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Child Item

High Noon with George Hook.

kneemos

A full ten minutes to get to the Muslims,and now it's Rugby.Not much has changed.

Sounds in good form anyway.

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The Rape of Lucretia

Jorge Andrade wrote: »

Wanting a man sacked for simply giving his opinion which wasn't that bad shows the true colours of these nasty individuals.

Its even worse than that. Its wanting a man sacked for either wilfully misunderstanding what he said in order to press the misandry agenda ,or being dim enough to actually misunderstand what he said.
Its a kristallnacht moment for Ireland here.

Kerry_2008

chicken foot wrote: »

I know you think you're the boss calling people "snowflakes" but it's the equivalent of wearing a Dunce Hat - you're just highlighting the absolute level of your ignorance.

G Hook is an absolute knob jockey, his view of women has always been through a sexualised lens, should he be fired? I don't know,..perhaps spend a weekend at the RCC & see for himself.

I think people forget the absolute horror of Rape at times. Just imagine someone physically forcing themselves INTO YOU!! Men & Women alike should be able to conjour up the sheer brutality, force and viciousness needed for this to happen.

By agreeing with Hook, that you believe women shouldn't go home with a stranger, then you are placing yourself in the position of being a potential rapist too or you plan on never, ever having a one night stand yourself.

As for his comments re consent in a relationship, I can't even go there. I don't know any husband/partner who feels he can have sex with his wife whenever he sees fit.

When did I ever say I agreed with what G Hook said? I used the tern snowflakes in regards to Chris Donohue and the OTB lads as they go out of their way to be outraged. Mostly on innocuous topics. The OTB lads go out of their way to say how good looking a male guest is sometimes but, wouldn't dream of doing the same to a female guest as it wouldn't be PC.

Obviously this isn't an innocuous topic but, I was expressing a general sentiment as opposed to the topic at hand.

Sorry if I worded it poorly.

Den14

anna080 wrote:

Lady Chatterton I think you need to go over to After Hours (where George is getting a savaging) and repost what you have posted above. It's very enlightening.

Yes agreed it's a very well put together argument

Vorenus400

I wouldnt go over to after hours. Its all; thought police, snowflakes, Pol Pot, pc fascists and Stallinist Russia. Every side is outraged. Its like having 20 George Hooks on either side

retro:electro

Lady Chatterton I think you need to go over to After Hours (where George is getting a savaging) and repost what you have posted above. It's very enlightening.

DeadHand

optogirl wrote: »

I'm not saying that one person or persons has said both of these things at once but we get these conflicting messages all the time.

Right, so no one actually said any of the awful things you claimed to hear all the time.

Thought not.

You're inventing stuff to suit a narrative.

Lady Chatterton

I posted this comment yesterday on this thread.

I'm beginning to think that yesterdays' apology has backfired spectacularly on him, he would have been better off if he had clarified his remarks, making it 100% clear that rape is never the victims' fault and that his original intention was merely to encourage people to look out for themselves and their friends on a night out. I would say 85% of what he said was just old fashioned common sense, the stuff that lots of parents would say to their daughters and sons most weekends before they head into town.

Today, I am even more convinced that this witch hunt against George is not only unjust but it’s sinister.

Here is why –

On July 18th last, Pat Kenny carried a 25-minute item on his radio programme about the number of people presenting at Sexual Assault Units around the country.

Noeleen Blackwell, Chief Executive Officer of the DRCC and Dr. Maeve Eogan, Medical Director of the National Sexual Assault Treatment Unit in the Rotunda were invited on to discuss the findings of Rape Crisis Centres Annual Report (based on reports to Rape Crisis Centres in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Mullingar, Letterkenny & Waterford) the report found that nearly one in two people who sought help had drunk at least the equivalent of two pints of beer.

Dr. Eogan confirmed that 712 men and women sought help and received care from the sexual Assault units in the country last year. I can’t transcribe the entire interview but I thought the following was very interesting in light of the current controversy. (The full interview can be heard on the Newstalk Website - 18/07/17 - Part 2).

Pat Kenny – “ The involvement of alcohol, 302 of the cohort or over 47% of people had consumed about four units, one unit being a glass of beer so four units is the equivalent of two pints of beer or four glasses of wine. When you ask them about how much they have had to drink how do they react?".

Dr. Eogan – “I suppose that has always been something that has concerned us a little bit because internationally and nationally we know that survivors of sexual crime and perpetrators of sexual crime are very likely to have consumed alcohol and traditionally we haven’t really focused on that, we have sort of said, we won’t talk about that because that is victim blaming and victim shaming”.

Dr Eogan went on to stress that no matter how vulnerable a person is, no matter what they have had to drink or wear they are in no way responsible. She was at pains to stress that nobody in the world deserves to have a sexual crime visited upon them regardless of what they’ve drunk, what they’re wearing, what dark street they’re walking down.

She went on to say…. “that it is very important from a public health perspective and a patient safety perspective that when we notice something like this, an association with alcohol, that we highlight it because of health promotion and staying safe.

The Rape Crisis Centres do these Stay Safe workshops and you know it’s so important that we highlight that there is an association and just because somebody is drunk does not mean they deserve to have sexual violence visited upon them and from the point of view of the work we do with school students and college students we highlight this link, not to blame anyone but more to give a health promotion/preventative message out there.

You need to look after each other, you need to look after yourself. If you have a friend who has drunk an awful lot of alcohol really make sure they get home safe”.

For the most part this sounds VERY LIKE what George was trying to say doesn’t it? (i.e Look after yourself when drinking and each other).

Pat then moved on to speak to Noeleen Blackwell, CEO of Dublin Rape Crisis Centre about the report's findings.

Noeleen Blackwell -“There is a knowledge and suspicion that and Dr. Eogan has made it clear that there is sometimes a link between drinking and drugs and rape. And we see the same thing in the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, our volunteers go down the Rotunda (Sexual Assault Unit) to accompany and support people who are going through the examination down there, the same as other rape crisis centres around the country….

So without a doubt, if somebody has taken drink their capacity to deal with an approach in relation to sex or anything else, their capacity is impaired. We are told it about peoples mobile phones, we are told about it when they go out about physical assaults, the same is true of sexual assaults. For a person, in order to, ahem the risk of harm coming to them in some form or another can be increased by drinking more than they are capable of sensibly drinking and that’s one side of the coin".

Again, isn’t this VERY SIMILAR to what George was saying?

Noeleen Blackwell went on to reiterate what Dr. Eogan said earlier that rape NEVER being the victim's fault.

George’s big mistake and only mistake in view was he should have made it abundantly clear that the victim is never to blame for rape, there was nothing wrong with anything else he said. Dr. Eogan & Noeleen Blackwell had been relaying the same/similar message to the public only six weeks earlier.

Pat went on to have a very robust discussion with Noeleen Blackwell on the issue of consent. It well worth listening to.

However, I’m wondering if Pat was conducting the interview tomorrow would his line of questioning be the same, I would hope it would be but I’m unsure.

For example: He asked Dr. Eogan the following about people who seek help from the Sexual Assault Centres?

Pat – Do you have a sceptical cap that you put on from time to time. It’s great that help and sympathy is offered immediately but am, do you have to be a little careful too that you might be used for nefarious purposes?

Dr. Eogan – No, the sexual assault treatment unit would never be sceptical.

I honestly believe if he asked that same question in the current climate, people would be calling for his resignation too. I think we will see lots of toned down interviews on radio and TV in the future, journalists and broadcaster will be terrified of experiencing the vile blacklash George is experiencing over a clumsy mistake, it's sad when you see how close he was to the official Rape Crisis Centre/National Sexual Assault Treatment Centre message.

hotmail.com

SafeSurfer wrote:

99% of the population has had a one night stand? What a ridiculous statement. There are roughly 3.5 million over 17s in Ireland. So only 1%, 35,000 people have never had a one night stand according to you. I find that difficult to believe.

If you're surprised that most people in Ireland have had one night stands at some point, then I think we get a glimpse into the minds of Hook supporters.

hotmail.com

PeterTheNinth wrote:

But I think this is where the disconnect is... I think there is a huge difference with the opinions that are expressed on liberal radio stations, and the opinions that are expressed around the average dinner table. In a similar way to the way there was a huge disconnect between the liberal media in the US and the actual voters. The media here is no longer a balanced representation of the views of the average Irish people. There is only one view welcome in the media, and if you don't subscribe to those views then you will be immediately vilified and there will be Twitter campaigns, Facebook campaigns, bullying through whatever means they have available to him.

In terms of social issues (divorce, lgbt rights, contraception, equal rights for women, separation of church and state etc etc), the media does have a liberal bias on these matters. It reflects a changed Ireland and changed irish attitudes.

There are those like yourself who have not changed with the majority and are not open to changing their minds. George Hook reflected that attitude. So it's a pity he was stupid enough to go too far on this one.

SafeSurfer

99% of the population has had a one night stand?
What a ridiculous statement.
There are roughly 3.5 million over 17s in Ireland.
So only 1%, 35,000 people have never had a one night stand according to you.
I find that difficult to believe.

Snickers Man

reg114 wrote: »

Being a woman doesnt validate your argument one bit. By your logic the rape victim divested herself of personal responsibility the minute she left her house. 99% of the population have had a one night stand, does that mean everyone is fair game for blame if they come to harm?

A woman should be able to go home with a guy on the first night and not be lynched because of it. As usual the focus in all f this is solely on the victim, the rapist seems peripheral to the discussion. Why? Why didnt Hook analyse the rapists depravity? Why didnt he ask what kind of human being is capable of defiling another? Blaming the victim, who is generally a woman, is a societal tradition and its repulsive, but more so when its a woman blaming another woman.

What rapist? At the time of writing, no rape has been proven to have taken place. Any statement to the effect that what transpired was in fact a rape is highly speculative and defamatory (to the male party in the case) I don't know the details of what went on other than the bare essentials that girl meets boy; girl has consensual sex with boy; girl meets other boy; they have sex. And there is a divergence of testimony as to whether it was consensual.

That's all anybody not familiar with the minutiae of the case or the trial knows. One can speculate away about the relative culpability of one party or the other. But one should really do so on the inside........

Snickers Man

Leave George Hook alone and bring back Jeremy Clarkson. Top Gear has got really ****e since they dumped him off it. In fact, I don't watch it any more.

Slightly off topic I know. Look I don't agree with everything George Hook says (or Clarkson for that matter) but I think the place will be poorer for their being marginalised.

bottlebrush

reg114 wrote: »

Being a woman doesnt validate your argument one bit. By your logic the rape victim divested herself of personal responsibility the minute she left her house. 99% of the population have had a one night stand, does that mean everyone is fair game for blame if they come to harm?

A woman should be able to go home with a guy on the first night and not be lynched because of it. As usual the focus in all f this is solely on the victim, the rapist seems peripheral to the discussion. Why? Why didnt Hook analyse the rapists depravity? Why didnt he ask what kind of human being is capable of defiling another? Blaming the victim, who is generally a woman, is a societal tradition and its repulsive, but more so when its a woman blaming another woman.

I am not blaming the woman. I totally agree with you. A woman should be able to go home with a guy on the first night and not be lynched because of it.

PeterTheNinth

I actually don't think it's gonna be possible for Hook to do the job properly now. He's gonna be on edge all the time in case he offends somebody, and this will make his impotent with regard to asking the tough questions. I think he's probably going to have to leave... He might be better just stepping away.

DeanAustin

reg114 wrote: »

Being a woman doesnt validate your argument one bit. By your logic the rape victim divested herself of personal responsibility the minute she left her house. 99% of the population have had a one night stand, does that mean everyone is fair game for blame if they come to harm?

A woman should be able to go home with a guy on the first night and not be lynched because of it. As usual the focus in all f this is solely on the victim, the rapist seems peripheral to the discussion. Why? Why didnt Hook analyse the rapists depravity? Why didnt he ask what kind of human being is capable of defiling another? Blaming the victim, who is generally a woman, is a societal tradition and its repulsive, but more so when its a woman blaming another woman.

Hook condemned the alleged rapist if you actually read the quotes.

And as side note, the fella hasn't even been convicted of rape.

[Deleted User]

reg114 wrote: »

Being a woman doesnt validate your argument one bit. By your logic the rape victim divested herself of personal responsibility the minute she left her house. 99% of the population have had a one night stand, does that mean everyone is fair game for blame if they come to harm?

A woman should be able to go home with a guy on the first night and not be lynched because of it. As usual the focus in all f this is solely on the victim, the rapist seems peripheral to the discussion. Why? Why didnt Hook analyse the rapists depravity? Why didnt he ask what kind of human being is capable of defiling another? Blaming the victim, who is generally a woman, is a societal tradition and its repulsive, but more so when its a woman blaming another woman.

And where is she saying that it's the victim's fault?

I suppose you don't lock your door leaving the house?

This kind of hyperbolic crap is symptomatic of "arguments" nowdays

DeanAustin

blue note wrote: »

It's frustrating that the media consensus seems to be that it's just men online who are in support of what George said.

Firstly, very few support what he said. The vast majority of people posting here acknowledge that an apology was appropriate for what he said.

And secondly, almost entirely men? I think a lot of the people calling this reaction ridiculous are women. And looking at the comments after articles on it on facebook an awful lot of those people are women.

Are they blind in their reading of who is supporting George or are they willfully ignoring the women supporting him? It reminds me a lot of hearing that Trump was voted into power by straight white men. Even though the majority of white women voted him in as well.

There is little room for nuance when dealing with the wider population. That's why the narrative is kept very simple and in black and white terms.

The rise of social media as a source of news is contributing to this hugely because people are having the news tailored to suit their view of the world and confirm their prejudices and biases. To compete, the mainstream media are simplifying their narrative. Also, the concentration of media ownership is accentuating the problem.

It's dangerous because any deviation from the narrow allowable opinions results in people being vilified and hounded out of the public eye and their jobs.

reg114

bottlebrush wrote: »

The same way that I have every right to go away and leave my house unlocked and expect that all will be OK when I return. Burglars exist. Fact. Murderers exist. Fact. Rapists exist. Fact. I will lock up my house and put on the alarm before I leave it so as to reduce the risk of it being burgled. If you don't want to be that woman who is going to be raped, then reduce your risk. I am a woman and my sisters and female friends perfectly understand what George was getting at and don't understand the fuss. If he has to go over this we will be voting with our fingers and moving the dial.

Being a woman doesnt validate your argument one bit. By your logic the rape victim divested herself of personal responsibility the minute she left her house. 99% of the population have had a one night stand, does that mean everyone is fair game for blame if they come to harm?

A woman should be able to go home with a guy on the first night and not be lynched because of it. As usual the focus in all f this is solely on the victim, the rapist seems peripheral to the discussion. Why? Why didnt Hook analyse the rapists depravity? Why didnt he ask what kind of human being is capable of defiling another? Blaming the victim, who is generally a woman, is a societal tradition and its repulsive, but more so when its a woman blaming another woman.

PeterTheNinth

bottlebrush wrote: »

I am a woman and my sisters and female friends perfectly understand what George was getting at and don't understand the fuss.

But I think this is where the disconnect is... I think there is a huge difference with the opinions that are expressed on liberal radio stations, and the opinions that are expressed around the average dinner table. In a similar way to the way there was a huge disconnect between the liberal media in the US and the actual voters. The media here is no longer a balanced representation of the views of the average Irish people. There is only one view welcome in the media, and if you don't subscribe to those views then you will be immediately vilified and there will be Twitter campaigns, Facebook campaigns, bullying through whatever means they have available to him.

[Deleted User]

bottlebrush wrote: »

The same way that I have every right to go away and leave my house unlocked and expect that all will be OK when I return. Burglars exist. Fact. Murderers exist. Fact. Rapists exist. Fact. I will lock up my house and put on the alarm before I leave it so as to reduce the risk of it being burgled. If you don't want to be that woman who is going to be raped, then reduce your risk. I am a woman and my sisters and female friends perfectly understand what George was getting it and don't understand the fuss. If he has to go over this we will be voting with our fingers and moving the dial.

It's such common bloody sense what you are saying!!

Mental that you have to qualify with "I'm a woman" otherwise you prob get the same snark that I have been getting!

bottlebrush

optogirl wrote: »

Is having a one night stand comparable with leaving your possessions in plain sight? She has every right to have a one night stand without stopping to think that a second man was going to come along and rape her. I find it hard to believe that none of the people supporting Hook's statement have ever had a one night stand/gone a to a party in a house they don't know very well/gone for a jog/gone camping or any similar reasonable things that have a risk factor, and have accepted that a rape might be a result. Again, he asked if some of the BLAME should lie with her. He asked if she should be surprised that it happened.

The same way that I have every right to go away and leave my house unlocked and expect that all will be OK when I return. Burglars exist. Fact. Murderers exist. Fact. Rapists exist. Fact. I will lock up my house and put on the alarm before I leave it so as to reduce the risk of it being burgled. If you don't want to be that woman who is going to be raped, then reduce your risk. I am a woman and my sisters and female friends perfectly understand what George was getting at and don't understand the fuss. If he has to go over this we will be voting with our fingers and moving the dial.

blue note

It's frustrating that the media consensus seems to be that it's just men online who are in support of what George said.

Firstly, very few support what he said. The vast majority of people posting here acknowledge that an apology was appropriate for what he said.

And secondly, almost entirely men? I think a lot of the people calling this reaction ridiculous are women. And looking at the comments after articles on it on facebook an awful lot of those people are women.

Are they blind in their reading of who is supporting George or are they willfully ignoring the women supporting him? It reminds me a lot of hearing that Trump was voted into power by straight white men. Even though the majority of white women voted him in as well.

The Specialist

optogirl wrote: »

Is having a one night stand comparable with leaving your possessions in plain sight? She has every right to have a one night stand without stopping to think that a second man was going to come along and rape her. I find it hard to believe that none of the people supporting Hook's statement have ever had a one night stand/gone a to a party in a house they don't know very well/gone for a jog/gone camping or any similar reasonable things that have a risk factor, and have accepted that a rape might be a result. Again, he asked if some of the BLAME should lie with her. He asked if she should be surprised that it happened.

I think the biggest issue here is that expressing any sort of opinion or thought on rape is taboo, even if there is no malice behind the words.

Let me ask you this -I go to town for a night out and end up wandering to a bad street where I get the head kicked off me. I didn't have any intention of being assaulted but it happened. Now granted the attacker is a piece of ****,and I have "every right" to enjoy my night without a scenario like that, but bad things happen and there is some personal responsibility to say "maybe this is not a good idea".

From this ****storm George is in, it would appear that anybody even questioning me as to why I went to that part of town would be "victim blaming" me -even though it's a perfectly normal human trait to question what the circumstances were that allowed it to happen, and if I was 100% in my right mind to know the dangers.

[Deleted User]

Obvious Otter wrote: »

Having a one night stand with someone carries risk. Was she vigilant and did she protect herself by not engaging in sexual activity with someone she didn't really know? No, but that doesn't mean that it's her fault.

Why can't we set an example for younger women by telling them to not engage in sexual activity with someone they don't know?

You can not TELL a person who they can and can not have sex with, that is totally their choice if both (or more) consent.

You can point out risks involved and let them make their own decisions.

maxwell smart

Chelsea Miniature Somehow wrote: »

He has some antiquated views on rape/women that have no place in a modern society.
He has created up fear uncertainty and doubt about HPV vaccine that will result unnecessary deaths down the line.
He has had an Islamophobic leaning going back god knows how long.

You may not agree with me on on the above but I hope you'll see why some of us don't think he's a good person.

On point 1 - his comments can be interpreted in a couple of ways, either he is as you stated or he didn't get his point across.
On point 2 - Yes, but isn't he simply voicing concerns that quite a few parents (judging by the drop in vaccine uptake) have? Isn't that what he (and even Joe Duffy to an extent) are there for? Voices for the voiceless? You could say that his voicing of these concerns have pushed the HSE into action to get the message across.
On point 3 - I would agree with you here, but you might be surprised how many people in Ireland agree with his view point.

So I'm wondering, should everyone who has an alternative view point be taken off the radio / TV?
For example, Gerry Adams and a lot of the people in Sinn Fein. Some would consider they push an agenda that is very insulting to many people on this island. They have (directly or indirectly) contributed to real actual deaths on this island.
Should their voice be banned from the airwaves?

Bunny Colvin

I've read the last few pages and it is good to see that most posters are supporting George. I really don't have a problem with what he said, it's a touchy subject but even still, the backlash has been sickening.

I really hate the type of people that would throw a strop over this. Hopefully George can hang tight but given his age and circumstances, I'd walk if I was him. He doesn't need to deal with this nonsense anymore.

Obvious Otter

optogirl wrote: »

Is having a one night stand comparable with leaving your possessions in plain sight? She has every right to have a one night stand without stopping to think that a second man was going to come along and rape her. I find it hard to believe that none of the people supporting Hook's statement have ever had a one night stand/gone a to a party in a house they don't know very well/gone for a jog/gone camping or any similar reasonable things that have a risk factor, and have accepted that a rape might be a result. Again, he asked if some of the BLAME should lie with her. He asked if she should be surprised that it happened.

Having a one night stand with someone carries risk. Was she vigilant and did she protect herself by not engaging in sexual activity with someone she didn't really know? No, but that doesn't mean that it's her fault.

Why can't we set an example for younger women by telling them to not engage in sexual activity with someone they don't know?

quintana76

mikep wrote: »

Are you referring to Hook here?
It will all depend on the procedures in place..likewise for those who started the letter thing..

I was not referring to Hook. I was referring to his leading attempted assassin.

[Deleted User]

optogirl wrote: »

Is having a one night stand comparable with leaving your possessions in plain sight? She has every right to have a one night stand without stopping to think that a second man was going to come along and rape her. I find it hard to believe that none of the people supporting Hook's statement have ever had a one night stand/gone a to a party in a house they don't know very well/gone for a jog/gone camping or any similar reasonable things that have a risk factor, and have accepted that a rape might be a result. Again, he asked if some of the BLAME should lie with her. He asked if she should be surprised that it happened.

I HAVE gone walking through the city on my own and have had a bottle smashed across my head and them attempt to steal my jacket and wallet.
I am 6ft1 and 250 lbs, not a typical easy target but made myself into one by strolling through town at 3am drunk, it damn well was not my fault but I was lucky that a few stitches was all I needed. It could have been much worse

[Deleted User]

chicken foot wrote: »

We are all fully aware of protecting ourselves, people have one night stands all the time without being raped!
Tell me now how this girl went wrong? In your opinion. G Hook seemed to think she was wrong to be surprised that she was raped, do you agree?
By all accounts the guy she went back with didn't rape her, his friend did. How the **** do you protect against that!!

Perhaps you can not, but it is a risk which people (all people) need to weigh up.
She went home to a house with people she didn't know in it. It's not her fault that there was an animal there but there is an increased risk and it's not unheard of.

As I said earlier, the woman has no blame or fault. That completely is with the animal who attacked her. We can not remove risk, as long as people like that exist there will always be targets, all we can do is mitigate or weigh up the risks.

Have you ever told someone "Stay safe" as they head out for the night? You would not blame them if something happened but would hope that they can avoid horrid situations, that is not you being possessive of them just urging them to take care