M11/N11 - M50 (J4) to Coyne's Cross (J14) [options published]

looking at the blue route i notice these houses inside the boundary line at garden village newtown junction 12 will these have to be cpo/delmolished if this route is selected?

Given the uselessness of this new site, I'm only seeing your reply now. Any idea if effected landowners will find out today by post before it goes live?

Yeah, I think you're probably right. The boundary detail of the red would lead me to think they've done a lot of work on this end already.

How long does it usually take for design, minimum 6-12 months I presume.

Hopefully it goes as favourable as possible for you later, just a waiting game now.

Oh, good bad or as expected. I better check in with my parents.

Yeah, parents got letters too, doesn't give detail of how much it will encroach into their property, interactive map is still showing the previous options.

Only time will tell now.

Any offline road here was never realistic, they were only included to go through the motions and say they looked at everything. Once offline aroundKilmac was ruled out, it didn'tmake sense to spend a fortune further south while the northern end remained a bottleneck. It would take years of planning and even if approved, probably wouldn't get built due to being at odds with government policy and/or cost reasons.

The problem of over capacity on approach to Dublin will still exist and adding capacity further south is only going to exasperate that problem. Where this proposal is disappointing is the lack of consideration for alternative methods of transport, particularly the lack of bus lanes at the northern end where additional lanes are to be provided.

Some of the junction proposals look like they could be better. I thought a roundabout setup like M4 J6 would have been a better option at J5, should fit and higher capacity. I don't understand why it isn't proposed to upgrade J8 to a full dumbbell which looks relatively easy to achieve. Going to this level of work but leaving J9 as is stupid. They should look at building a new junction slightly further north and a new access road to Greystones from it.

I'm happy to see they've mostly gone with my suggestions 😎

essentially tidying up the mainline, removing extraneous junctions, doing what they can to get local and non-motor traffic off the dualler and putting in bus lanes (actually having looked at the details,. they're not committing to this but it's being "investigated")

I can live with that - anything else would have involved throwing vast sums of money at car-based commuting.

I had expected to see more about parallel road infrastructure further south (which would also provide offline cycling routes). Maybe this will be dealt with in the next phase but it looks like it still won't be possible to go from (say) Kilpedder to Kilmac without using the N11 through the Glen, or from Kilpedder to Newtown to Ashford without taking to the boreens. This would seem to preclude redesignating the road to motorway.

they specifically said they weren't examining rail options as part of this project because Dart+ would contain proposals for the south-eastern line.

A more frequent rail service to Wicklow Town is a no-brainer but it will probably be an hourly shuttle to Greystones with only the Wexford trains running through to the city.

on the N11 plans, the cross sections would seem to preclude bus lanes where service roads are taking away the hard-shoulders. If the idea is for buses to use the service roads it seems likely they'll just get caught in traffic on those instead (i.e. if the service roads are quieter than the mainline, then people will just use them as rat runs to save themselves 30 seconds and the traffic will balance out with the service roads effectively become extra N11 lanes).

Last I looked at the DART+ plans though there was nothing mentioned for south of Greystones which is no help for easing traffic through GOTD or attempting to invest in greener transport... I agree a frequent rail service is a no brainer if they are in any way serious about public transport, but see no evidence they really are. If it is a shuttle to Greystones or takes up a Dart slot an hour further into town, either would be a massive improvement on the joke it currently is.

I dont understand the proposal for the southbound merge to be closed at J5, I dont see the benefit to it particularly given they are suggesting leaving far worse merges as they are further south. Like I said above, I think an alternative junction design at J5 should be considered and also incorporating bus priority measures. Creating a higher capacity junction at J5 could be used to justify closing J6, although I'm sure there would still be some opposition. It could be a case of proposing something basic now, then improving the design at the next stage as a way of pacifying people. Lots of areas have been left vague, this draws out the complaints which can then be addressed (or the reasonable ones addressed at least).

In any case, while I'm sure there will be plenty of moaning, I don't see the issues being that big that the whole thing gets canned. The existing issues are that big that something has to be done and I'm sure everyone would agree with that. Leaving everything as is is just not an option.

I can only assume they have traffic count figures that show there is a fairly small amount of traffic genuinely heading south on the N11 from Bray, and that most of the traffic joining from the 3 junctions is local people avoiding going through the town. So this traffic will shift to the new service roads.

what do you mean "back through Shankill"? I'd imagine you'll be better off using the service roads than going through Shankill village if heading south, even from Little Bray.

There are some mutterings on the Greystones Open Forum about the closure of J10, though I don't really know why. It will make it slightly longer to get onto the N11 from Delgany but it'll massively reduce the amount of rat-running traffic in the village.

Certainly looks like they will have the land take available. I believe there will also be a link rd through the garden village sandpit connecting to the Kilcoole rd, although this will be part of the developments here, not to do with the n11 project.

Agree with you regarding the jn10 changes, can't see it having that much issue and will definitely stop the rat running.

You could be right about Shankill, just thought you'd be putting a lot of the residents from the south of the village back through the village to get to Loughlinstown. But as you say, the traffic counters probably showed they were in the minority.

Is there an actual route identified for such a road? I couldn't find anything online.

the start of the NAR is on the old development plan (from 2014). It's essentially where the new Cairn development is going at Redford, I think the first bit of it will be built by Cairn, to be extended at some point in the future towards Ballydonagh Road to the north of Kindlestown Woods. That Cairn development hasn't been submitted to planning yet - there's a placeholder for it here: https://www.cairnhomes.com/new-homes/coolagad/

it would provide an offline route from Newtown to Kilpedder and Greystones, currently that traffic uses the N11. Connecting the house in the middle (which they have to do anyway to close their private access onto the N11) would be a bonus, but there's probably another way of doing it without demolishing any houses. e.g.

yeah, west side of the road coming out near Jocks pub would also work.

I believe there are already plans for a connection from GV to the Newtown-Kilcoole Rd. partly to provide a route from the industrial estate in Kilcoole to the N11 without going through one or other of the village centres.

The campaigns are already up and running to save junctions/ direct access to the N11... There's an online petition to "Save Delgany Village Access to N11" by keeping Delgany/ Drummin exits.

maybe, at rush hour all bets are off. You want to drive to work, you're going to get stuck in traffic at numerous points along the route.

at the end of the day, my main concern was that they not widen the road. After that, I don't really care whether they close J10 or not.

Looking again at the plans for J10, the underpass at Barry's Bridge basically becomes a dead end, or extended driveway for the one house on that side of the road. It would be better if they left the connection to Old-Downs Road in place (& maybe make the road 2-way again)