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M11/N11 - M50 (J4) to Coyne's Cross (J14) [options published]

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Comments



  • yeah, west side of the road coming out near Jocks pub would also work.





  • Especially with them already proposing a link road to the organic farm and the data centre would have to have provision for internal roads within the development.

    But going back to your previous map, it could also make sense to contuine the new link road from Farrenkelly rd- Kilquade rd further south and through the farmland to link with Garden Village and Ballyronan rd. Ironically, this is the way the n11 should have gone in the late 70s, early 80s rather than dividing Kilpedder in half.

    Same goes for Kilmac, if they had of gone behind the garage (east side) in the 90s it wouldn't be as contentious as it is today.

    So alas, while there are some good elements in the latest plan, I don't believe we won't be back here in 10 or 15 years looking for the latest solution to Wicklow coco's/abp endless granting of residential planning applications with no care for proper public transport infrastructure.





  • I believe there are already plans for a connection from GV to the Newtown-Kilcoole Rd. partly to provide a route from the industrial estate in Kilcoole to the N11 without going through one or other of the village centres.





  • The campaigns are already up and running to save junctions/ direct access to the N11... There's an online petition to "Save Delgany Village Access to N11" by keeping Delgany/ Drummin exits.



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  • yeah and various local politicians have rolled in behind it.

    A lot of people pushing the petition seem to have missed the fact that there will be a new direct flyover between Delgany/Drummin and Willow Grove and are saying Delganians will have go around by Greystones to get to the N11. In reality the extra time to use J11 via Willow Grove will be around 2 minutes max.





  • A lot of those campaigning to "Save Delgany Village Access to N11" are the same short sighted muppets who campaigned for the red route in a knee jerk nimby panic over a motorway through the gold course.

    It was as clear as day that if the red route was chosen Junction 10 would be closed - bit late to be whingeing about it now.





  • I suspect 2 mins is true off peak. I'd say it will be considerably more than 2 minutes extra in rush hour, particularly in the evening with traffic coming off N11 at J11.





  • maybe, at rush hour all bets are off. You want to drive to work, you're going to get stuck in traffic at numerous points along the route.

    at the end of the day, my main concern was that they not widen the road. After that, I don't really care whether they close J10 or not.

    Looking again at the plans for J10, the underpass at Barry's Bridge basically becomes a dead end, or extended driveway for the one house on that side of the road. It would be better if they left the connection to Old-Downs Road in place (& maybe make the road 2-way again)





  • Also curious to see how they plan to deal with this little cul-de-sac access to 2 houses and a farmyard on the west of of the Glen - it's not straightforward to connect it to J9.



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  • They also still have to deal with the active travel component of the scheme too. It's very light on detail, in my albeit limited experience of such projects, for this stage? A lot left to be dealt with/ options to be considered/ can kicked down the virtual access road....

    Edit - also the public transport component!





  • that did occur to me, but it depends on who own the land and the existing laneway in. seriously slow circuitous route on crappy boreens for the house nearest the N11 too.

    another option would be to connect it to the hotel carpark, but I'd imagine the hotel owners wouldn't be keen on that.





  • Nice bit of extra road frontage all the same...





  • They'll probably end up having to cpo the complete properties if owners are not prepared to accept massive detour via boreens.





  • 3km on boreens wouldn't be considered 'massive' by many people in rural Ireland, but for someone used to leaving within a few hundred metres of the N11 I agree it would be a big change. Tough decision though, most people would probably prefer to stay in the family home and maybe accept some lesser compensation.

    Are there any access rights to 'routes' in Ireland? As long as they can access a road connected to the road network, then they have no recourse to compensation. When a new road was built near us growing up, we lost the road I used to go to school on. The alternative was a kilometre longer and more dangerous by bike. Should we have gotten compensation?





  • How long was the the journey on the old road you went to school on?





  • I don't think you should have got compensation for this road, because it appears that whilst you were inconvenienced your property rights were not interfered with.

    Very different to the case of a house whose access to national road network of of a couple hundred metres is forced closed and replaced with alternative access to national road network via 3km of boreens. That would certainly seem massive compared to what they're used to and a clear interference with their property rights.





  • This is it in a nutshell. It seems a lot of people don't want change and also many don't realise that being so vocal against an offline upgrade the red option would change the way we use the current road for ever. The residents of Delgany seem to want to have their cake and eat it.



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  • Most of that alternative route is a private farm track. The first turn off Red Lane is still a public road, but the next turn is not. If the track is owned by one of those 2 houses, it might not be an issue, but if it isn't they'd have to CPO the track and make it a public road (and probably surface it properly as well).





  • Harsh :) What about our own house? We had direct road frontage onto a National road, even the express from Dublin would drop me off at the door if there were few left on. We went from 10m to 850m to the National road when the new one was laid down. A bigger percentage change.





  • It's all too messy, which is exactly why I think they'll have to CPO the houses that are losing access at that point.





  • But they did they shut your access to the road or just downgrade the road you had access to and put a new national road somewhere else?





  • it would be unusual to CPO houses that aren't actually affected by the road. They're not really doing anything with the N11 itself at that point and those houses are hundreds of metres from the road anyway. One of them is probably a farmhouse too. I'd say they'll find some solution; maybe throw some money at the owner of the laneway to allow access.





  • Just realised they may end up having to CPO 50+ acres of land up there too if much of that land is in the ownership of one of those houses! That'll be pricey! I guess they might look to link it off the road to the south that winds up past the old Glen of the Downs industrial estate, but that could be messy too.





  • something like this might be possible too, but again they'd have to pay the hotel to secure access rights:






  • Downgraded the road and blocked 1 end. So no difference if we were going one direction. But if we were going the other direction it was 4km longer, albeit on good roads.





  • Going through the hotel grounds would be tough to sort out from an insurance point of view?

    Would this be an easier option?




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  • You're not looking at a flat map lads, that farm is essentially in a valley, will involve a steep road out no matter which way they go to solve.



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