Eflow fines - Sheriff took car.

qvsr46ofgc792k

I'm just looking to get some helpful advice.

My friend had her car towed away by the Sheriff yesterday morning for an unpaid eflow bill.

The case itself is not exactly black and white. She always had an account set up but she had to cancel it because of eflows irregular charging. Taking massive payments out at once at random times. She had a bill of over 150 the day her mortgage came out and then again at Christmas time. As a single mother it left her in a bad situation twice. So she cancelled it.

During that time between cancelling she had 12 journeys built up and only realised when the letters came in the door. She rang eflow to pay the journeys but they would not wave the fee. She explained the situation prior and still they did not care. So her stance with eflow and the solicitors was that she would not be paying the extra charges and will happily go to court and fight her case.

So yesterday without warning the sheriff towed the car away. A new car at that and not the one she used on the toll bridge. The bill 6000!!! Eflow said its nothing to do with them. The sheriff won't talk on the phone, assistant is saying to make him an offer of at least 3k and the solicitors don't want to know either.

She is a single mother with a mortgage and a brand new job and is completely lost right now. The whole scenario is insane especially when you factor in how this initially happened. How can she fight her case and get her car back without paying the sheriff? Remembering of course that all calls are recorded and that she offered to pay the tolls without fees as it was eflows errors that led to her cancelling her account.

Seth Brundle

I suspect that she needs to talk to a good solicitor!
Pronto!


Edit: Firstly she had the opportunity to resolve all of this but didn't avail of it so any sympathy that might have been there will now be gone.
Secondly, was the car leased somehow - was it even hers for the sheriff to take?

dudara

To the best of my knowledge, the sheriff is only engaged following a court case. So they must have secured judgement against her. Did she receive any court communications? Also, she needs to engage a solicitor immediately.

Stheno

Hank Flaky Nurse wrote: »

The case itself is not exactly black and white. She always had an account set up but she had to cancel it because of eflows irregular charging. Taking massive payments out at once at random times. She had a bill of over 150 the day her mortgage came out and then again at Christmas time. As a single mother it left her in a bad situation twice. So she cancelled it.

Was she not being billed once a month?

During that time between cancelling she had 12 journeys built up and only realised when the letters came in the door. She rang eflow to pay the journeys but they would not wave the fee. She explained the situation prior and still they did not care. So her stance with eflow and the solicitors was that she would not be paying the extra charges and will happily go to court and fight her case.

Did she not get notification she was being brought to court? All sounds a bit fishy to be honest, I've an eflow account and get an email every month when my bill comes out, then it gets deducted from my account around the same time each month.

And for the sherriff to seize the car, it had to go to court for a judge to order that.

Uncle Ben

Id say there was an awful lot of letters marked 'Private' before the sheriff got involved.

goldenhoarde

Not sure what she really can do now. She must have ignored some letters and a court appearance. The sheriff has a legitimate claim on the car and unless he is paid he will sell the car to pay the debt.


She will have to deal with the sheriff now as for him to be involved a court was involved.

Maybe FLAC might be able to advise but get her to open all letters that she so far has not looked at and make an appointment.


As for the payment issues, she should have got on to them to figure out why this was happening but rather she cancelled her only payment method and didn,'t put in place another, so that's her fault.

Alun

Stheno wrote: »

Was she not being billed once a month?

Did she not get notification she was being brought to court? All sounds a bit fishy to be honest, I've an eflow account and get an email every month when my bill comes out, then it gets deducted from my account around the same time each month.

Same here, I have an eflow video account and it always comes out, regular as clockwork on the 15th of each month, or the next business day after that if it falls on a weekend, hardly "irregular".

Plus, how on earth cancelling the account and thus paying more for the journeys she's presumably continuing to make, not to mention having to pay each and every one manually ends up solving her cash flow problems is beyond me.

savagethegoat

best hope is that the car ios on HP or leased. They'd have to give it back.

Otherwise, she's going to have to stump up, it doesn't pay to ignore these things, they get major quite quickly.

Her car will sell for much less than it's worth if it goes to auction. She'd save money paying the debt.

Stealthfins

6000 Euro no way....

L1011

This case is as black and white as it can be, to be honest.

They cancelled the account, offering to pay the original tolls when they had clearly not paid them is irrelevant. They have cleared ignored (or are pretending now they ignored) vast piles of communications, and a court date. That its a different car is irrelevant - the judgement is against them.

They aren't going to get the car back from the Sheriff without payment and they very clearly owe the debt.

This is helpful advice, by the way - because further head in the sand actions will result in a sold car and probably still outstanding debt.

BoatMad

theres no way that this got too this stage without stacks and stacks of letters that were obviously ignored

lawred2

Hank Flaky Nurse wrote: »

I'm just looking to get some helpful advice.

My friend had her car towed away by the Sheriff yesterday morning for an unpaid eflow bill.

The case itself is not exactly black and white. She always had an account set up but she had to cancel it because of eflows irregular charging. Taking massive payments out at once at random times. She had a bill of over 150 the day her mortgage came out and then again at Christmas time. As a single mother it left her in a bad situation twice. So she cancelled it.

During that time between cancelling she had 12 journeys built up and only realised when the letters came in the door. She rang eflow to pay the journeys but they would not wave the fee. She explained the situation prior and still they did not care. So her stance with eflow and the solicitors was that she would not be paying the extra charges and will happily go to court and fight her case.

So yesterday without warning the sheriff towed the car away. A new car at that and not the one she used on the toll bridge. The bill 6000!!! Eflow said its nothing to do with them. The sheriff won't talk on the phone, assistant is saying to make him an offer of at least 3k and the solicitors don't want to know either.

She is a single mother with a mortgage and a brand new job and is completely lost right now. The whole scenario is insane especially when you factor in how this initially happened. How can she fight her case and get her car back without paying the sheriff? Remembering of course that all calls are recorded and that she offered to pay the tolls without fees as it was eflows errors that led to her cancelling her account.

Firstly there must have been a court order against her. Was she aware of proceedings?

Secondly - I've had an eflow post pay account for about 7/8 years and never once has their been any strange billing procedures.. Emails and texts pretty much the same stage of the month to inform me of the balance and the date of direct debit. Exemplary process really.

Are you sure that she's fully straight up with you about the situation?

For it to get to 6k - she must have been delinquent for a very very long time.

SEPT 23 1989

how much is the car worth?

Atlantic Dawn

What does the fact she's a single mother got to do with anything? She has a car, you must pay tolls to use that stretch of road, your marital status has nothing to do with it.

Kimbot

Sorry but she walked her self into this, if she didnt like the way eflow were charging then she take it up with them and get them to resolve it. Once she cancelled her account she was responsible for paying her toll on time and she didnt do that. She wanted the company to waive fee's because she didnt pay on time, again this is her fault and nobody elses. As was said above the Sherriff will only get involved after the courts etc. So if the Sherriff took the car form out side her house then its safe to say she received the numerous letters that could have prevented this mess in the first place.

mickdw

She had a new car so she can damn well afford to pay her tolls.
Given the brief history here, I'd be willing to bet that the new car is financed to the hilt. That may well be the saving grace here.

Bandana boy

Why don't they use the sheriff more for fines and the like instead of putting people in jail , if it became known that not paying bills you would lose your stuff at a bad price exchange plus the fee for the sheriff every time we wouldn't have so many people refusing to pay Water charges etc .

I can have some sympathy for your friend in that she is probably in an awful place because of a ~40 bill , but thems are the rules.

L1011

Bandana boy wrote: »

Why don't they use the sheriff more for fines and the like instead of putting people in jail , if it became known that not paying bills you would lose your stuff at a bad price exchange plus the fee for the sheriff every time we wouldn't have so many people refusing to pay Water charges etc .

I can have some sympathy for your friend in that she is probably in an awful place because of a ~40 bill , but thems are the rules.

Imprisonment is for contempt of the court fine. This is a civil debt being recovered.

markpb

Bandana boy wrote:

Why don't they use the sheriff more for fines and the like instead of putting people in jail , if it became known that not paying bills you would lose your stuff at a bad price exchange plus the fee for the sheriff every time we wouldn't have so many people refusing to pay Water charges etc .

In my experience the Sheriff is unwilling to size property from a lot of people, regardless of how much they owe or what the court ordered. Sick child - won't seize. Lone parent - won't seize . Paid two euro off the debt - won't seize.

Tombo2001

L1011 wrote: »

This case is as black and white as it can be, to be honest.

They cancelled the account, offering to pay the original tolls when they had clearly not paid them is irrelevant. They have cleared ignored (or are pretending now they ignored) vast piles of communications, and a court date. That its a different car is irrelevant - the judgement is against them.

They aren't going to get the car back from the Sheriff without payment and they very clearly owe the debt.

This is helpful advice, by the way - because further head in the sand actions will result in a sold car and probably still outstanding debt.

I think legally the case is black and white.

But morally, the notion that non-payment of what at the outset is €24 worth of tolls can end up with your car being take off you.......that's just ludicrous and morally wrong, and shows that things are messed up in the system.

If the libraries could do that, I'd be finished.

If I was her, I would be going down the Joe Duffy/ camping outside my TDs office with baby in arms route.

BoatMad

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I think legally the case is black and white.

But morally, the notion that non-payment of what at the outset is €24 worth of tolls can end up with your car being take off you.......that's just ludicrous and morally wrong, and shows that things are messed up in the system.

If I was her, I would be going down the Joe Duffy/ camping outside my TDs office with baby in arms route.

you are suggesting that for 24 euros she let all this build up , seriously dude the girl hasn't a leg to stand on , probably taught she could ignore it

never ignore bills ,always engage

BoatMad

L1011 wrote: »

Imprisonment is for contempt of the court fine. This is a civil debt being recovered.

if you do not pay a court fine as in you claim inability to pay, thats is not contempt of court, the plaintiff applies for process and the court typically points the sheriff

e-flow seized 50 cars recently in a similar action against 100s of non payers

L1011

User used road with clear toll and fine schedule. User refused to pay multiple times. Nothing immoral on the road operator making use of their fines schedule. Joe Duffy time was before it went to court, not after ignoring court

Tzardine

Offer the Sheriff €3,000 > get car back > pay tolls in future > learn a valuable life lesson

As the meerkats say , Simples !

savagethegoat

far better than they sell a new car for €6000 and she gets nothing.

Tombo2001

BoatMad wrote: »

you are suggesting that for 24 euros she let all this build up , seriously dude the girl hasn't a leg to stand on , probably taught she could ignore it

never ignore bills ,always engage

I'd say she had no idea of the implications of not paying the fines, and that is the problem.

And to be fair, I would say that is the case of most people who end up in this situation.

Uncle Ben

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I'd say she had no idea of the implications of not paying the fines, and that is the problem.

And to be fair, I would say that is the case of most people who end up in this situation.

Id say the implications were spelt out fairly plainly when the letter from the courts service landed prior to the hearing.

markpb

Uncle Ben wrote:

Id say the implications were spelt out fairly plainly when the letter from the courts service landed prior to the hearing.

And in all the letters she received before that.

keno-daytrader

12 journeys to add up to 6k, does anyone on this thread that is bashing the lady think that 12 trips should add up to 6k?

Set aside the fact that she probably ignored most of the communications, the fact that eflow can rack up these INSANE charges should be illegal.

Have we lost all common sense?

Tzardine

keno-daytrader wrote: »

12 journeys to add up to 6k, does anyone on this thread that is bashing the lady think that 12 trips should add up to 6k?

Set aside the fact that she probably ignored most of the communications, the fact that eflow can rack up these INSANE charges should be illegal.

Have we lost all common sense?

If there were no penalties then sure nobody would pay the fee at all.

Remember, this is 12 journeys. Not one or two that were forgotten about.

12 journeys that they did not bother to pay.
12 initial letters ( one for each journey ) asking to pay.
God knows how many reminders / increased fines.
Solicitors letters threatening legal action.
A court summons ignored.
A court judgement ignored.

Based on that, a €6,000 figure seems fair. This also included the legal fees eflow had to pay the solicitors presumably.

Very hard to have any sympathy at all TBH

strandroad

keno-daytrader wrote: »

12 journeys to add up to 6k, does anyone on this thread that is bashing the lady think that 12 trips should add up to 6k?

Set aside the fact that she probably ignored most of the communications, the fact that eflow can rack up these INSANE charges should be illegal.

Have we lost all common sense?

It's not (just) eflow charges, it's the cost of litigation and recovery.

flatty

If I may add something on eflow's behalf, I have had problems with billing before on the m50 when home from England on holiday. Forgot to pay initially, but rang them, and no problems at all. My bro racked up about six journeys when loaned him my car. I had no idea, but when I went to add the car, which was new to me, into the account they drew it to my attention. They waived the fine and just debited the correct amount. I have never found them anything other than flexible and pleasant to deal with, and would look on them as gold standard in customer care.

GrumpyMe

Am I missing something?
How can the sheriff find out, for sure, she is the rightful owner the car, especially since a different one was used to incur the tolls?

jimmycrackcorm

savagethegoat wrote:

best hope is that the car ios on HP or leased. They'd have to give it back.

But there would still be a debt and the sheriff could take something else

Tombo2001 wrote:

But morally, the notion that non-payment of what at the outset is €24 worth of tolls can end up with your car being take off you.......that's just ludicrous and morally wrong, and shows that things are messed up in the system.

Morally ignoring all the letters because you think nothing will come of it is the problem.

HeidiHeidi

flatty wrote: »

If I may add something on eflow's behalf, I have had problems with billing before on the m50 when home from England on holiday. Forgot to pay initially, but rang them, and no problems at all. My bro racked up about six journeys went I loaned him my car. I had no idea, but when I went to add into the account they drew it to my attention. They waived the fine and just debited the correct amount. I have never found them anything other than flexible and pleasant to deal with, and would look on them as gold standard in customer care.

I've heard far more stories along this line than the one in the OP.

I've never had to deal with them over a missed payment but having missed one or two deadlines (paid in the following couple of days) they were a pleasure to deal with when I was trying to figure out what was the best account to set up.

I'm guessing there's a lot more to this story than was given in the OP.

It's still a fairly eye-watering total to arrive at from 24 quid though :eek:

L1011

GrumpyMe wrote: »

Am I missing something?
How can the sheriff find out, for sure, she is the rightful owner the car, especially since a different one was used to incur the tolls?

Because it wasn't a seizure order for the car - it was a civil debt recovery and a new car is a very easy thing to take for 6k. Onus is on you to prove something isn't yours when the sheriff comes.

Kimbot

flatty wrote: »

If I may add something on eflow's behalf, I have had problems with billing before on the m50 when home from England on holiday. Forgot to pay initially, but rang them, and no problems at all. My bro racked up about six journeys went I loaned him my car. I had no idea, but when I went to add into the account they drew it to my attention. They waived the fine and just debited the correct amount. I have never found them anything other than flexible and pleasant to deal with, and would look on them as gold standard in customer care.

In fairness I have to agree with you. I used the road and forgot to pay on a couple of occasions. I always rang up to pay when I got the fine letter all no problem. But in the last year my post has bounced around the country so a couple of fines went past their dates. Rang eflow told them I only received the letter etc and they just charged me the original amounts which was reasonable of them.

Alun

Once upon a time there was an official eflow rep on boards who was also the model of helpfulness, no idea why he disappeared though.

Like another poster said, there's much more to this story than is being told in the OP.

Deagol

Echoing others, I forgot to pay the toll once and didn't get the letter until returned from holidays. Explained to them over the phone and they waived the extras, thoroughly helpful and understanding.

I'm sorry for the OP's friend but I really think she stuck her head in the sand in an attempt to prove a point of some sort and now it's bitten her on the ass. Very hard to have any sympathy I'm afraid.

Mrs OBumble

OP, I think that e-flow may be too difficult a system for your friend.

I'd suggest going to the credit union, getting a loan which can be used to pay the sherrif, then selling the car and getting a Leap card. They are simpler and likely to cause her less trouble.

PrettyBoy

Hank Flaky Nurse wrote: »

The case itself is not exactly black and white. She always had an account set up but she had to cancel it because of eflows irregular charging. Taking massive payments out at once at random times. She had a bill of over 150 the day her mortgage came out and then again at Christmas time. As a single mother it left her in a bad situation twice. So she cancelled it.

Your "friend" is lying about the massive charges at random times - they charge monthly and if €150 was debited from her account on one occasion it means that she clocked up €150 worth of tolls that month. The same goes for the charge in December - they don't stop charging people around Christmas.

You won't have to pay the full €6k, they'll probably accept around half that to get it settled. I'd talk to a solicitor in any case.

Carlos Orange

keno-daytrader wrote: »

12 journeys to add up to 6k, does anyone on this thread that is bashing the lady think that 12 trips should add up to 6k?

How much cost has been incurred chasing the payment? There obviously should be a punitive element.

kirving

psinno wrote: »

How much cost has been incurred chasing the payment? There obviously should be a punitive element.

Fair enough, they should be allowed to recoup their costs - otherwise no-one would pay.

6k for 12 journeys is off the wall though. And people moan about Apple not being fair....

Tzardine

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Fair enough, they should be allowed to recoup their costs - otherwise no-one would pay.

6k for 12 journeys is off the wall though. And people moan about Apple not being fair....

elastico

Hank Flaky Nurse wrote: »

I'm just looking to get some helpful advice.

My friend had her car towed away by the Sheriff yesterday morning for an unpaid eflow bill.

The case itself is not exactly black and white. She always had an account set up but she had to cancel it because of eflows irregular charging. Taking massive payments out at once at random times. She had a bill of over 150 the day her mortgage came out and then again at Christmas time. As a single mother it left her in a bad situation twice. So she cancelled it.

During that time between cancelling she had 12 journeys built up and only realised when the letters came in the door. She rang eflow to pay the journeys but they would not wave the fee. She explained the situation prior and still they did not care. So her stance with eflow and the solicitors was that she would not be paying the extra charges and will happily go to court and fight her case.

So yesterday without warning the sheriff towed the car away. A new car at that and not the one she used on the toll bridge. The bill 6000!!! Eflow said its nothing to do with them. The sheriff won't talk on the phone, assistant is saying to make him an offer of at least 3k and the solicitors don't want to know either.

She is a single mother with a mortgage and a brand new job and is completely lost right now. The whole scenario is insane especially when you factor in how this initially happened. How can she fight her case and get her car back without paying the sheriff? Remembering of course that all calls are recorded and that she offered to pay the tolls without fees as it was eflows errors that led to her cancelling her account.

Drives new car but can't afford to pay. Welcome back celtic tiger.

L1011

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Fair enough, they should be allowed to recoup their costs - otherwise no-one would pay.

6k for 12 journeys is off the wall though. And people moan about Apple not being fair....

6k for 12 journeys, 12 x numerous letters, solicitors involvement, court time, sheriffs costs.

ED E

L1011 wrote: »

6k for 12 journeys, 12 x numerous letters, solicitors involvement, court time, sheriffs costs.

You won't convince the SJW brigade no matter how accurate and precise you are.

Walter2016

Bandana boy wrote: »

Why don't they use the sheriff more for fines and the like instead of putting people in jail , if it became known that not paying bills you would lose your stuff at a bad price exchange plus the fee for the sheriff every time we wouldn't have so many people refusing to pay Water charges etc .

I can have some sympathy for your friend in that she is probably in an awful place because of a ~40 bill , but thems are the rules.

System has changed since last April - no jail for non payment of fines. No more revolving prison door.

If you don't pay they put attachment on earnings or social welfare.

Walter2016

GrumpyMe wrote: »

Am I missing something?
How can the sheriff find out, for sure, she is the rightful owner the car, especially since a different one was used to incur the tolls?

Sheriff has a lot of powers and one check on the registration number will give all information required.

Again no sympathy for her. I'm using tag for years without any issues. I reckon issues were more like excuses not to pay - if issues were genuine they'd be rectified.

Over 500 cases went to sheriff last year and three cases resulted in criminal prosecution. One was fined €25,000

Carlos Orange

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Fair enough, they should be allowed to recoup their costs - otherwise no-one would pay.

6k for 12 journeys is off the wall though. And people moan about Apple not being fair....

Recouping costs would not be punitive.

punitive
ˈpjuːnɪtɪv/Submit
adjective
inflicting or intended as punishment.

dresden8

flatty wrote: »

If I may add something on eflow's behalf, I have had problems with billing before on the m50 when home from England on holiday. Forgot to pay initially, but rang them, and no problems at all. My bro racked up about six journeys went I loaned him my car. I had no idea, but when I went to add into the account they drew it to my attention. They waived the fine and just debited the correct amount. I have never found them anything other than flexible and pleasant to deal with, and would look on them as gold standard in customer care.

Same here. Didn't pay a couple of trips because I was in my new car. Set up an account and they just deducted the original charges, no penalties or fees. Found them very efficient and friendly to deal with. Absolutely no problems.