Homelessness on the rise

utmbuilder

working should be a choice. however when landlords want to own housing for 1% deposit to make a return, this system makes it vital every working bee in the colony hits the grind stone till age 68

Eric Cartman

utmbuilder wrote: »

working should be a choice.

It is, but if you choose not to work you can go live in a forest and hunt/ beg for food and build your own shelter.

If you want a roof over your head and food from shops and heating etc... You have to work. Theres no such thing as a free lunch, nor should there be.

starshine1234

starshine1234 wrote: »

Completely wrong.

You can contribute to society in many ways, not just by being a meek economic unit for the rich to exploit.

You can observe the law for example, or take your place on a jury, or act like a civil minded person. You can co-operate with police enquiries.

All of those things are positive. You seek to deny that.

They are all irrelavent if you are a leech on the finances of working people and those who are in genuine need. Refusal to work should result in zero state benefits no housing, no dole, no medical care etc.

starshine1234 wrote: »

You advocate for a lawless society, where the weak and disadvantaged are left to fend for themselves. That will result in a huge crime wave, and workers and businesses would be preyed upon.

People who refuse to work for no good reason are not week or disadvantaged they are useless leeches on society.

Michael D Not Higgins

Mod: back to the property angle, please. The politics forum is a more appropriate place to discuss basic income.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Bit of a mad thread this.

With regard to social welfare tenants it can be difficult. Our next door neighbour in the semi-D that we lived in and now rent out was a social welfare tenant. She was pretty alright herself, not the sharpest tool in the shed but fine. The problem was the people she attracted. Her ex was a bit of a scumbag and known to Gardai (one of the people in the estate was a detective and knew him well in a professional capacity). Cue several bust-ups. One morning at around half 8 when I was away he came and smashed in her windows. The windows were replaced and some sort of plastic barrier put onto them. This estate would be known to be a very quiet, family estate so this was very out of place. There were several other incidents with exes and the Gardai were around.

As I said she wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed. One Sunday we were outside and noticed a smell of gas. After 3 of us confirmed that we believed there was a smell and we called the emergency hotline. The plumber called and found that the issue was that her meter was leaking gas. She came out to see what was going and said she had smelled the gas herself but didn't think the gas company would be working on a Sunday! The plumber in fairness set her straight on the dangers and went out of his way to thank me for ringing it in.

Recently she moved out and the house was put on the market. I wonder how much she came into the landlords decision to get out of the game.

I now rent out my own semi-D there and am very selective on who I let in.

Slydice

The August figures have been released:
http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/homeless_report_-_august_2016.pdf

Homelessness on the rise. I've updated the two charts based on the totals they give.

Homelessness (Adults)


Family Homelessness


The latest report repeats:

The root cause of increased homelessness is the supply shortage across the housing sector, which in turn is a result of the recent economic collapse and the associated damage to the construction sector. Accordingly the long-term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes.

_Brian

The problem as I see it is that those who are choosing to make them selves "homeless" are pushing the genuinely homeless people down the que and so they are not getting sufficient resources..

People are being offered houses and turning them down because they are not in preferred locations or close to family. This has to end. For such people there should be a limit of offers, two maybe, after that all supports is withdrawn and the resources are directed to the next person on the list.

I feel the resources are there, but these selfish individuals are clogging up the system with their petty notion that they are entitled to the perfect home at the states expense.

For some now homelessness is a lifestyle choice and they should be ASHAMED !

Slydice

I'm kinda surprised the first reply to these figures is the same as when I posted the first set of figures.

Slydice wrote: »

It was supply when I looked at Refusals last.

Housing waiting list size Versus Refusals
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97606025&postcount=36

Tony EH

Slydice wrote: »

I'm kinda surprised the first reply to these figures is the same as when I posted the first set of figures.

Are you?

Simple minded responses abound!

:pac:

We have a real serious problem on our hands re: housing in this country and no political will to tackle it. There are also a cadre of "I'm alright Jacks" that just don't care (about anyone worse off than them) and never will care, so long at they're fine. They only open their traps when something happens on their doorstep.

Such people are best ignored.

The simple facts are that we need more social housing and serious rent controls to stop leech landlords gouging stupid amounts of money out of people for their shitty properties.

We've let things get waaaay too out of control on this island and frankly it's unsustainable.

the_syco

myshirt wrote: »

Time for some social rebalancing in favour of equality here. Very aggressively, landlords should be made take on social welfare tenants. Very aggressively.

EVERY SINGLE LANDLORD WILL STOP BEING A LANDLORD.

And then what will you do?

Actually, better idea; how about you force the social welfare tenants into the houses that they turn down?

riclad wrote: »

if one person refuses a house the next person on the list will take it

No. They just stay empty.

Tony EH wrote: »

The simple facts are that we need more social housing and serious rent controls to stop leech landlords gouging stupid amounts of money out of people for their shitty properties.

We need laws to evict people who don't pay their rent. Currently there is no laws at all. Landlord rent out crap places because they fear that the people who rent them out will destroy them.

Barely Hedged

Tony EH wrote: »

The simple facts are that we need more social housing and serious rent controls to stop leech landlords gouging stupid amounts of money out of people for their shitty properties.

Can you point me to any analysis to suggest that capping the income received by landlords will lead to an improvement in the accommodation they provide?

Do you consider all other service providers you use as a "leech" because they invest their money and expect a return from it?

Do you know how much base costs have increased for landlords in the past 6 years and who has imposed these costs?

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

The simple facts are that we need more social housing and serious rent controls to stop leech landlords gouging stupid amounts of money out of people for their shitty properties.
.

Landlords in trying to make money from their business shocker. Honestly even after reading the terrible time so many LLs have and how tenants rights basically makes them untouchable even if they aren't paying rent how can you come out with statememnts like this. Letting property is a business why should it be interfered with with rent controls, sure why would anyone be involved if they are prevented from asking what the market is willing to pay.

Contrary to what you and another poster is saying, its LLs rights that need to be increased a lot not tenants rights or rent controls.

mariaalice

It is possible that in Dublin homelessness is at a tipping point, where it is not just those with addiction problems, mental health issues, anti social tendencies or issues in general that are at risk of homelessness or are actuley homeless that is why it needs to be tackled now before it become embedded in the system.

the_syco

Vanessa Billions Strapless wrote: »

Contrary to what you and another poster is saying, its LLs rights that need to be increased a lot not tenants rights or rent controls.

Actually, this should be reworded to "tenancy laws". I find any time "LL rights" are mentioned, the "800 years of occupation"/LL's make money (WTF?)/pictures of tenants under british rule tend to pop up.

Specifically the ability to boot people out for non payment of rent. Such laws would decrease homelessness, as more landlords would enter the market.

Slydice

Hrmm, it looks like it might be possible to make a total homelessness chart.

I see the Peter McVerry Trust adds the dependents to the total adults to reflect their figure for 6,611.
https://twitter.com/PMVTrust/status/779282754575949824

appfry

I know for a fact (CWO sister) that there is no landlord who will not rent to SW if they were offered an attractive deal.
Always when they talk to a landlord about renting their property from them it fals down at the part where the landlord asks them if they will take full responsibility for the running of the property.
The SW are not allowed to make a deal on this.
The landlords biggest problem is that they are responsible for everything that goes wrong and the SW will wash their hands of it when it goes wrong.

Its easy to solve the housing crisis.
You offer the landlord the market rate for 5 or 10 years, but you also offer to take on full responsibility for the tenants and pay rent for that 5 or 10 years, whatever happens. So the landlord is happy to have it rented. He/She hands SW the keys and forgets about it for 5 or 10 years, being guaranteed that they get the property back after that period of time in the same state they handed it over in.
That one thing alone would ensure that SW could rent all the properties they ever needed.
Any landlord would got for that deal. But the sw are not allowed to deal on that basis.

appfry

appfry wrote: »

Its easy to solve the housing crisis.
You offer the landlord the market rate for 5 or 10 years, but you also offer to take on full responsibility for the tenants and pay rent for that 5 or 10 years, whatever happens. So the landlord is happy to have it rented. He/She hands SW the keys and forgets about it for 5 or 10 years, being guaranteed that they get the property back after that period of time in the same state they handed it over in.
That one thing alone would ensure that SW could rent all the properties they ever needed.
Any landlord would got for that deal. But the sw are not allowed to deal on that basis.

This may suit some LLs but a lot would not like to have their property tied up in such a long term deal in case they wanted to move back in or move in a family member, sell the place or if the rent increased further they would be tied to the deal. Even LLs who would plan to continue renting long term many like to have a change of tenant every few years.

appfry

No reason why that deal wouldnt work out exactly the same with a one or two year contract either.
The big problem is the that the landlord take all of the risk and the SW doesnt. If the SW want the properties they need to step up.
I put another thread up about this so probably best for me not to keep it going in this thread too.
Maybe the mods can move this over ? If they think it necessary.

Electric Sheep

Vanessa Billions Strapless wrote: »

This may suit some LLs but a lot would not like to have their property tied up in such a long term deal in case they wanted to move back in or move in a family member, sell the place or if the rent increased further they would be tied to the deal. Even LLs who would plan to continue renting long term many like to have a change of tenant every few years.

This is why Ireland needs professional landlords instead of amateur gombeens.

the_syco

Electric Sheep wrote: »

This is why Ireland needs professional landlords instead of amateur gombeens.

Ireland only has the amateurs, as professional landlords will have realised that it's not a business where they can make a profit long term, as people can stop paying rent with absolutely no repercussions.

Electric Sheep

Electric Sheep wrote: »

This is why Ireland needs professional landlords instead of amateur gombeens.

There will always be a large number of people being LLs on the side as it's a very popular way for people to invest and run a bit of a side business and I see nothing wrong with this. It's something I'd like to get into myself.

I'd much prefer rent from a small time LL with a property or two than a big corporation. The large scale LLs are far from ideal as you can see with the media reports, they don't give a damn about their tenants.

Electric Sheep

Vanessa Billions Strapless wrote: »

There will always be a large number of people being LLs on the side as it's a very popular way for people to invest and run a bit of a side business and I see nothing wrong with this. It's something I'd like to get into myself.

I'd much prefer rent from a small time LL with a property or two than a big corporation. The large scale LLs are far from ideal as you can see with the media reports, they don't give a damn about their tenants.

Neither do the small time landlords. Professional landlord companies properly vet tenants before letting - credit reports, proof of employment, references. They care about the condition of the investment, rather than letting it go to rack and ruin in the interest of money in their pocket this month.

antoinolachtnai

Property management costs real money to do and is part of the cost of renting property. DSP doesn't want to get involved in providing property management.

Slydice

The September figures have been released:
http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/homeless_report_-_september_2016_0.pdf

Homelessness on the rise. I've updated the two charts based on the totals they give.

Homelessness (Adults)


Family Homelessness


The latest report repeats:

The root cause of increased homelessness is the supply shortage across the housing sector, which in turn is a result of the recent economic collapse and the associated damage to the construction sector. Accordingly the long-term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes.

athtrasna

Mod note

CollyFlower your post has been deleted. "Elephant in the room" does not give you licence to drag the thread into topics beyond the remit of this forum

newacc2015

Electric Sheep wrote: »

This is why Ireland needs professional landlords instead of amateur gombeens.

But the fact that nearly every 'professional landlord' in using every exotic structure and tax loophole under the sun shows they only care about one thing. That is profit. Most landlords are very reasonable people. I dont think you will find the same thing about vulture funds who only care about profit. You will see plenty of landlords on here about having amazing tenants and being reasonable with rent increases, I dont think you will find a single REIT who would ever consider that. In fact a lot of REITs admit in their annual report as soon as the 2 year rent control limit is up, the tenants are all getting rent increases.

I think a lot of people are seriously naive if they think a tax dodging vulture funds are going to be more reasonable than Irish landlords. They might be 'professional' in terms they will extract every possible cent from Irish tenants paying as little tax as possible, but as long as they give longer tenancy periods that is reasonable?

I think if every 'amateur gombeen' was able to have brought their properties for cents on the euro like funds have done and didnt have to pay any tax, they would happily rent their properties for longer terms too.

pilly

athtrasna wrote: »

I think you'll find that this is not a communist country and people are free to rent their properties (handing over the keys to something routinely worth in excess of 100 times the deposit) to whoever they want.

This I one of the best posts I've ever seen on this subject. When are people going to realise that LL's are businessmen plain and simple. Will we be encouraging shops to sell their goods for less to people on social welfare next? I don't think so. A free market works. It's purely and simply the governments fault that we're in this mess because they completely halted the building of social housing. Why? Did they think that all these people on the list would just die?

Slydice

He's working from figures from September last year. In the charts posted here, it shows the number of Dependents (e.g. Children) have risen by 1000 since then.

Children placed in emergency accommodation 'having rights breached'
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/children-placed-in-emergency-accommodation-having-rights-breached-764758.html

Homeless children who are placed in emergency accommodation are having their rights breached, according to a new report.

Child protection watchdog calls for Govt to tackle housing crisis
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1118/832768-child-protection/

The Special Rapporteur for Child Protection has called on the state to tackle the housing crisis and has said that an "unacceptable" number of children are being housed in emergency accommodation.

Special Rapporteur on Child Protection
http://www.dcya.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/Child_Welfare_Protection/SpecialRapporteurChildProtection.htm

Dr Geoffrey Shannon was appointed as Special Rapporteur on Child Protection by a Government Decision of June 2006.

The report (182 pages) is here:
http://www.dcya.gov.ie/documents/publications/201611189thReportoftheSpecialRapporteuronChildProtection.pdf
An unacceptable 1,500 children are living in emergency homeless accommodation in 2015
The reference used for that number is from September 2015:
Nearly 1,500 Children Made Homeless in Ireland
23rd September 2015
http://www.barnardos.ie/riseup/children-made-homeless/

This has to end.

Slydice

The October figures have been released:
http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/homeless_report_-_october_2016.pdf

Homelessness on the rise. I've updated the two charts based on the totals they give.

Homelessness (Adults)


Family Homelessness


The latest report repeats:

The root cause of increased homelessness is the supply shortage across the housing sector, which in turn is a result of the recent economic collapse and the associated damage to the construction sector. Accordingly the long-term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes.

Slydice

They seem to have forgot to put a link on their main site but the November figures are available:
http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/homeless_report_-_november_2016.pdf

Homelessness on the rise. I've updated the two charts based on the totals they give.

Homelessness (Adults)


Family Homelessness


The latest report repeats:

The root cause of increased homelessness is the supply shortage across the housing sector, which in turn is a result of the recent economic collapse and the associated damage to the construction sector. Accordingly the long-term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes.