AMD Zen Discussion Thread

Cuddlesworth

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

VRM quality & design absolutely matters, especially now that AMD CPUs are going beyond 8 cores & automatically overclock based on temperature.
Also, many VRM heatsinks are terrible - more like heatsoaks that will eventually lead to throttling/overheating.

Watch some more buildzoid videos. He calculates expected power draw / heat output.

Just wanted to put this here instead of the rig-help thread.

Buildzoid, the hardcore overclocker when talking in the context of overclocking?
Gamers Nexus talking about no fans on the VRM in the context of something like a water pump in a open air rig?
Or Gamers Nexus doing extreme overclocking with LN2?

How about you post some decent examples, like a person running a 3600 on A320 MITX mobo with no VRM's and running fine?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF8EuEfKH3Q

Even a 3900x in a A320 board just down clocks slightly on boost and all core.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69jw9i4p4-Y

Those are worst case examples, Ryzen 3000 is not even supported on those boards And yet it takes the 12 core to start putting their power delivery down. When you get into the B350 territory, you will struggle to find any real difference in boost results from the higher end boards at stock.

You see a lot of these VRM teir lists referencing needing "airflow" over the VRM's. What they are actually saying is you could do with a heatsink that pushes air over the board, not a AIO/waterblock that doesn't.

K.O.Kiki

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Buildzoid, the hardcore overclocker when talking in the context of overclocking?
Gamers Nexus talking about no fans on the VRM in the context of something like a water pump in a open air rig?
Or Gamers Nexus doing extreme overclocking with LN2?

This isn't while LN2-overclocking.
He's calculating at pretty normal voltages, e.g. within PBO range.

How about you post some decent examples, like a person running a 3600 on A320 MITX mobo with no VRM's and running fine?

3600 = 6 cores, lower power draw than 2600/2700. Of course it runs fine.

Even a 3900x in a A320 board just down clocks slightly on boost and all core.

Did you not read my above post?

Once you go OVER 8 cores (or even the 1000/2000-series 8-core CPUs) the amount of power can overwhelm the VRMs unless they're well designed & cooled.

And VRM temperatures matter. If they're running 100-105 they're exponentially lowering their lifetime compared if they were running at 80-90 - IIRC 2'500 hours vs 20'000.

Cuddlesworth

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Once you go OVER 8 cores (or even the 1000/2000-series 8-core CPUs) the amount of power can overwhelm the VRMs unless they're well designed & cooled.

And VRM temperatures matter. If they're running 100-105 they're exponentially lowering their lifetime compared if they were running at 80-90 - IIRC 2'500 hours vs 20'000.

Nothing wrong with circa 100 degrees on VRM's, thats within spec according to buildzoid.

Here is a 3900x on a B350 board with garbage tier VRM's running fine with airflow.

Anything else?

K.O.Kiki

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Nothing wrong with circa 100 degrees on VRM's, thats within spec according to buildzoid.

Here is a 3900x on a B350 board with garbage tier VRM's running fine with airflow.

Anything else?

z0oT

Regarding VRMs, you shouldn't have to worry about VRM temperatures at all unless you overclock.

If that isn't the case, the board manafacturer has done a crappy job and is inviting slews of RMA's given they likely can't guarantee they'll work for the warranty period.

shootermacg

Almost about to pull the trigger on a full new system on Amazon.
The problem is next to the 3700x in the basket, it says usually ships within 1 to 2 months.....

Seriously 1 to 2 bloody months?!!!

Xenoronin

shootermacg wrote: »

Almost about to pull the trigger on a full new system on Amazon.
The problem is next to the 3700x in the basket, it says usually ships within 1 to 2 months.....

Seriously 1 to 2 bloody months?!!!

Just get it from somewhere else: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/amd-ryzen-7-3700x-eight-core-4.4ghz-socket-am4-processor-retail-cp-3b7-am.html

witnessmenow

Just bought a Asus prime x570-p, kind of disgusted to be paying £120 on top of the of the Tomahawk, but at this stage I just want the bloody thing working!

Samuel T. Cogley

witnessmenow wrote: »

Just bought a Asus prime x570-p, kind of disgusted to be paying £120 on top of the of the Tomahawk, but at this stage I just want the bloody thing working!

Don't forget to thank Borris for making it cheaper :pac:

I see there are a couple of new BIOS updates out from MSI. Did you try that one before sending the board back?

Also,

https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2019/07/30/community-update-5-let-s-talk-clocks-voltages-and-destiny-2

witnessmenow

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Don't forget to thank Borris for making it cheaper :pac:

If only I returned my motherboard to Amazon sooner I could have really played the market!

Deleted User wrote: »

I see there are a couple of new BIOS updates out from MSI. Did you try that one before sending the board back?

I saw that, I tried the unreleased one from the FTP server the other day and that didn't work. I see on reddit that it is different, but seems like people are having the same issues.

At this stage the new motherboard is purchased, I'm not sure I could cancel it now if I wanted to, so I don't think I'll even bother trying the new one.

Just installed the new drivers. Idling at 26c at around 1.1v. All looks to be good so far.

.G.

Ours it at 1.1v too but still up in the 40s using the wraith. I have to take a look at the cooling.

jonerkinsella

Alrighty then...

I dropped my 3600 into the MSI b450 Gaming Plus with the Ballistix memory I purchased and it all fired up on the second boot into the bios. Grand.

I added the second stick of ram, still all good. Put my RX480 into it, still grand... So I turned back on my intel system and uninstalled all my Intel and related drivers, set my M.2 drive to boot into safe mode with networking on next boot, inserted the M.2 into the AMD system, fired it up and, booted straight away. I installed latest chipset drivers and that's about it. I decided to put it into the case and it's all good.

No problems what so ever. Farcry 5 ran great.

Bios 19.

Sorted.

Now to sell my 5930k system.

deceit

jonerkinsella wrote: »

Alrighty then...

I dropped my 3600 into the MSI b450 Gaming Plus with the Ballistix memory I purchased and it all fired up on the second boot into the bios. Grand.

I added the second stick of ram, still all good. Put my RX480 into it, still grand... So I turned back on my intel system and uninstalled all my Intel and related drivers, set my M.2 drive to boot into safe mode with networking on next boot, inserted the M.2 into the AMD system, fired it up and, booted straight away. I installed latest chipset drivers and that's about it. I decided to put it into the case and it's all good.

No problems what so ever. Farcry 5 ran great.

Bios 19.

Sorted.

Now to sell my 5930k system.

Id be curious how much of a performance increase you see with the 3600 over the 5930k.
I had a 5820k and moved to a 1950x. I noticed the framerate dropped in some games but stutter was removed.

Canis Lupus

Tried the new chipset, only briefly mind as it was 4am here and I was just checking it before heading to work. Seemed to bring temps down but in ryzen master even when it showed all cores asleep I'm pulling 1.4v. CPUID shows a more fluctuating voltage.

I did read briefly that someone mentioned the new official bios from MSI sorted his but I wasn't going to be flashing a BIOS at that hour so I'll check later.

With these new lower temp readings I'm hoping the fan will be less inclined to ramp up and down constantly or that a fan curve will sort it easily. It's surprisingly annoying and I'm loath to buy an aftermarket cooler when the only advantage to the 3600x was seemingly a better cooler :P

TerrorFirmer

deceit wrote: »

Id be curious how much of a performance increase you see with the 3600 over the 5930k.
I had a 5820k and moved to a 1950x. I noticed the framerate dropped in some games but stutter was removed.

I honestly wouldn't imagine you'd see much of an upgrade, assuming anyone with a 5930/5820k would have a decent OC applied.

It's more of a sideways move to a new modern platform really, the 5930K would've probably been 3x the price of a 3600 on release!

What was stuttering out of curiosity?

Canis Lupus

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Tried the new chipset, only briefly mind as it was 4am here and I was just checking it before heading to work. Seemed to bring temps down but in ryzen master even when it showed all cores asleep I'm pulling 1.4v. CPUID shows a more fluctuating voltage.

I did read briefly that someone mentioned the new official bios from MSI sorted his but I wasn't going to be flashing a BIOS at that hour so I'll check later.

With these new lower temp readings I'm hoping the fan will be less inclined to ramp up and down constantly or that a fan curve will sort it easily. It's surprisingly annoying and I'm loath to buy an aftermarket cooler when the only advantage to the 3600x was seemingly a better cooler :P

Now that the new driver is out i'd say new BIOS's will be out in the next few weeks after they're tested. Should iron things out further.

Canis Lupus

Deleted User wrote: »

Now that the new driver is out i'd say new BIOS's will be out in the next few weeks after they're tested. Should iron things out further.

Yeah I'm hopeful that will be the case although plenty of people on the MSI reddit saying it's still not solving their booting issues although I'm wondering if some of these people have genuinely borked hardware rather than it simply being software related at this point.

I'll probably install the official tomohawk bios later as apparently it's different to the unofficial FTP server one I'm just nervy about messing with a system that now works apparently fine

witnessmenow

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Yeah I'm hopeful that will be the case although plenty of people on the MSI reddit saying it's still not solving their booting issues although I'm wondering if some of these people have genuinely borked hardware rather than it simply being software related at this point.

I'll probably install the official tomohawk bios later as apparently it's different to the unofficial FTP server one I'm just nervy about messing with a system that now works apparently fine

I'm on of the people with booting issues, I would be worried about it being a hardware issue if it wasn't for it posting some times (very rarely, but sometimes)

I guess we'll find out on Thursday when my new motherboard arrives!

jonerkinsella

deceit wrote: »

Id be curious how much of a performance increase you see with the 3600 over the 5930k.
I had a 5820k and moved to a 1950x. I noticed the framerate dropped in some games but stutter was removed.

I had a 5820k before the 59. The 59 ran 10deg cooler out of the box. I think the 58 was a much lower binned chip.

I never bothered to clock the 5930k, it done everything I needed it to do as it was.

The 3600 is much zippier alround though. I'm sure if I had of clocked the 59 it would be killer, but I just couldn't be arsed anymore.

The one thing I noticed straight away and miss dreadfully already is that on my X99 board it allowed USB power charging even when turned off. I used this feature every night to charge my phone. Now I have to actually plug a charger into the wall. It feels like I'm going backwards

deceit

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I honestly wouldn't imagine you'd see much of an upgrade, assuming anyone with a 5930/5820k would have a decent OC applied.

It's more of a sideways move to a new modern platform really, the 5930K would've probably been 3x the price of a 3600 on release!

What was stuttering out of curiosity?

Yea thats what I was expecting which is why I was asking about it.
Pubg and h1z1 at the time at 3440x1440 on ultra on an ultrawide. It seemed like it got stuck on a frame for a little too long every once in a while (drove me nuts).

K.O.Kiki

jonerkinsella wrote: »

I had a 5820k before the 59. The 59 ran 10deg cooler out of the box. I think the 58 was a much lower binned chip.

I never bothered to clock the 5930k, it done everything I needed it to do as it was.

The 3600 is much zippier alround though. I'm sure if I had of clocked the 59 it would be killer, but I just couldn't be arsed anymore.

The one thing I noticed straight away and miss dreadfully already is that on my X99 board it allowed USB power charging even when turned off. I used this feature every night to charge my phone. Now I have to actually plug a charger into the wall. It feels like I'm going backwards

Feck, I'm gonna have to join the party too, so?

jonerkinsella

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Feck, I'm gonna have to join the party too, so?

As soon as I turned on Windows I noticed the difference. When I open an application, web surfing etc, I definitely know that I am using a faster system. It's instantly responsive.

My 3600 is hitting 4.2ghz on auto without a problem. It's sitting at about 60deg in games.

Remember that the OS I'm using is not a fresh install, it is my Intel install with new drivers added for the AMD system... and no problems encountered.

I'm happy.

I'm finding the 3600 to be much zippier too. I could get a good OC on my 8600k but was getting stutter in everything i played.
Haven't had one instance of it with the 3600 so far.

shootermacg

Finally pulled the trigger:

AMD Ryzen 7 3700X Processor (8C/16T, 36MB Cache, 4.4 GHz Max Boost)

HyperX Predator HX432C16PB3AK2/32 DDR4 32 GB (Kit of 2 x 16 GB), 3200 MHz CL16 DIMM XMP - RGB

Aorus X570 AORUS ULTRA (Socket AM4/X570/DDR4/S-ATA 600/ATX)

Fractal Design Focus G 2x Silent Fans USB3 Window Panel ATX PC Case - White
Sold by: Scan Computers Intl Ltd

Corsair CP-9020131-UK TXM Series 750 W TX750M ATX/EPS Semi-Modular 80 PLUS Gold Power Supply Unit - Black

WD Black SN750 High-Performance NVMe Internal Gaming SSD, 500 GB

New BIOS updates out for the Aorus X570 boards.

deceit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5slpZpg0_U&t
Bit of news based on cpu fixes and also points out that high end AMD gpu's are coming.

.G.

Christ he's annoying!