video evidence. bearing in mind then that the victim didn't report it, the judge happily suggested in response in front of court that perhaps the reason she didn't report it was because she was a foreign national living here illegally. she wasn't.
the driver pleaded guilty.

so I can't say with 100% confidence that the veracity of the video wouldn't have been challenged further if it went to trial but I can say that at no point when I was involved with the process did anybody even begin to suggest that it might not stand up as evidence.

edit to say I provided the Garda with the full unedited files as well as the trimmed down version which I'll upload here later if I get the chance.

Fair play to you. I suppose when it’s a guilty plea no evidence is examined. It’s all accepted by the defence. Court only really gets interesting for the hearings.

mr spuckler

RobbieMD wrote: »

Fair play to you. I suppose when it’s a guilty plea no evidence is examined. It’s all accepted by the defence. Court only really gets interesting for the hearings.

bear in mind though in the context of the discussion in this thread - the Garda had no issues whatsoever accepting the evidence. compare and contrast that against oft stated Garda policy wrt cyclists using video evidence in complaints.

RobbieMD

mr spuckler wrote: »

bear in mind though in the context of the discussion in this thread - the Garda had no issues whatsoever accepting the evidence. compare and contrast that against oft stated Garda policy wrt cyclists using video evidence in complaints.

I was more so saying fair play to you going to court on a date that wasn’t a hearing date. My experience is that often when it comes to a hearing and people taking a day off work or whatever, they can be reluctant to attend, of course, that’s bypassed with a witness summons that compels them to attend. Either way, fair play to you going through with it all.

magicbastarder

morning ireland are due to cover the galway cycle bus this morning - so some time in the next half hour, i assume.

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1088708760091217920

Pinch Flat

My incdent I reported to Gardai this week they asked if I had video footage - had my laptop with me and had just copied the video to the hard drive. They asked if I’d be prepared to pop it on a usb and give it to them as evidence If they decide to press charges

Corca Baiscinn

magicbastarder wrote: »

morning ireland are due to cover the galway cycle bus this morning - so some time in the next half hour, i assume.

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1088708760091217920

There's video footage on twitter now too so hopefully some TV coverage as well. Despite the fact that it shouldn't be at all remarkable it would lift your spirits to see all those kids pedalling along in such a communal way, getting to school under their own steam, so it will be super for a wider audience to see it and even better if they arrange a special screening for Richard Bruton, Shane Ross and Joe McHugh!

jjpep

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

There's video footage on twitter now too so hopefully some TV coverage as well. Despite the fact that it shouldn't be at all remarkable it would lift your spirits to see all those kids pedalling along in such a communal way, getting to school under their own steam, so it will be super for a wider audience to see it and even better if they arrange a special screening for Richard Bruton, Shane Ross and Joe McHugh!

Yep, that's the thing. Kids (and their parents) feeling that it's safe to cycle to school should be ordinary, not extraordinary. The cycle bus is doing great work - hopefully it'll spur action among our politicians to make this kind of thing the norm, but without the need for kids to need adults to shepherd them.

Melodeon

Galway Cycle Bus item coming up now on RTE 1, Six One News.

Thought that car that was turning left was a bit too keen to get going, rear marshal hadn't fully cleared the junction.

AndrewJRenko

mr spuckler wrote: »

it was one of those court sittings where loads of cases are called for mention. I happened to be sat beside the defendant so heard her entire conversation with her barrister.

No criticism of yourself, but couldn't the earwigging have spoilt the whole case, if it had proceeded and you had to give evidence? It's a bit mad that these things are allowed happen, and you're not segregated in some way, but I know the Courts tend to be very short of space.



But what happens if the other party or their barrister says that 'this man may have overheard our consultation' or similar?

mr spuckler

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No criticism of yourself, but couldn't the earwigging have spoilt the whole case, if it had proceeded and you had to give evidence? It's a bit mad that these things are allowed happen, and you're not segregated in some way, but I know the Courts tend to be very short of space.



But what happens if the other party or their barrister says that 'this man may have overheard our consultation' or similar?

I know what you;re getting at but I can't imagine how it would - my evidence wouldn't and indeed couldn't have been in any way different owing to that conversation. I'd already given a written statement to the Garda before the charge was filed so any court evidence would essentially have been a re-iteration of that.

RobbieMD

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No criticism of yourself, but couldn't the earwigging have spoilt the whole case, if it had proceeded and you had to give evidence? It's a bit mad that these things are allowed happen, and you're not segregated in some way, but I know the Courts tend to be very short of space.



But what happens if the other party or their barrister says that 'this man may have overheard our consultation' or similar?

Often in a hearing the defence will request that all witnesses, except whoever is then actually giving evidence, remain outside the courtroom so as not to hear each other’s evidence.

I’ve seen the defence raise with the judge exactly what you’re talking about, the witness is then cross examined when in the box and the judge can afford it whatever weight he/she thinks.

magicbastarder

Uber's plan to deploy stationless e-bikes in Dublin has been rebuffed by officials
https://www.thejournal.ie/uber-stationless-bikes-2-4457359-Jan2019/

mr spuckler

RobbieMD wrote: »

Often in a hearing the defence will request that all witnesses, except whoever is then actually giving evidence, remain outside the courtroom so as not to hear each other’s evidence.

I’ve seen the defence raise with the judge exactly what you’re talking about, the witness is then cross examined when in the box and the judge can afford it whatever weight he/she thinks.

which sounds reasonable at a trial and I'd have expected that to be the case if we had been. we weren't at a trial.