AMD Zen Discussion Thread

Venom

deceit wrote: »

If you watch the video you will see he was monitoring temps on the vrms and didn't have any issues with it.
If all you want is a basic fast rig on a budget it could be useful for some. Its not like the low end am3 boards that throttled cpu's like crazy as would hit 100c on the vrms.

He was getting temps in the 70's on the vrms. Even being low quality should be fine just don't expect to go over the 65w tdp parts like he stated.
Zen 2 is not a good overclocker so that's no loss losing that feature tbh.

That's all well and good when the system is only going to be running for a few days while a video is being shot but for day in day out use over a year or two would be a much different story.

deceit

Venom wrote: »

deceit wrote: »

If you watch the video you will see he was monitoring temps on the vrms and didn't have any issues with it.
If all you want is a basic fast rig on a budget it could be useful for some. Its not like the low end am3 boards that throttled cpu's like crazy as would hit 100c on the vrms.

He was getting temps in the 70's on the vrms. Even being low quality should be fine just don't expect to go over the 65w tdp parts like he stated.
Zen 2 is not a good overclocker so that's no loss losing that feature tbh.

That's all well and good when the system is only going to be running for a few days while a video is being shot but for day in day out use over a year or two would be a much different story.

I doubt this as heat usually kills vrms over 105 before worrying

AirBiscuit

Is there any real downside to picking up a 2700X now that Zen2 is out? The price keeps falling compared to the newer stuff so that's piqued my interest.

Subcomandante Marcos

AirBiscuit wrote: »

Is there any real downside to picking up a 2700X now that Zen2 is out? The price keeps falling compared to the newer stuff so that's piqued my interest.

If you need the extra cores, maybe. If its for gaming, the 3600 will out perform it.

The 2600 is ridiculously good value right now though.

.G.

Tried some things with our 3600. Its boosting all the time, like with 1 or 2% core usage its boosting to 4200mhz which is what is keeping temps high, 60c and above when the pc is doing little or nothing, it never settles, always up and down. It seems to be caused by Corsair iCue and Discord. if I close both of them it settles down, boosts less frequently and temps settle as a result, mid 40s boosting to mid 50s and back again. Not sure why it needs to constantly max itself out all the time just to run a chat program and iCue

Played with voltages in the bios, manually set it at 1.2v which kept temps in the low 40s but the chip wouldn't boost at all then, changed it back to auto and it still wouldn't boost. Had to load optimized defaults to get it boosting again.

Going off the jaytwocentz video, voltages in the bios seem ok, not like the asus bios in his video. Mild overvolting of the RAM but thats it, have that manually set now.

AirBiscuit

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

If you need the extra cores, maybe. If its for gaming, the 3600 will out perform it.

The 2600 is ridiculously good value right now though.

FFmpeg (vp9 and x264), blender, and game streaming. Maybe some virtualisation and dedicated servers, but other than those mostly gaming, including VR

Subcomandante Marcos

AirBiscuit wrote: »

FFmpeg (vp9 and x264), blender, and game streaming. Maybe some virtualisation and dedicated servers, but other than those mostly gaming, including VR

Have a look at the comparison benchmarks from GamersNexus they'll give you a good idea of which will be the better value for yourself.

Just as an aside, don't bother with the 2700x. The non x with a modest overclock will perform within margins of error as it's physically the same CPU, just clocked higher.

K.O.Kiki

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Have a look at the comparison benchmarks from GamersNexus they'll give you a good idea of which will be the better value for yourself.

Just as an aside, don't bother with the 2700x. The non x with a modest overclock will perform within margins of error as it's physically the same CPU, just clocked higher.

2700X comes with a better stock cooler - it's good enough to equal most 120mm towers & is RGB-lit, too.

It's also slightly better binned - most should be able to reach 4.15 if not 4.2GHz https://siliconlottery.com/pages/statistics. Some more reading: https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/06/01/amd_ryzen_7_2700_overclocking_review/

H3llR4iser

.G. wrote: »

Tried some things with our 3600. Its boosting all the time, like with 1 or 2% core usage its boosting to 4200mhz which is what is keeping temps high, 60c and above when the pc is doing little or nothing, it never settles, always up and down. It seems to be caused by Corsair iCue and Discord. if I close both of them it settles down, boosts less frequently and temps settle as a result, mid 40s boosting to mid 50s and back again. Not sure why it needs to constantly max itself out all the time just to run a chat program and iCue

Played with voltages in the bios, manually set it at 1.2v which kept temps in the low 40s but the chip wouldn't boost at all then, changed it back to auto and it still wouldn't boost. Had to load optimized defaults to get it boosting again.

Going off the jaytwocentz video, voltages in the bios seem ok, not like the asus bios in his video. Mild overvolting of the RAM but thats it, have that manually set now.

Yeah, it is explained by the AMD representative in the Reddit post that was linked a few messages ago - programs that briefly "pool" the CPU like iCue, NZXT CAM, Motherboard Monitor and such cause the cores to boost up permanently as if they were getting 100% usage.

It's apparently an issue caused by a suboptimal BIOS implementation of AMD's revised boosting policy, designed to be more reactive than on the older one employed on Ryzen 1x000 and 2x000 - as a matter of fact I see this exact issue on my own 1700: I need to switch the power plan to "High performance" and keep it locked at 3.8Ghz on all cores, otherwise the CPU simply drops down to 1.6Ghz as soon as load decreases.

It's basically a royal PIA - hopefully they solve it soon.

As for bargains, A320 mobos and such...I wouldn't bother. Something I've learnt the hard way in the past is that with PC builds, often "saving" money is simply not worth the headaches and compromises. Trying to get a 3rd Gen Ryzen on an A320/B350 motherboard might work, but it's like buying a Ferrari and putting knock-off Chinese tires on it.

deceit

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Yeah, it is explained by the AMD representative in the Reddit post that was linked a few messages ago - programs that briefly "pool" the CPU like iCue, NZXT CAM, Motherboard Monitor and such cause the cores to boost up permanently as if they were getting 100% usage.

It's apparently an issue caused by a suboptimal BIOS implementation of AMD's revised boosting policy, designed to be more reactive than on the older one employed on Ryzen 1x000 and 2x000 - as a matter of fact I see this exact issue on my own 1700: I need to switch the power plan to "High performance" and keep it locked at 3.8Ghz on all cores, otherwise the CPU simply drops down to 1.6Ghz as soon as load decreases.

It's basically a royal PIA - hopefully they solve it soon.

As for bargains, A320 mobos and such...I wouldn't bother. Something I've learnt the hard way in the past is that with PC builds, often "saving" money is simply not worth the headaches and compromises. Trying to get a 3rd Gen Ryzen on an A320/B350 motherboard might work, but it's like buying a Ferrari and putting knock-off Chinese tires on it.

I'd say most likely the reason for the cpu's spiking with icue and cam is they are constantly monitoring what you do to sell your data to 3rd parties.
I'm not sure if Discord do this but I wouldn't be surprised to hear it does.

H3llR4iser

deceit wrote: »

I'd say most likely the reason for the cpu's spiking with icue and cam is they are constantly monitoring what you do to sell your data to 3rd parties.
I'm not sure if Discord do this but I wouldn't be surprised to hear it does.

...they are monitoring the motherboard status...they ARE sending "hey sensor, how are you doing?" queries constantly.


Discord polls the microphone continuously - especially if you have the "voice activation" selected.

Canis Lupus

If it's of any use someone has noticed a new BIOS up for the Tomohawk on the FTP server (so nothing official, might not even be beta)

here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MSI_Gaming/comments/ci27m9/new_b450_tomahawk_bios_1a1/

But people appear to be having success by and large. Couple of people saying no change but it looks like stability is on the way. Not sure I'm willing to flash to a bios not officially announced yet though.

The only Power Plan that is giving me good temps is the Power Saving one in Windows. It's in the low 30's. All other ones are giving me 50's.
That's with a Aorus X570 Elite with the most up to date BIOS.

Canis Lupus

Deleted User wrote: »

The only Power Plan that is giving me good temps is the Power Saving one in Windows. It's in the low 30's. All other ones are giving me 50's.
That's with a Aorus X570 Elite with the most up to date BIOS.

Doesn't power saver stop the card from boosting though which is why you're seeing lower temps but also potentially neutering the performance?

I changed back to Balanced and am getting around 32c now. Spikes to the mid 40's for a millisecond now and then.

Polar101

I've been running 3700X a few days now. I'm using the "windows balanced" powerplan and voltages are around 1.28V-1.29V in Windows, and 1.4Vish under load. Temperatures in idle between 40-50 and 50-60 under load. It doesn't seem too bad. Pretty much everything is on "auto" in BIOS.

I did have my first boot failure, but at least the PC started on the 2nd attempt.

Running on Windows 10 v1809, haven't updated to v1903 yet, and still using an "old" MSI BIOS (B450M Mortar, v18).

I would like to see lower voltages, but I'm thinking the CPU won't overcook while I wait for BIOS/Chipset updates.

Very happy with the CPU so far.

Canis Lupus

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ciajef/placeholder_update_on_whea_warnings_destiny_2_and/


Please set a remindme! on this post for Tuesday morning (30 July) Central Daylight Saving Time (CDT). We have a comprehensive update coming for you regarding the WHEA warnings in the Windows Event Log; Destiny 2 game launch; and desktop idle behavior.

We're putting the finishing touches on it, and wanted to let y'all know when to expect it as soon as I could. I will edit this post with the final details on 7/30.

Canis Lupus

So I got impatient as I was seeing plenty of people having success. Tried that unknown bios and it appears to far to have solved the boot issues for the tomohawk.. Not particular seeing any change with idle speeds etc. I hope that'll be chipset drivers. But main problem solved so happy days for now.

EDIT: I used the flashback method and left everything plugged in. Just popped USB into the right port, pressed button and it sorted itself out and auto rebooted after a few minutes.

EDIT2 actually it seems to have helped. In Monster Hunter World it was sending my temps into the high 70s, currently sitting comfortably on 60c.

Samuel T. Cogley

MY boot issues actually got worse on 1A1 Everything else seems as before. M-flashed the BIOS.

Tried via flashback - same issue.

Oh well wait for the next one I guess.

Glad it's working for you.

Canis Lupus

M flash didn't work for me, had to do flashback but with everything plugged in etc. No stripping the out the cpu or ram. Weird, sorry it didn't help. Maybe try flashback port?

jonerkinsella

Canis Lupus wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ciajef/placeholder_update_on_whea_warnings_destiny_2_and/


Please set a remindme! on this post for Tuesday morning (30 July) Central Daylight Saving Time (CDT). We have a comprehensive update coming for you regarding the WHEA warnings in the Windows Event Log; Destiny 2 game launch; and desktop idle behavior.

We're putting the finishing touches on it, and wanted to let y'all know when to expect it as soon as I could. I will edit this post with the final details on 7/30.

Is it a new bios ?

I received my gaming plus mobo on Friday and flashed it with v19 bios using flashback, it all seems to have went well. I am getting my 3600 on Tuesday to drop into the board. My new ram should be here then as well. Hopefully I've adopted this system just as the creases are all ironed out.

I would imagine it's a new chipset driver.

Canis Lupus

Yeah, I would assume chipset. I expect it'll make the chip less likely to go full nuclear over small tasks and perhaps get reliable low idle speeds and lower temps a touch.

2Mad2BeMad

Lads I sent my PC back to manufacture
I have a b450 tomahawk but I'm wondering should I change it to a x570 board? Or are they suffering the same issues

z0oT

I had planned upgrading to a 3700X from my aging 6700k later in the year when some of the teething issues were worked out, but it looks like I'll now be in the position to do it much sooner instead.

An Asus X470-i Strix motherboard and a 3700X is the plan. I haven't really seen early problems reported with the Asus boards around the net, not to say they're not there.

What's the general consensus among the early adopters here? Wait for issues to be sorted out, or is it better to wait?

Samuel T. Cogley

In my view the 6700K is a grand processor. Wait until the chipset drivers and BIOSes mature.

Samuel T. Cogley

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

Lads I sent my PC back to manufacture
I have a b450 tomahawk but I'm wondering should I change it to a x570 board? Or are they suffering the same issues

Can they offer an alternative B450? The Tomahawk is probably the most problematic board at the moment.

2Mad2BeMad

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Can they offer an alternative B450? The Tomahawk is probably the most problematic board at the moment.

They can but I figured if upgrading to an x570 (gigabyte) which is an extra 80pounds roughly will I be trouble free? Not to worried about future proofing tbh but also don't want any bios problems

I've an Aorus X570. No problems with POSTing whatsoever. Still getting the high idle temps but that should be fixed tomorrow with new AMD drivers fingers crossed.

K.O.Kiki

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The whole internet thing about VRM's is a real load of crap. If your not into some serious overclocking(like sub ambient) or you bought some dodgy Chinese no name brand board, VRM's are not a "consideration". Boards from main brands are built to meet a spec based on the socket. VRM consideration was a factor when considering extreme overclocking and bled into the mainstream because they couldn't find any other way to continue to differentiate boards into some sort of tiered scoring system. Basically, its the only thing left to compare(they all pretty much have the same ports and features within a chipset) but its not really important.

VRM quality & design absolutely matters, especially now that AMD CPUs are going beyond 8 cores & automatically overclock based on temperature.
Also, many VRM heatsinks are terrible - more like heatsoaks that will eventually lead to throttling/overheating.

Watch some more buildzoid videos. He calculates expected power draw / heat output.

Just wanted to put this here instead of the rig-help thread.