Homelessness on the rise

Wanderer78

dzwx wrote:

"Specific initiatives promised in Rebuilding Ireland for ring-fenced housing and associated funding for 18-24 year olds has not yet materialised almost a year later."

dzwx wrote:

Neither 25,000 new build homes per annum.

It's not gonna happen, none of it, we have decided 'the market knows best'! Yea right!

Browney7

Seems to be a real air of one person being a tragedy and thousands being a statistic about the reporting on increases in homelessness now.

Also, releasing the figures on a bank holiday Friday is a bit of a coincidence surely?

jamesthepeach

Was reading the journal today and there was an article about a reit which has asked everyone to leave because they are renovating.

Slydice

The July figures have been released:
http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/homeless_report_-_july_2017.pdf

Homelessness is on the rise. I've updated the two charts based on the totals they give.

Homelessness (Adults)


Family Homelessness


This report states:

The long-term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes.

Previous reports included:

The root cause of increased homelessness is the supply shortage across the housing sector, which in turn is a result of the recent economic collapse and the associated damage to the construction sector. Accordingly the long-term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes.

Coverage of this report:
Outcry following the publication of latest figures show 8,000 homeless
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/government-criticised-for-unacceptable-and-tragically-preventable-homelessness-figures-805079.html

Head of Advocacy for Barnados June Tinsley described the figures as "unacceptable and tragically preventable".

"Child homelessness has increased by 296% in the last three years. We see first-hand the devastating and long-term impact that being homeless has on a child’s health and development, not to mention their ability to learn," she said.

and

Inner City Helping Homeless (ICHH) claim the figure of 8,160 homeless adults does not reflect the real number of homeless people in Ireland.

ICHH, which puts the figure at nearly 10,000, said the official number does not include hidden homeless people who are sleeping rough or staying with friends or family

Almost 3,000 children now homeless across State
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/almost-3-000-children-now-homeless-across-state-1.3213232

Focus Ireland director of advocacy Mike Allen described the figures as “dreadful” and said they must be a “line in the sand”.

“They clearly show that the Government’s Rebuilding Ireland strategy is failing to get to grips with the escalating crisis. We are in the middle of the worst crisis in living memory as over 8,000 people are homeless nationwide.

“The time has now come for the Government to take the decisions it has shied away from for several years. This includes actively building social housing, taxing those who hoard building land, and protecting the rights of tenants facing eviction.”

Number of people homeless in Ireland exceeds 8,000 for first time
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0907/903072-homeless/

The total number of homeless people in the country has exceeded 8,000 for the first time, with 36% of them children, according to the latest figures released by the Department of Housing.
Government statistics for July show there were 1,429 families without homes - up almost 5% from June - leading to a total of 8,160 people homeless in Ireland.
The number of children without a home now stands at over 2,970.
The figures have gone up by 25% within a year

Spanish Eyes

At this stage the word homeless is being debased. It is not defined anywhere.

Maybe there should be a definition now.

Not everyone is homeless, but all are in need of housing. Same thing, different gravy.

The problem has to be solved, no doubt about it, but not everyone is living in a tent or in a doorway either. They are homeless for sure, but others are in temporary accommodation and are in need of housing. There is a difference.

But I suppose I will be told to get down off my high horse and get with the program.

Yep that would be the program where there are a multitude of homeless charities, the Local Councils and the Government all duplicating each other it seems.

A lot of those charities have massive cash assets too.

Just saying.

Michael D Not Higgins

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

At this stage the word homeless is being debased. It is not defined anywhere.

Maybe there should be a definition now.

Homeless is a defined term.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/losing_your_home/homelessness.html

Section 2 of the Housing Act 1988 states that you are considered homeless if:

There is no accommodation available that, in the opinion of the local authority, you and any other person who normally lives with you or who might reasonably be expected to live with you, can reasonably occupy or remain in occupation of, or
You are living in a hospital, county home, night shelter or other such institution, and you are living there because you have no suitable accommodation or
You are, in the opinion of the local authority, unable to provide accommodation from your own resources


In general, you may be considered homeless if you are:

Sleeping rough
Staying in an emergency hostel or refuge
Staying in bed and breakfast or hotel accommodation on a temporary basis
Staying temporarily with friends or family because you have nowhere else to go
Squatting (occupying a building illegally)

Tony EH

Homeless hasn't been "debased" at all. It still means what always meant. It's without a fixed abode, sans permanent dwelling.

Nothing has changed in the definition.

Just because someone finds themselves in a hotel room for a period of time it doesn't make them any less homeless.

Divelment

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

At this stage the word homeless is being debased. It is not defined anywhere.

Maybe there should be a definition now.

Not everyone is homeless, but all are in need of housing. Same thing, different gravy.

The problem has to be solved, no doubt about it, but not everyone is living in a tent or in a doorway either. They are homeless for sure, but others are in temporary accommodation and are in need of housing. There is a difference.

But I suppose I will be told to get down off my high horse and get with the program.

Yep that would be the program where there are a multitude of homeless charities, the Local Councils and the Government all duplicating each other it seems.

A lot of those charities have massive cash assets too.

Just saying.

There is definitely a difference, I am living in a property where it is "temporary". I have zero security of tenure and it is a very short term arrangement. I am not homeless but I am as close to being homeless, as in sleeping in a tent or in a Peter Mc Verry shelter, as you can get, and I'm a guy with a full time job earning above 30K a year. Life in Ireland the last 2 years has been a horrid experience of casually renting and the market being the way it is, it has brought about a ruthlessness when it comes to how people who have no contract or lease, are treated. You have no rights whatsoever if you are sharing a property with an owner occupier or a spouse or a sibling thereof.

The solution for all of this for me, is to relocate and go live in another country. I've picked Edinburgh. I'm firmly of the belief, after having lived here all my life, I'm Irish, and in particular after having lived through the crash years of 2008-2013, that this country simply lacks the ability to run itself in a way that works for its citizens.

Here we are 10 years after the worst economic crash that was ever witnessed in history, we hold the record for that event, and we still can't get such a basic thing like housing right. There is something inherently toxic about this country now, the pervading mood of pessimism that pervades every radio conversation and attempt at political analysis, whether it is on the TV or the radio. We have become so immune to the way the country is mismanaged that if 10,000 families were made homeless this weekend because they were evicted from their houses, and had to then congregate in the Phoenix Park in emergency tents, we would still just shrug our shoulders and mutter, "isn't it fúcking awful, FF/FG/Labour have ruined this country". But we would still do nothing and our political overlords know we would do nothing.

That is exactly why we have this housing & homelessness crisis. These guys are so unafraid of the electorate of this country that they are bragging in every national newspaper today that they are repaying back 5.5 billion Euro of IMF debt before it is due. You could build a LOT of social housing with that a fraction of that money and get a huge start on getting this crisis back under control, but no, we'll be good little Europeans and pay back the debt we took on to bail out our bank like the EU made us do, and we'll get a few brownie points from Brussels for now paying it back early!

And guess what institution says that we can't use this money to help sort out this unbelievable mess that is our housing & homelessness crisis, you guessed it, it's the EU!!!

So goodbye Ireland, I can't say it has been fun, in fact it has been a special sort of fúcking hell living here, especially in the last 10 years and the 10 years before that in the supposed "boom times" were nearly as bad.

Spanish Eyes

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Homeless is a defined term.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/losing_your_home/homelessness.html

Thanks for the link to definition.

It is quite broad though particularly in relation to living with family. Sure we all did that.

I am not saying it is right or wrong, but homelessness is a broad church, and a multitude of so called homeless charities with millions of cash on their balance sheets will never want to shut themselves down, now will they.

Spanish Eyes

Divelment wrote: »

There is definitely a difference, I am living in a property where it is "temporary". I have zero security of tenure and it is a very short term arrangement. I am not homeless but I am as close to being homeless, as in sleeping in a tent or in a Peter Mc Verry shelter, as you can get, and I'm a guy with a full time job earning above 30K a year. Life in Ireland the last 2 years has been a horrid experience of casually renting and the market being the way it is, it has brought about a ruthlessness when it comes to how people who have no contract or lease, are treated. You have no rights whatsoever if you are sharing a property with an owner occupier or a spouse or a sibling thereof.

The solution for all of this for me, is to relocate and go live in another country. I've picked Edinburgh. I'm firmly of the belief, after having lived here all my life, I'm Irish, and in particular after having lived through the crash years of 2008-2013, that this country simply lacks the ability to run itself in a way that works for its citizens.

Here we are 10 years after the worst economic crash that was ever witnessed in history, we hold the record for that event, and we still can't get such a basic thing like housing right. There is something inherently toxic about this country now, the pervading mood of pessimism that pervades every radio conversation and attempt at political analysis, whether it is on the TV or the radio. We have become so immune to the way the country is mismanaged that if 10,000 families were made homeless this weekend because they were evicted from their houses, and had to then congregate in the Phoenix Park in emergency tents, we would still just shrug our shoulders and mutter, "isn't it fúcking awful, FF/FG/Labour have ruined this country". But we would still do nothing and our political overlords know we would do nothing.

That is exactly why we have this housing & homelessness crisis. These guys are so unafraid of the electorate of this country that they are bragging in every national newspaper today that they are repaying back 5.5 billion Euro of IMF debt before it is due. You could build a LOT of social housing with that a fraction of that money and get a huge start on getting this crisis back under control, but no, we'll be good little Europeans and pay back the debt we took on to bail out our bank like the EU made us do, and we'll get a few brownie points from Brussels for now paying it back early!

And guess what institution says that we can't use this money to help sort out this unbelievable mess that is our housing & homelessness crisis, you guessed it, it's the EU!!!

So goodbye Ireland, I can't say it has been fun, in fact it has been a special sort of fúcking hell living here, especially in the last 10 years and the 10 years before that in the supposed "boom times" were nearly as bad.

Good post.

Sorry to hear about your circumstances, and I wish it could be better. But you are being proactive and getting out of here. I know not everyone can do this, but it is probably the best way now.

I wish you the very best.

NIMAN

Common sense thing for the Government to do

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/government-to-offer-homeless-families-in-dublin-the-chance-of-house-in-rural-counties-36114265.html

But I am sure they will get zero praise for it. Or many accepting their offer.

Divelment

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Good post.

Sorry to hear about your circumstances, and I wish it could be better. But you are being proactive and getting out of here. I know not everyone can do this, but it is probably the best way now.

I wish you the very best.

I'm one of the lucky ones who has solid income that lets me keep a roof over my head, but the reality is that this country, or at least Dublin City & County, has NOTHING to offer anyone who does not own a home that they bought many years ago, or who does not have a high paying job and wealthy parents who can give them a lump sum to use for a deposit.

Imagine being so backward as a country, so disorganised, so disconnected, so stupid, so incompetent, so corrupt, that you can't actually get something as fundamental as housing right? We were meant to improve our society with each passing generation, within the space of 20 years, we've brought this society back 100 years, straight back to the Dublin tenements of 1911!

The only people I know in Dublin not losing sleep tonight over their housing situation, are those whose parents bought them a place, or helped them big time with a lump sum to get a place. I've a few friends on proper leases who are only facing a 4% rent increase but at the back of their minds, they know that their tenancy could be upended in the morning if a letter arrived in the post informing them that their landlord needed the house back to sell it or that little Johnny was returning from Canada and was taking the house.

NIMAN

Perhaps a little harsh?

I would guess that many young people in the likes of London, Paris, New York etc can't afford to buy their own places either. Its the nature of big Western cities these days, they are really only for the wealthy, and Dublin is just going that way.

Perhaps the Gov need to look into a policy of getting people and jobs out of Dublin?

Divelment

NIMAN wrote: »

Perhaps a little harsh?

I would guess that many young people in the likes of London, Paris, New York etc can't afford to buy their own places either. Its the nature of big Western cities these days, they are really only for the wealthy, and Dublin is just going that way.

Perhaps the Gov need to look into a policy of getting people and jobs out of Dublin?

My point isn't about home ownership or about people being able to afford to buy their own place or not, it's about a complete lack of housing.

quadrifoglio verde

Divelment wrote: »

My point isn't about home ownership or about people being able to afford to buy their own place or not, it's about a complete lack of housing.

And where do you propose this money comes from?
You won't build a three bedroom terrace for less than 210k.
Ok, you might build it for 170k like in Poppintree
However, that had land given to it for pennies and development levies waived.
Add them on and your at 205K, for a modest 3bed terrace in ballymun. And at 170k, you still wouldn't get a mortgage.

Then you've the fact that you can't just build 3000 houses in an area and house the homeless, or even 3000 families on the councils housing lost. We've been there, done that and forty years later parts of these areas are still ghettos.

Yes there's the 5 bn that was repaid to the imf. However if you look at it, it's an accountancy mechanism. We owe the same amount as we did a few weeks previously.
Except we owe that 5 billion to someone else and save ourselves 150 million in interest.
Perhaps you'd have preferred had they not repaid the 5 billion to the imf early and instead paid an extra 150 million in interest?

We've had 9-10 years of threading water, 5 of those where we had excess housing and all of them where we underinvested in infrastructure as we struggled to keep the lights on.
We had nothing, the piggy bank was down to it's last few cents when the imf arrived.

Everyone is screaming for a solution now, but the money isn't there. We've a housing shortage, chronic traffic congestion, a metro that needs to be built, a motorway that needs to be started and finished between Cork and limerick. At the same time we've parts of rural Ireland still on dialup, a water infrastructure dating back to queen Victoria that's bursting at it's seams, a health service that needs serious investment, a third level education system that we can't fund and parents unable to afford childcare.
All that needs investment now, when the money isn't there

If you've solutions as to where to find that money that is fair to everyone, spell them out.
Even if we were to confiscate all of Uncle Denis's billions, it'd only act as a band aid on what we need.

Then you look at the likes of the human development index and see where ireland comes. Then you decide that almost everywhere else is fecked altogether and Ireland ain't so bad after all :pac:

Slydice

There are more than 3000 Homeless Children

The August figures have been released:
http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/homeless_report_-_august_2017.pdf

Homelessness is on the rise. I've updated the two charts based on the totals they give.

Homelessness (Adults)


Family Homelessness


This report states:

The long-term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes.

Previous reports included:

The root cause of increased homelessness is the supply shortage across the housing sector, which in turn is a result of the recent economic collapse and the associated damage to the construction sector. Accordingly the long-term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes.

Coverage of this report:
Number of homeless children in Ireland over 3,000 for first time
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-of-homeless-children-in-ireland-over-3-000-for-first-time-1.3238280

Number of homeless children in Ireland passes 3,000
https://www.thejournal.ie/homeless-figures-august-3621749-Sep2017/

Number of homeless children rises above 3,000 for first time
http://www.newstalk.com/Number-of-homeless-children-rises-above-3000-for-first-time

Earlier this week Al Jazeera brought international attention to the Homeless in Ireland:

Bubbaclaus

How many of these homeless are actually on the streets or is there any figures for that?

Carlos Orange

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

How many of these homeless are actually on the streets or is there any figures for that?

161.

Spring 2017. I imagine it varies seasonally.

https://www.pmvtrust.ie/news-media/facts-and-figures/

NIMAN

psinno wrote: »

161.

Spring 2017. I imagine it varies seasonally.

https://www.pmvtrust.ie/news-media/facts-and-figures/

I thought the authorities have always said no-one needs to sleep rough, they have beds.

Those 161 must be choosing to sleep outside.

Slydice

More coverage today:
3,000 children now homeless as crisis worsens
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/3000-children-now-homeless-as-crisis-worsens-460006.html

Over 3,000 children in Republic of Ireland 'are homeless'
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/over-3000-children-in-republic-of-ireland-are-homeless-36182469.html

Young actor David Rawle (Moone Boy & Song of the Sea) has taken part in a Focus Ireland video to highlight the child homelessness crisis

Focus Ireland created this video to highlight the terrible impact of the homelessness crisis on young people and to call for more action on the issue.

Slydice

The September figures have been released:
http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/homeless_report_-_september_2017.pdf

Homelessness is on the rise. I've updated the two charts based on the totals they give.

Homelessness (Adults)


Family Homelessness


The latest report does not have commentary where previous reports did. They used to include:

The long term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes

or:

The root cause of increased homelessness is the supply shortage across the housing sector, which in turn is a result of the recent economic collapse and the associated damage to the construction sector. Accordingly the long-term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes.

Coverage of this report:
Nationwide homeless figures rose to 8,300 in September
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/nationwide-homeless-figures-rose-to-8-300-in-september-1.3270515

More than 100 more people became homeless between August and September, according to the figures, with the number of homeless people in Dublin now at almost 6,000.

Ireland's homeless figures hit record high of 8,350
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irelands-homeless-figures-hit-record-11416167

Homelessness has reached a record high with 8,374 without homes around the country, according to new figures.

Rise in homeless population in September
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rise-in-homeless-population-in-september-461742.html

Mike Allen, Focus Ireland’s advocacy director, described the overall picture as very “bleak”.
“It’s now beginning to appear that what was happening in Dublin three years ago is happening in Cork, Limerick, and Galway,” he said.

Government urged to declare national emergency following further rise in homelessness
http://www.newstalk.com/Latest-government-figures-show-further-rise-in-homelessness

Speaking following the announcement, Inner City Helping Homeless (ICHH) chief executive Anthony Flynn warned the State is failing to get to grips with the crisis.

https://twitter.com/AnthonyICHH/status/923630151249866753

He said it “can't be acceptable” for the government to preside over monthly rises in homelessness numbers without calling an emergency sitting of the Dáil and declaring a national emergency.

https://twitter.com/ICHHDUBLIN/status/923615420451639302

ThunbergsAreGo

On the commentary does

"The root cause of increased homelessness is the supply shortage across the housing sector" imply that a if there were more houses those in emergency accommodation would be in a position to buy?

One in three people that are homeless are children. Thus is a worrying statistic and says alot about our compassion as a nation. Where are these children's families and why are they letting them or their parents choose homelessness?

BillyBobBS

The situation is a complete disaster and should be serious enough to bring down the government but then again this is a country where a pedo get's just over two years in jail and a guy who avoids paying tax get's six. An embarrassment of a nation.

EPAndlee

Maybe I'm being stupid here but if you see yourself having financial trouble and struggling to keep a roof over your head would you not think to move away from Dublin. I know your extended family might be there but putting a roof over your childs head is far more important

The_Conductor

naughtb4 wrote: »

On the commentary does

"The root cause of increased homelessness is the supply shortage across the housing sector" imply that a if there were more houses those in emergency accommodation would be in a position to buy?

One in three people that are homeless are children. Thus is a worrying statistic and says alot about our compassion as a nation. Where are these children's families and why are they letting them or their parents choose homelessness?

There isn't a short answer to this- other than a reflection that those in short term accommodation (hotel accomodation, B&Bs etc) are included among the figures- and while I wouldn't wish short term accommodation on my worse enemy- it does mean the people are not on the street, and they are enumerated as homeless.

As to whether if there were more houses- would those in emergency accommodation be in a position to buy- no, of course they wouldn't. Many of them were in all probability previous owners- many were not. Thats irrelevant however. Providing someone with accommodation- and asking whether they are in a position to own a dwelling- are two entirely different things- and its not really fair trying to entangle the two of them. First and foremost- those in emergency accommodation need to be offered viable long term accommodation. Someone needs to sit down and assess what precisely this means (I'm keeping in mind the poor woman in the Springfield Hotel in Leixlip barely 7-8 weeks ago, who commited suicide when offered a house in Adamstown/Clonburris- psychologically- she felt she couldn't bring children up in the area- yet many thousands of people are doing just that).

Looking after the homeless- is not as simple- as finding an empty property and dumping them in it- neat, job done, next in the queue. Homeless people have very complex needs- which have to be properly assessed and addressed. What may be logical to you, or I- may be a complete disaster to someone else- you simply don't know.

Homelessness is not about owning a property- it is about having a long term housing need satisfied. I would argue that local authority units- which are maintained by local authorities and in state ownership in perpetuity- is the way to go- not the current housing association with a plethora of red tape scattered like fairy dust around the country (also keep in mind- over 85% of all homeless are in the Dublin local authority areas- to the extent there are more Cork homeless or Galway homeless- in Dublin- than in their respective cities (for whatever reason- people tend to gravitate to Dublin).

Its a very complex issue- which patently is not being addressed- however, the biggest element of the issue- is a lack of appropriate accommodation, alongside appropriate amenities and facilities- particularly in the Dublin local authority areas.

pwurple

naughtb4 wrote: »

On the commentary does

"The root cause of increased homelessness is the supply shortage across the housing sector" imply that a if there were more houses those in emergency accommodation would be in a position to buy?

One in three people that are homeless are children. Thus is a worrying statistic and says alot about our compassion as a nation. Where are these children's families and why are they letting them or their parents choose homelessness?

Some cases are families priced out of a shrinking market.
Some cases are single parents.

The govt seems to be doing everything it can to disincentivise the service providers in housing... seems bizaar to me, but there you go. Some Landlords are selling up or converting to commercial instead of residential because of the loss they make in residential. The tax is just bananas on it. Less units available = someone squeezed out. Low income families are in the worst possible position.

ThunbergsAreGo

pwurple wrote: »

Some cases are families priced out of a shrinking market.
Some cases are single parents.

The govt seems to be doing everything it can to disincentivise the service providers in housing... seems bizaar to me, but there you go. Some Landlords are selling up or converting to commercial instead of residential because of the loss they make in residential. The tax is just bananas on it. Less units available = someone squeezed out. Low income families are in the worst possible position.

Agree with this, reading FF suggestion of closing loopholes to stop Landlords moving in family or selling up. Why in the world would anyone want to become a landlord?

There is little incentive for the average single property landlord

Wanderer78

Sadly I can't ever see this issue being solved, prepare for 10,000 homeless soon

LirW

I have to say though that the idea that some organisation came up with of a legislation change that you can't evict families from buy-to-let properties is beyond ridiculous. That is a plain recipe for disaster.

The_Conductor

LirW wrote: »

I have to say though that the idea that some organisation came up with of a legislation change that you can't evict families from buy-to-let properties is beyond ridiculous. That is a plain recipe for disaster.

Just means you'll have single owner of a single property- flog them- particularly in the current market (and to be honest- given the recovery in property prices- they'd be nuts not to).

This is so obvious- you'd be wondering what people were thinking with suggestions like this...........