High Noon with George Hook.

pilly

Deleted User wrote: »

Do people here leave money, in full view, on the passenger seat of their car, when walking away from the car?

If you do not, care to explain why? I mean it would not be your fault if it were stolen (this is not sarcasm) and you should be free to do so.

Yes because that's exactly the same thing that happened. :rolleyes:

Bazzy

Bazzy wrote: »

But do you blame me on the glass being clear?


If the glass wasnt clear you wouldnt be able to see the money

you can see through the windows of every car so is it my fault the windows are clear?

Do you leave money in full view, in the car?

John_D80

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

George may have been lucky that Noirin O Sullivan resigned this weekend and the full focus is not on him ,his apology did compound his error but would have been forced on him .He has sounded strained on the show and but if he can drag it out till the end of the week may survive, if he wants to by that point.

Considering one is an opinionated radio host and one is the most senior officer in a police force that has been hit by scandal after scandal, I would have thought it was the other way around and O'Sullivan was the lucky one that Hook deflected so much of the attention from her.

chicken foot

pilly wrote: »

Yes because that's exactly the same thing that happened. :rolleyes:

It comes back to the ingrained notion by some that women are possessions. Of course if you wear a skirt you're asking for it. This is his belief, hard to say otherwise from that crap analogy he just posted. I sincerely hope that none of his possessions are ever sexually assaulted, they'll find themselves being interrogated first to make sure they didn't contribute to the sex attack.
FFS, i despair of the world sometimes.

tayto lover

George now knows how the Garda Commissioner must feel and she said nothing at all.
The smell of blood entices the sharks.

pilly

pilly wrote: »

Yes because that's exactly the same thing that happened. :rolleyes:

It's about risk.
You lock your doors and windows, avoid dodgy parts of town, lock your car etc. We live in a world where scum and evil prey on easy targets, it's not fair and it is not a victim's fault but that is the world.

Saying that people should take care is not victim blaming, it's trying to prevent people becoming victims

chicken foot

chicken foot wrote: »

It comes back to the ingrained notion by some that women are possessions. Of course if you wear a skirt you're asking for it. This is his belief, hard to say otherwise from that crap analogy he just posted. I sincerely hope that none of his possessions are ever sexually assaulted, they'll find themselves being interrogated first to make sure they didn't contribute to the sex attack.
FFS, i despair of the world sometimes.

Total bollocks. Rapists are not normal people, they are predators who prey on what they see as vulnerable targets.

You are the one who stating that telling people to take care equates to possession.

Would you say that advising someone to avoid a particular part of a city, to prevent being robbed, is a possessive thing?

Would you leave money in the car, and if not then why?

chicken foot

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's about risk.
You lock your doors and windows, avoid dodgy parts of town, lock your car etc. We live in a world where scum and evil prey on easy targets, it's not fair and it is not a victim's fault but that is the world.

Saying that people should take care is not victim blaming, it's trying to prevent people becoming victims

We are all fully aware of protecting ourselves, people have one night stands all the time without being raped!
Tell me now how this girl went wrong? In your opinion. G Hook seemed to think she was wrong to be surprised that she was raped, do you agree?
By all accounts the guy she went back with didn't rape her, his friend did. How the **** do you protect against that!!

optogirl

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Total bollocks. Rapists are not normal people, they are predators who prey on what they see as vulnerable targets.

You are the one who stating that telling people to take care equates to possession.

Would you say that advising someone to avoid a particular part of a city, to prevent being robbed, is a possessive thing?

Would you leave money in the car, and if not then why?

Is having a one night stand comparable with leaving your possessions in plain sight? She has every right to have a one night stand without stopping to think that a second man was going to come along and rape her. I find it hard to believe that none of the people supporting Hook's statement have ever had a one night stand/gone a to a party in a house they don't know very well/gone for a jog/gone camping or any similar reasonable things that have a risk factor, and have accepted that a rape might be a result. Again, he asked if some of the BLAME should lie with her. He asked if she should be surprised that it happened.

GeorgeBailey

Vorenus400 wrote: »

Am I alone in thinking that Dr Ciara and George arranged the ear lashing he got from her. Both their career reputations were on the line. She needs to be seen to give out to him and he needs to publicly be seen to get an earful. People did feel sorry for George after Mondays health check. The fact that she didnt tweet or publicly say anything up to Monday would give credence to this.

I would absolutely expect this is the case. Pre-agreed before they went on air that she'd give out and then give the rape crisis centre number.

chicken foot

chicken foot wrote: »

We are all fully aware of protecting ourselves, people have one night stands all the time without being raped!
Tell me now how this girl went wrong? In your opinion. G Hook seemed to think she was wrong to be surprised that she was raped, do you agree?
By all accounts the guy she went back with didn't rape her, his friend did. How the **** do you protect against that!!

Perhaps you can not, but it is a risk which people (all people) need to weigh up.
She went home to a house with people she didn't know in it. It's not her fault that there was an animal there but there is an increased risk and it's not unheard of.

As I said earlier, the woman has no blame or fault. That completely is with the animal who attacked her. We can not remove risk, as long as people like that exist there will always be targets, all we can do is mitigate or weigh up the risks.

Have you ever told someone "Stay safe" as they head out for the night? You would not blame them if something happened but would hope that they can avoid horrid situations, that is not you being possessive of them just urging them to take care

optogirl

optogirl wrote: »

Is having a one night stand comparable with leaving your possessions in plain sight? She has every right to have a one night stand without stopping to think that a second man was going to come along and rape her. I find it hard to believe that none of the people supporting Hook's statement have ever had a one night stand/gone a to a party in a house they don't know very well/gone for a jog/gone camping or any similar reasonable things that have a risk factor, and have accepted that a rape might be a result. Again, he asked if some of the BLAME should lie with her. He asked if she should be surprised that it happened.

I HAVE gone walking through the city on my own and have had a bottle smashed across my head and them attempt to steal my jacket and wallet.
I am 6ft1 and 250 lbs, not a typical easy target but made myself into one by strolling through town at 3am drunk, it damn well was not my fault but I was lucky that a few stitches was all I needed. It could have been much worse

quintana76

mikep wrote: »

Are you referring to Hook here?
It will all depend on the procedures in place..likewise for those who started the letter thing..

I was not referring to Hook. I was referring to his leading attempted assassin.

Obvious Otter

optogirl wrote: »

Is having a one night stand comparable with leaving your possessions in plain sight? She has every right to have a one night stand without stopping to think that a second man was going to come along and rape her. I find it hard to believe that none of the people supporting Hook's statement have ever had a one night stand/gone a to a party in a house they don't know very well/gone for a jog/gone camping or any similar reasonable things that have a risk factor, and have accepted that a rape might be a result. Again, he asked if some of the BLAME should lie with her. He asked if she should be surprised that it happened.

Having a one night stand with someone carries risk. Was she vigilant and did she protect herself by not engaging in sexual activity with someone she didn't really know? No, but that doesn't mean that it's her fault.

Why can't we set an example for younger women by telling them to not engage in sexual activity with someone they don't know?

Bunny Colvin

I've read the last few pages and it is good to see that most posters are supporting George. I really don't have a problem with what he said, it's a touchy subject but even still, the backlash has been sickening.

I really hate the type of people that would throw a strop over this. Hopefully George can hang tight but given his age and circumstances, I'd walk if I was him. He doesn't need to deal with this nonsense anymore.

maxwell smart

Chelsea Miniature Somehow wrote: »

He has some antiquated views on rape/women that have no place in a modern society.
He has created up fear uncertainty and doubt about HPV vaccine that will result unnecessary deaths down the line.
He has had an Islamophobic leaning going back god knows how long.

You may not agree with me on on the above but I hope you'll see why some of us don't think he's a good person.

On point 1 - his comments can be interpreted in a couple of ways, either he is as you stated or he didn't get his point across.
On point 2 - Yes, but isn't he simply voicing concerns that quite a few parents (judging by the drop in vaccine uptake) have? Isn't that what he (and even Joe Duffy to an extent) are there for? Voices for the voiceless? You could say that his voicing of these concerns have pushed the HSE into action to get the message across.
On point 3 - I would agree with you here, but you might be surprised how many people in Ireland agree with his view point.

So I'm wondering, should everyone who has an alternative view point be taken off the radio / TV?
For example, Gerry Adams and a lot of the people in Sinn Fein. Some would consider they push an agenda that is very insulting to many people on this island. They have (directly or indirectly) contributed to real actual deaths on this island.
Should their voice be banned from the airwaves?

Obvious Otter

Obvious Otter wrote: »

Having a one night stand with someone carries risk. Was she vigilant and did she protect herself by not engaging in sexual activity with someone she didn't really know? No, but that doesn't mean that it's her fault.

Why can't we set an example for younger women by telling them to not engage in sexual activity with someone they don't know?

You can not TELL a person who they can and can not have sex with, that is totally their choice if both (or more) consent.

You can point out risks involved and let them make their own decisions.

The Specialist

optogirl wrote: »

Is having a one night stand comparable with leaving your possessions in plain sight? She has every right to have a one night stand without stopping to think that a second man was going to come along and rape her. I find it hard to believe that none of the people supporting Hook's statement have ever had a one night stand/gone a to a party in a house they don't know very well/gone for a jog/gone camping or any similar reasonable things that have a risk factor, and have accepted that a rape might be a result. Again, he asked if some of the BLAME should lie with her. He asked if she should be surprised that it happened.

I think the biggest issue here is that expressing any sort of opinion or thought on rape is taboo, even if there is no malice behind the words.

Let me ask you this -I go to town for a night out and end up wandering to a bad street where I get the head kicked off me. I didn't have any intention of being assaulted but it happened. Now granted the attacker is a piece of ****,and I have "every right" to enjoy my night without a scenario like that, but bad things happen and there is some personal responsibility to say "maybe this is not a good idea".

From this ****storm George is in, it would appear that anybody even questioning me as to why I went to that part of town would be "victim blaming" me -even though it's a perfectly normal human trait to question what the circumstances were that allowed it to happen, and if I was 100% in my right mind to know the dangers.

blue note

It's frustrating that the media consensus seems to be that it's just men online who are in support of what George said.

Firstly, very few support what he said. The vast majority of people posting here acknowledge that an apology was appropriate for what he said.

And secondly, almost entirely men? I think a lot of the people calling this reaction ridiculous are women. And looking at the comments after articles on it on facebook an awful lot of those people are women.

Are they blind in their reading of who is supporting George or are they willfully ignoring the women supporting him? It reminds me a lot of hearing that Trump was voted into power by straight white men. Even though the majority of white women voted him in as well.

bottlebrush

optogirl wrote: »

Is having a one night stand comparable with leaving your possessions in plain sight? She has every right to have a one night stand without stopping to think that a second man was going to come along and rape her. I find it hard to believe that none of the people supporting Hook's statement have ever had a one night stand/gone a to a party in a house they don't know very well/gone for a jog/gone camping or any similar reasonable things that have a risk factor, and have accepted that a rape might be a result. Again, he asked if some of the BLAME should lie with her. He asked if she should be surprised that it happened.

The same way that I have every right to go away and leave my house unlocked and expect that all will be OK when I return. Burglars exist. Fact. Murderers exist. Fact. Rapists exist. Fact. I will lock up my house and put on the alarm before I leave it so as to reduce the risk of it being burgled. If you don't want to be that woman who is going to be raped, then reduce your risk. I am a woman and my sisters and female friends perfectly understand what George was getting at and don't understand the fuss. If he has to go over this we will be voting with our fingers and moving the dial.

bottlebrush

bottlebrush wrote: »

The same way that I have every right to go away and leave my house unlocked and expect that all will be OK when I return. Burglars exist. Fact. Murderers exist. Fact. Rapists exist. Fact. I will lock up my house and put on the alarm before I leave it so as to reduce the risk of it being burgled. If you don't want to be that woman who is going to be raped, then reduce your risk. I am a woman and my sisters and female friends perfectly understand what George was getting it and don't understand the fuss. If he has to go over this we will be voting with our fingers and moving the dial.

It's such common bloody sense what you are saying!!

Mental that you have to qualify with "I'm a woman" otherwise you prob get the same snark that I have been getting!

PeterTheNinth

bottlebrush wrote: »

I am a woman and my sisters and female friends perfectly understand what George was getting at and don't understand the fuss.

But I think this is where the disconnect is... I think there is a huge difference with the opinions that are expressed on liberal radio stations, and the opinions that are expressed around the average dinner table. In a similar way to the way there was a huge disconnect between the liberal media in the US and the actual voters. The media here is no longer a balanced representation of the views of the average Irish people. There is only one view welcome in the media, and if you don't subscribe to those views then you will be immediately vilified and there will be Twitter campaigns, Facebook campaigns, bullying through whatever means they have available to him.

reg114

bottlebrush wrote: »

The same way that I have every right to go away and leave my house unlocked and expect that all will be OK when I return. Burglars exist. Fact. Murderers exist. Fact. Rapists exist. Fact. I will lock up my house and put on the alarm before I leave it so as to reduce the risk of it being burgled. If you don't want to be that woman who is going to be raped, then reduce your risk. I am a woman and my sisters and female friends perfectly understand what George was getting at and don't understand the fuss. If he has to go over this we will be voting with our fingers and moving the dial.

Being a woman doesnt validate your argument one bit. By your logic the rape victim divested herself of personal responsibility the minute she left her house. 99% of the population have had a one night stand, does that mean everyone is fair game for blame if they come to harm?

A woman should be able to go home with a guy on the first night and not be lynched because of it. As usual the focus in all f this is solely on the victim, the rapist seems peripheral to the discussion. Why? Why didnt Hook analyse the rapists depravity? Why didnt he ask what kind of human being is capable of defiling another? Blaming the victim, who is generally a woman, is a societal tradition and its repulsive, but more so when its a woman blaming another woman.

DeanAustin

blue note wrote: »

It's frustrating that the media consensus seems to be that it's just men online who are in support of what George said.

Firstly, very few support what he said. The vast majority of people posting here acknowledge that an apology was appropriate for what he said.

And secondly, almost entirely men? I think a lot of the people calling this reaction ridiculous are women. And looking at the comments after articles on it on facebook an awful lot of those people are women.

Are they blind in their reading of who is supporting George or are they willfully ignoring the women supporting him? It reminds me a lot of hearing that Trump was voted into power by straight white men. Even though the majority of white women voted him in as well.

There is little room for nuance when dealing with the wider population. That's why the narrative is kept very simple and in black and white terms.

The rise of social media as a source of news is contributing to this hugely because people are having the news tailored to suit their view of the world and confirm their prejudices and biases. To compete, the mainstream media are simplifying their narrative. Also, the concentration of media ownership is accentuating the problem.

It's dangerous because any deviation from the narrow allowable opinions results in people being vilified and hounded out of the public eye and their jobs.

reg114

reg114 wrote: »

Being a woman doesnt validate your argument one bit. By your logic the rape victim divested herself of personal responsibility the minute she left her house. 99% of the population have had a one night stand, does that mean everyone is fair game for blame if they come to harm?

A woman should be able to go home with a guy on the first night and not be lynched because of it. As usual the focus in all f this is solely on the victim, the rapist seems peripheral to the discussion. Why? Why didnt Hook analyse the rapists depravity? Why didnt he ask what kind of human being is capable of defiling another? Blaming the victim, who is generally a woman, is a societal tradition and its repulsive, but more so when its a woman blaming another woman.

And where is she saying that it's the victim's fault?

I suppose you don't lock your door leaving the house?

This kind of hyperbolic crap is symptomatic of "arguments" nowdays

DeanAustin

reg114 wrote: »

Being a woman doesnt validate your argument one bit. By your logic the rape victim divested herself of personal responsibility the minute she left her house. 99% of the population have had a one night stand, does that mean everyone is fair game for blame if they come to harm?

A woman should be able to go home with a guy on the first night and not be lynched because of it. As usual the focus in all f this is solely on the victim, the rapist seems peripheral to the discussion. Why? Why didnt Hook analyse the rapists depravity? Why didnt he ask what kind of human being is capable of defiling another? Blaming the victim, who is generally a woman, is a societal tradition and its repulsive, but more so when its a woman blaming another woman.

Hook condemned the alleged rapist if you actually read the quotes.

And as side note, the fella hasn't even been convicted of rape.

PeterTheNinth

I actually don't think it's gonna be possible for Hook to do the job properly now. He's gonna be on edge all the time in case he offends somebody, and this will make his impotent with regard to asking the tough questions. I think he's probably going to have to leave... He might be better just stepping away.

bottlebrush

reg114 wrote: »

Being a woman doesnt validate your argument one bit. By your logic the rape victim divested herself of personal responsibility the minute she left her house. 99% of the population have had a one night stand, does that mean everyone is fair game for blame if they come to harm?

A woman should be able to go home with a guy on the first night and not be lynched because of it. As usual the focus in all f this is solely on the victim, the rapist seems peripheral to the discussion. Why? Why didnt Hook analyse the rapists depravity? Why didnt he ask what kind of human being is capable of defiling another? Blaming the victim, who is generally a woman, is a societal tradition and its repulsive, but more so when its a woman blaming another woman.

I am not blaming the woman. I totally agree with you. A woman should be able to go home with a guy on the first night and not be lynched because of it.

Snickers Man

Leave George Hook alone and bring back Jeremy Clarkson. Top Gear has got really ****e since they dumped him off it. In fact, I don't watch it any more.

Slightly off topic I know. Look I don't agree with everything George Hook says (or Clarkson for that matter) but I think the place will be poorer for their being marginalised.

Snickers Man

reg114 wrote: »

Being a woman doesnt validate your argument one bit. By your logic the rape victim divested herself of personal responsibility the minute she left her house. 99% of the population have had a one night stand, does that mean everyone is fair game for blame if they come to harm?

A woman should be able to go home with a guy on the first night and not be lynched because of it. As usual the focus in all f this is solely on the victim, the rapist seems peripheral to the discussion. Why? Why didnt Hook analyse the rapists depravity? Why didnt he ask what kind of human being is capable of defiling another? Blaming the victim, who is generally a woman, is a societal tradition and its repulsive, but more so when its a woman blaming another woman.

What rapist? At the time of writing, no rape has been proven to have taken place. Any statement to the effect that what transpired was in fact a rape is highly speculative and defamatory (to the male party in the case) I don't know the details of what went on other than the bare essentials that girl meets boy; girl has consensual sex with boy; girl meets other boy; they have sex. And there is a divergence of testimony as to whether it was consensual.

That's all anybody not familiar with the minutiae of the case or the trial knows. One can speculate away about the relative culpability of one party or the other. But one should really do so on the inside........