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Eflow fines - Sheriff took car.

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    #32
    flatty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭flatty


    If I may add something on eflow's behalf, I have had problems with billing before on the m50 when home from England on holiday. Forgot to pay initially, but rang them, and no problems at all. My bro racked up about six journeys when loaned him my car. I had no idea, but when I went to add the car, which was new to me, into the account they drew it to my attention. They waived the fine and just debited the correct amount. I have never found them anything other than flexible and pleasant to deal with, and would look on them as gold standard in customer care.


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    #33
    GrumpyMe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭GrumpyMe


    Am I missing something?
    How can the sheriff find out, for sure, she is the rightful owner the car, especially since a different one was used to incur the tolls?


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    #34
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,329 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    savagethegoat wrote:
    best hope is that the car ios on HP or leased. They'd have to give it back.

    But there would still be a debt and the sheriff could take something else
    Tombo2001 wrote:
    But morally, the notion that non-payment of what at the outset is €24 worth of tolls can end up with your car being take off you.......that's just ludicrous and morally wrong, and shows that things are messed up in the system.

    Morally ignoring all the letters because you think nothing will come of it is the problem.


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    #35
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users Posts: 28,819 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    flatty wrote: »
    If I may add something on eflow's behalf, I have had problems with billing before on the m50 when home from England on holiday. Forgot to pay initially, but rang them, and no problems at all. My bro racked up about six journeys went I loaned him my car. I had no idea, but when I went to add into the account they drew it to my attention. They waived the fine and just debited the correct amount. I have never found them anything other than flexible and pleasant to deal with, and would look on them as gold standard in customer care.

    I've heard far more stories along this line than the one in the OP.

    I've never had to deal with them over a missed payment but having missed one or two deadlines (paid in the following couple of days) they were a pleasure to deal with when I was trying to figure out what was the best account to set up.

    I'm guessing there's a lot more to this story than was given in the OP.

    It's still a fairly eye-watering total to arrive at from 24 quid though :eek:


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    #36
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,748 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    GrumpyMe wrote: »
    Am I missing something?
    How can the sheriff find out, for sure, she is the rightful owner the car, especially since a different one was used to incur the tolls?

    Because it wasn't a seizure order for the car - it was a civil debt recovery and a new car is a very easy thing to take for 6k. Onus is on you to prove something isn't yours when the sheriff comes.


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    #37
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    flatty wrote: »
    If I may add something on eflow's behalf, I have had problems with billing before on the m50 when home from England on holiday. Forgot to pay initially, but rang them, and no problems at all. My bro racked up about six journeys went I loaned him my car. I had no idea, but when I went to add into the account they drew it to my attention. They waived the fine and just debited the correct amount. I have never found them anything other than flexible and pleasant to deal with, and would look on them as gold standard in customer care.

    In fairness I have to agree with you. I used the road and forgot to pay on a couple of occasions. I always rang up to pay when I got the fine letter all no problem. But in the last year my post has bounced around the country so a couple of fines went past their dates. Rang eflow told them I only received the letter etc and they just charged me the original amounts which was reasonable of them.


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    #38
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,421 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Once upon a time there was an official eflow rep on boards who was also the model of helpfulness, no idea why he disappeared though.

    Like another poster said, there's much more to this story than is being told in the OP.


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    #39
    Deagol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭Deagol


    Echoing others, I forgot to pay the toll once and didn't get the letter until returned from holidays. Explained to them over the phone and they waived the extras, thoroughly helpful and understanding.

    I'm sorry for the OP's friend but I really think she stuck her head in the sand in an attempt to prove a point of some sort and now it's bitten her on the ass. Very hard to have any sympathy I'm afraid.


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    #40
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,692 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    OP, I think that e-flow may be too difficult a system for your friend.

    I'd suggest going to the credit union, getting a loan which can be used to pay the sherrif, then selling the car and getting a Leap card. They are simpler and likely to cause her less trouble.


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    #41
    PrettyBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,213 ✭✭✭PrettyBoy


    Hank Flaky Nurse wrote: »
    The case itself is not exactly black and white. She always had an account set up but she had to cancel it because of eflows irregular charging. Taking massive payments out at once at random times. She had a bill of over 150 the day her mortgage came out and then again at Christmas time. As a single mother it left her in a bad situation twice. So she cancelled it.

    Your "friend" is lying about the massive charges at random times - they charge monthly and if €150 was debited from her account on one occasion it means that she clocked up €150 worth of tolls that month. The same goes for the charge in December - they don't stop charging people around Christmas.

    You won't have to pay the full €6k, they'll probably accept around half that to get it settled. I'd talk to a solicitor in any case.


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    #42
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    keno-daytrader wrote: »
    12 journeys to add up to 6k, does anyone on this thread that is bashing the lady think that 12 trips should add up to 6k?

    How much cost has been incurred chasing the payment? There obviously should be a punitive element.


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    #43
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,895 ✭✭✭kirving


    psinno wrote: »
    How much cost has been incurred chasing the payment? There obviously should be a punitive element.

    Fair enough, they should be allowed to recoup their costs - otherwise no-one would pay.

    6k for 12 journeys is off the wall though. And people moan about Apple not being fair....


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    #44
    Tzardine
    Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭Tzardine


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    Fair enough, they should be allowed to recoup their costs - otherwise no-one would pay.

    6k for 12 journeys is off the wall though. And people moan about Apple not being fair....

    jiFfM.jpg


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    #45
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    Hank Flaky Nurse wrote: »
    I'm just looking to get some helpful advice.

    My friend had her car towed away by the Sheriff yesterday morning for an unpaid eflow bill.

    The case itself is not exactly black and white. She always had an account set up but she had to cancel it because of eflows irregular charging. Taking massive payments out at once at random times. She had a bill of over 150 the day her mortgage came out and then again at Christmas time. As a single mother it left her in a bad situation twice. So she cancelled it.

    During that time between cancelling she had 12 journeys built up and only realised when the letters came in the door. She rang eflow to pay the journeys but they would not wave the fee. She explained the situation prior and still they did not care. So her stance with eflow and the solicitors was that she would not be paying the extra charges and will happily go to court and fight her case.

    So yesterday without warning the sheriff towed the car away. A new car at that and not the one she used on the toll bridge. The bill 6000!!! Eflow said its nothing to do with them. The sheriff won't talk on the phone, assistant is saying to make him an offer of at least 3k and the solicitors don't want to know either.

    She is a single mother with a mortgage and a brand new job and is completely lost right now. The whole scenario is insane especially when you factor in how this initially happened. How can she fight her case and get her car back without paying the sheriff? Remembering of course that all calls are recorded and that she offered to pay the tolls without fees as it was eflows errors that led to her cancelling her account.

    Drives new car but can't afford to pay. Welcome back celtic tiger.


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    #46
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,748 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    Fair enough, they should be allowed to recoup their costs - otherwise no-one would pay.

    6k for 12 journeys is off the wall though. And people moan about Apple not being fair....

    6k for 12 journeys, 12 x numerous letters, solicitors involvement, court time, sheriffs costs.


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    #47
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,165 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    L1011 wrote: »
    6k for 12 journeys, 12 x numerous letters, solicitors involvement, court time, sheriffs costs.

    You won't convince the SJW brigade no matter how accurate and precise you are.


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    #48
    Walter2016
    Closed Accounts Posts: 522 ✭✭✭Walter2016


    Bandana boy wrote: »
    Why don't they use the sheriff more for fines and the like instead of putting people in jail , if it became known that not paying bills you would lose your stuff at a bad price exchange plus the fee for the sheriff every time we wouldn't have so many people refusing to pay Water charges etc .

    I can have some sympathy for your friend in that she is probably in an awful place because of a ~40 bill , but thems are the rules.


    System has changed since last April - no jail for non payment of fines. No more revolving prison door.

    If you don't pay they put attachment on earnings or social welfare.


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    #49
    Walter2016
    Closed Accounts Posts: 522 ✭✭✭Walter2016


    GrumpyMe wrote: »
    Am I missing something?
    How can the sheriff find out, for sure, she is the rightful owner the car, especially since a different one was used to incur the tolls?

    Sheriff has a lot of powers and one check on the registration number will give all information required.

    Again no sympathy for her. I'm using tag for years without any issues. I reckon issues were more like excuses not to pay - if issues were genuine they'd be rectified.

    Over 500 cases went to sheriff last year and three cases resulted in criminal prosecution. One was fined €25,000


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    #50
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    Fair enough, they should be allowed to recoup their costs - otherwise no-one would pay.

    6k for 12 journeys is off the wall though. And people moan about Apple not being fair....

    Recouping costs would not be punitive.

    punitive
    ˈpjuːnɪtɪv/Submit
    adjective
    inflicting or intended as punishment.


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    #51
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    flatty wrote: »
    If I may add something on eflow's behalf, I have had problems with billing before on the m50 when home from England on holiday. Forgot to pay initially, but rang them, and no problems at all. My bro racked up about six journeys went I loaned him my car. I had no idea, but when I went to add into the account they drew it to my attention. They waived the fine and just debited the correct amount. I have never found them anything other than flexible and pleasant to deal with, and would look on them as gold standard in customer care.

    Same here. Didn't pay a couple of trips because I was in my new car. Set up an account and they just deducted the original charges, no penalties or fees. Found them very efficient and friendly to deal with. Absolutely no problems.


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    #52
    GrumpyMe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭GrumpyMe


    L1011 wrote: »
    Onus is on you to prove something isn't yours when the sheriff comes.

    What? Sheriff can pick up anyone's car and hold it for ransom and it is up to the "target" to prove it is not theirs? That can't be right! If sheriff lifted my vehicle in error it would be theft! :rolleyes:

    In this case it appears sheriff got the correct vehicle!

    The question was - HOW did the sheriff target the vehicle?

    The words rotten, state and Denmark come to mind! :confused:


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    #53
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,748 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    GrumpyMe wrote: »
    What? Sheriff can pick up anyone's car and hold it for ransom and it is up to the "target" to prove it is not theirs? That can't be right! If sheriff lifted my vehicle in error it would be theft! :rolleyes:

    In this case it appears sheriff got the correct vehicle!

    The question was - HOW did the sheriff target the vehicle?

    The words rotten, state and Denmark come to mind! :confused:

    If they have sufficient reason to believe its yours, yes. Parked outside your house, you have the keys, registered in your name, etc. Its generally more of an issue when it comes to excuses about high value property inside a house being "borrowed" then cars.

    The debt is on the person, not the car. That it was a car seized for tolls is pretty much a coincidence - it was just the first high value item.


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    #54
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,808 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Same here. Didn't pay a couple of trips because I was in my new car. Set up an account and they just deducted the original charges, no penalties or fees. Found them very efficient and friendly to deal with. Absolutely no problems.

    cant say i had a similar experience. was on the m50 couple of weeks ago, completely forgot to pay toll, paid after a couple of days, received letter, rang to explain, had to pay fine.


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    #55
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,748 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    cant say i had a similar experience. was on the m50 couple of weeks ago, completely forgot to pay toll, paid after a couple of days, received letter, rang to explain, had to pay fine.

    Forgot one != New car and signing up for an account. They've always been willing to waive the 3 quid first fine for those opening an account


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    #56
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,808 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    L1011 wrote: »
    Forgot one != New car and signing up for an account. They've always been willing to waive the 3 quid first fine for those opening an account

    ah no point setting up an account. ive only ever used the toll a couple of times. eflow even said it wasnt worth it. it certainly would solve the forgetfulness problem but i really dont want any dd's from my bank account. genuinely forgot to pay but eflow were having none of it. nice chap on the phone. feel sorry for them in the call centre. id say their heads are wrecked from phone calls


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    #57
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users Posts: 28,819 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    ah no point setting up an account. ive only ever used the toll a couple of times. eflow even said it wasnt worth it. it certainly would solve the forgetfulness problem but i really dont want any dd's from my bank account. genuinely forgot to pay but eflow were having none of it. nice chap on the phone. feel sorry for them in the call centre. id say their heads are wrecked from phone calls
    Would you not set up a video account?

    Costs nothing, and only deducts the toll when you go through. It's an absolute gift for someone like me who might use the M50 toll maybe 10 times a year - takes all the guesswork out of it.


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    #58
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,808 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    Would you not set up a video account?

    Costs nothing, and only deducts the toll when you go through. It's an absolute gift for someone like me who might use the M50 toll maybe 10 times a year - takes all the guesswork out of it.

    an account in one sense does make sense but as ive said above, ive only used the toll a couple of times in the few years ive been driving. eflow said it wasnt even worth it. i had no problem paying the toll, but to be charged a fine for being a couple of days late is a bit ridiculous.


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    #59
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    ah no point setting up an account. ive only ever used the toll a couple of times. eflow even said it wasnt worth it. it certainly would solve the forgetfulness problem but i really dont want any dd's from my bank account. genuinely forgot to pay but eflow were having none of it. nice chap on the phone. feel sorry for them in the call centre. id say their heads are wrecked from phone calls

    You can pay in advance of using it now in any shop that does the post pay or on the web.


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    #60
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,808 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Stheno wrote: »
    You can pay in advance of using it now in any shop that does the post pay or on the web.

    yea i ll have to do that from now on, thats if i remember!


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    #61
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users Posts: 28,819 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    yea i ll have to do that from now on, thats if i remember!

    That's the beauty of the video account - no remembering required :)


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