M11/N11 - M50 (J4) to Coyne's Cross (J14) [options published]

loyatemu

Sam Russell wrote: »

Before they redid the Kilcroney Cross up towards Enniskerry, the left turn was particularly bad/dagerous with plenty of signs of cars straying into the grass and not quite making the turn. They appear to have fixed that now - I think previously there was the wrong camber on it that threw cars over to the right if they were going anyway quick.

that's another location where there are too many junctions in quick succession.

AAAAAAAAA

prunudo wrote: »

If I have this right, the purpose of this upgrade is to add a 3rd lane, whether that be a bus lane or for general traffic. I can't think of anywhere where we current have a 3 lane tunnel. Port tunnel, Limerick, Jack Lynch all 2 lanes. Even tunnels I remember from the UK are only 2 lane.

I reckon you'd have to look as far as Paris to find a decent section of tunneled motorway that's 3 lanes in each direction, and maybe as far as the Oslo or the Alps to find one that's 3+3 and also around 3km long as this would be. While I'm not adverse to the idea of tunneling itself, the costs of building what will be a minimum of two 12m wide roadbeds for 3km is going to be very significant - so significant in fact that you could probably build a 2+2 tunnel and also a tunnel through Bray head for a lot less, while giving a lot more to public transport

marno21

prunudo wrote: »

If I have this right, the purpose of this upgrade is to add a 3rd lane, whether that be a bus lane or for general traffic. I can't think of anywhere where we current have a 3 lane tunnel. Port tunnel, Limerick, Jack Lynch all 2 lanes. Even tunnels I remember from the UK are only 2 lane. From a safety point of view, would a 3 lane tunnel be problematic. Just wonder is this tunnel idea really a runner at all.
I'd prefer they put a tbm under Bray head to increase the train capacity if they're going to all that trouble tbh.

JLT was originally to be one lane in either direction.

Looking in Ireland for infrastructure to provide anything beyond the bare minimum capacity required is a futile exercise.

Macy0161

Don't see how they could possibly justify a tunnel for a road, when a tunnel would enable dual track to Greystones (and then beyond), and possible dart expansion south too.

marno21

It's not just private motorists on the N11. The N11 is a multimodal corridor.

The rail line is a separate discussion to this thread. I made a thread on this exact issue here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110055701

If they are tunnelling the M11 there is no reason why they don't do the same with the rail line.

punisher5112

From my experience many of the crashes were in the wet, water collects at certain points and there is a couple of spots where the water flows like a river across, these I've seen caused numerous spin outs and crashes into the centre concrete blocks and sometimes off the side.

I've seen 3 big ones where they were heading south and hit on the bad bend going into the glen turn....

I was out route training years ago and a BMW passed, there were quite a few cars and vans and he hit the standing water, the car spun, hit the concrete and took a van in front of me out of it towing a trailer, luckily I was traveling far enough back as this was when there was no restricted speed on the buses.

Some are tyre blow outs too.

See plenty of the centre divide hedges taken out quite recently, looks to be most likely people falling asleep though as the angle the cars went in.

loyatemu

marno21 wrote: »

It's not just private motorists on the N11. The N11 is a multimodal corridor.

it's the private motorists that cause the congestion. it's uncongested 18 hours of the day at least.

BraveDonut

Is it just me or is the work at Kilmacanogue moving at an absolute snail's pace.
I don't often drive through (I did today), but any time that I do, there seems to be very, very little activity.

If I remember correctly, this was originally due to be completed in February but, even with Covid based delays, it still look nowhere nearing completion.

They seem to have form here with the original GOTD upgrade taking 4 years to complete.

spacetweek

The work is just to add frontage roads, right? Any map of the changes to be made anywhere?

hometruths

New bulletin out: Bulletin #8 – Transport
Scenarios Update https://n11m11.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Public-Consultation-Interim-Update-May-2021.pdf

Discussion of rail/bus/park and ride solutions. Basically seems to be a wordy way of not saying very much at all. Very little in the way of new information.

loyatemu

schmittel wrote: »

New bulletin out this morning: Bulletin #8 – Transport
Scenarios Update https://n11m11.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Public-Consultation-Interim-Update-May-2021.pdf

Discussion of rail/bus/park and ride solutions. Basically seems to be a wordy way of not saying very much at all. Very little in the way of new information.

basically saying "all that stuff we said about looking at the overall transport picture? Forget it, we're building a big road."

hometruths

loyatemu wrote: »

basically saying "all that stuff we said about looking at the overall transport picture? Forget it, we're building a big road."

I'm not so sure. I think that it could be viewed either way - i.e its vague enough to read it and think, depending on your point of view:

Pfft, that's basically say we're teeing up to announce a big new offline motorway section on the cyan route.

or equally

Pfft, that's basically saying we're teeing up to announce ploughing through the Glen of the Downs to widen the existing road.

It suspect they already know exactly which way they're going, I wonder what the delay in announcing it continues to be?

donvito99

schmittel wrote: »

, I wonder what the delay in announcing it continues to be?

Eamon Ryan. The M20 pales in comparison to this project i.e. the Glen, the fact that there already is a dual carriageway, increased car commuting.

Reuben1210

donvito99 wrote: »

Eamon Ryan. The M20 pales in comparison to this project i.e. the Glen, the fact that there already is a dual carriageway, increased car commuting.

Eamon Ryan indeed. Bear in mind he once claimed he was living with the 'Eco-warriors' 20 years ago protesting the original upgrade!

hometruths

donvito99 wrote: »

Eamon Ryan. The M20 pales in comparison to this project i.e. the Glen, the fact that there already is a dual carriageway, increased car commuting.

You're probably right. Either way it is not a good look for Eamonn Ryan - does he stand over a brand new motorway or ploughing through an SAC?

But it seems to be one or the other. So no point in delaying the inevitable.

donvito99

schmittel wrote: »

You're probably right. Either way it is not a good look for Eamonn Ryan - does he stand over a brand new motorway or ploughing through an SAC?

But it seems to be one or the other. So no point in delaying the inevitable.

Well I think Ryan and others have a third option in mind - modify the existing route (close junctions, minor widening where necessary, local distributor roads, new bridges) and basically leave it as is. It's too short of a stretch to justify a parallel route and both roads will run out of room at the northern leg of the M11 in any case.

He doesn't want to encourage more sprawl along roads and if anything he'll suggest road pricing to hit existing congestion to make room for the goods and buses being moved on the existing road.

hometruths

donvito99 wrote: »

Well I think Ryan and others have a third option in mind - modify the existing route (close junctions, minor widening where necessary, local distributor roads, new bridges) and basically leave it as is. It's too short of a stretch to justify a parallel route and both roads will run out of room at the northern leg of the M11 in any case.

He doesn't want to encourage more sprawl along roads and if anything he'll suggest road pricing to hit existing congestion to make room for the goods and buses being moved on the existing road.

That makes a lot of sense in theory from Ryan's point of view, but I suspect the problem is minor widening where necessary vs minor widening where possible.

To address the problems identified in the project brief, they need to solve the safety and traffic issues caused by GOTD bottleneck which I think might require more widening than is possible in the Glen.

prunudo

schmittel wrote: »

You're probably right. Either way it is not a good look for Eamonn Ryan - does he stand over a brand new motorway or ploughing through an SAC?

But it seems to be one or the other. So no point in delaying the inevitable.

Ryan will hmm and haw over this and many other projects, stick his head in the sand and essentially delay desperately needed infrastructure upgrades. His actions will neither get roads nor improved greener solutions, just kick the can down the road and leave the next transport minister to deal.with it.

prunudo

I'd imagine we have to be coming close to getting some news on this soon. Have the end of Aug/summer in my head for next update for some reason.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117741080#Comment_117741080

With good reason it would appear. They are announcing the preferred route option on Monday:

An online public display event is being held to inform the public and stakeholders of the Preferred Option identified for the scheme, the work undertaken to date and the programme for advancement of the project. This non-statutory consultation event also provides an opportunity for feedback and observations to be submitted regarding the process and conclusions reached to date, which may inform the further development of the scheme in the next phases. In consideration of the COVID-19 pandemic, Wicklow County Council will hold a 3 week online public display event which will be available on the project website www.n11m11.ie . This event will go live from 5pm on Monday 30 August 2021 until Monday 20 September 2021 and the online platform will provide access to a consultation room containing a display of information boards and maps describing the preferred option. 

https://n11m11.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Bulletin-9-Public-Display.pdf

vickers209

looking at the blue route i notice these houses inside the boundary line at garden village newtown junction 12 will these have to be cpo/delmolished if this route is selected?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117810088#Comment_117810088

Unlikely I would have thought - the blue corridor is 300m wide but they are not going to use all of it. If they go blue the main road is likely to veer away from those houses somewhere south of them, and the existing road would be quieter serving more local traffic.

As far as those houses go I suspect impact might be greater from red route as existing road may be widened towards them.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804666#Comment_117804666

Given the uselessness of this new site, I'm only seeing your reply now. Any idea if effected landowners will find out today by post before it goes live?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117821600#Comment_117821600

Not sure to be honest, but I don't think so. I think this stage "Publication of Preferred Route" is still just indicative of what they're planning, and there is further consultation etc before notifying specific landowners. Then they design the actual works and after that they start to talk to individuals directly affected.

Having said that if they go with red landowners already have a pretty good idea of whether or not they will be affected because that corridor has already been drawn pretty specifically. The blue remains a 300m wide option.

My thinking is they will go with the combination of red and purple - i.e the tunnel through the glen. Although when I first saw it mooted I thought it was a bananas idea, but in terms of getting the project over the line it probably makes the most sense. It avoids a fight over the SAC which is their biggest hurdle, and it would appear to be the only choice Eamonn Ryan can spin favourably. As Minister for Transport, presumably he has had an input.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117821642#Comment_117821642

Yeah, I think you're probably right. The boundary detail of the red would lead me to think they've done a lot of work on this end already.

How long does it usually take for design, minimum 6-12 months I presume.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117821657#Comment_117821657

Again no idea, but I guess they'd give themselves 12 months. They could probably do it much quicker, because as you say it looks like they have done a lot of the work already given the detail of the red corridor.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117821700#Comment_117821700

Hopefully it goes as favourable as possible for you later, just a waiting game now.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117821755#Comment_117821755

I just got a letter. :(

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117822387#Comment_117822387

Oh, good bad or as expected. I better check in with my parents.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117822478#Comment_117822478

Bad but as expected. Just says my property is located within the preferred route corridor which means that they are definitely going for red. They may also go for tunnel too.