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Would you be in favour of a border poll?

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    #1772
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    maryishere wrote: »
    We were talking about the IRA murder of 10 Protestants in Dunmanway Co. Cork in 1922.

    You bring up the question of peace in N.I. before the PIRA was formed : no there was not : there was sometimes sabotage, attacks etc - for example on one night alone in the IRA border campaign of 1956 - 1962, approx 150 IRA men attacked targets in N. Ireland. No wonder police on both sides of the border interned the thugs.


    I am from the Republic : you do not need to be a Republican provo sympathiser to be from the Republic.

    You're no more from Ireland than I'm from the moon.

    Complete bull sh1tartist


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    #1773
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,131 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Do you mean art? Dressed like a wee minstrel before he met his better her majesty the queen?

    Ok then......

    Was he famous for NEVER NEVER NEVER and then doing exactly what he said he'd never do? Anglo Irish Agreement, GFA, chuckling with IRA chiefs.

    Did you feel sold out?


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    #1774
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    maryishere wrote: »
    We were talking about the IRA murder of 10 Protestants in Dunmanway Co. Cork in 1922.

    The Dunmanway killings were an ugly episode, but they were not simply sectarian killings for the sake of it. Most of those killed had been unionists who had actively supported the British during the war of independence. Some local members of the 'Ra took it on themselves to settle scores, no orders were given from higher up. They shouldn't have happened but they did. By the by more Catholics than protestants were killed as informers during the war of independence than protestants, it was a nationalist/ unionist thing rather than sectarian.

    If I wanted to be disingenuous I could use your (rather sh1t) argument re. collusion that it was just a few bad apples and therefore it doesn't count


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    #1775
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Jayop wrote: »
    You're no more from Ireland than I'm from the moon.

    Complete bull sh1tartist

    Out of interest where would you say Mary was from then????


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    #1776
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Out of interest where would you say Mary was from then????

    Outer space


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    #1777
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Why, did you do much in the old days junkyard???

    Was I involved in the troubles? No, thankfully. The closest I got to the troubles was seeing a couple of brawls breaking out through a gap in the bedroom curtains as a wee'un.


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    #1778
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    munsterlegend wrote: »
    And you'll always be Irish Oiche Mhaith!

    Always be Irish? Unfortunately for you the GFA confirms we are free to consider ourselves Irish, British, both or anything inbetween. And it isn't based on some random cork persons thoughts from the south.

    (And British is out in front at the moment, then Irish and then closely Northern Irish.)

    Re the non English, No idea what this means. It could be Ulster Scots or Irish Gaelic I have no idea. What does it mean??


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    #1779
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    Outer space

    So possibly the republic then??


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    #1780
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    timthumbni wrote: »
    So possibly the republic then??

    Oh, you!


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    #1781
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    Oh, you!

    Don't flatter me buddy.... ;-)


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    #1782
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,100 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Always be Irish? Unfortunately for you the GFA confirms we are free to consider ourselves Irish, British, both or anything inbetween. And it isn't based on some random cork persons thoughts from the south.

    (And British is out in front at the moment, then Irish and then closely Northern Irish.)

    Re the non English, No idea what this means. It could be Ulster Scots or Irish Gaelic I have no idea. What does it mean??

    The GFA confirms you are free to choose an identity in relation to a UK constituent country. In terms of nations and culture you are Irish, in the same way someone from Scotland is Scottish (i.e Scottish nationality has no official political recognition). But if you are to regard Scottish people as Scottish in spite of that, then you are Irish in the same manner. Citizenship and nationality are two completely different matters. One is a political construct, in which you can choose your "identity" (you are British in citizenship, not in terms of geography), whereas your nationality is a non political tool belonging to the nation in which you are from i.e Ireland. Therefore if you regard yourself as British in terms of citizenship, you are Irish and British, the same way in which a Scottish person is Scottish and British. I'm aware these shocking events of reality may be hard for the simple minded unionist to comprehend. Ian Paisley even acknowledged himself as Irish and British, so it's funny how a "moderate" unionist can't bring himself to do the same, but there you go


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    #1783
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    The GFA confirms you are free to choose an identity in relation to a UK constituent country. In terms of nations and culture you are Irish, in the same way someone from Scotland is Scottish (i.e Scottish nationality has no official political recognition). But if you are to regard Scottish people as Scottish in spite of that, then you are Irish in the same manner. Citizenship and nationality are two completely different matters. One is a political construct, in which you can choose your "identity" (you are British in citizenship, not in terms of geography), whereas your nationality is a non political tool belonging to the nation in which you are from i.e Ireland. Therefore if you regard yourself as British in terms of citizenship, you are Irish and British, the same way in which a Scottish person is Scottish and British. I'm aware these shocking events of reality may be hard for the simple minded unionist to comprehend. Ian Paisley even acknowledged himself as Irish and British, so it's funny how a "moderate" unionist can't bring himself to do the same, but there you go

    Quite a speech. A very bitter and ignorant wee diatribe... Did you come up with that yourself??? Obviously not...

    Anyway, I don't give a flying feck about Paisley. Sorry to Dissapoint. It's funny you trying to force irishness on me when I don't want it. Stalking or worse they call that normally.


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    #1784
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,100 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Quite a speech. A very bitter and ignorant wee diatribe... Did you come up with that yourself??? Obviously not...

    Anyway, I don't give a flying feck about Paisley. Sorry to Dissapoint. It's funny you trying to force irishness on me when I don't want it. Stalking or worse they call that normally.

    Ah yes, another facetious post with no counter to the actual points raised i.e deflection . Is Scottishness "forced" on the Scots by the same token then? I suppose someone born and raised in Italy is actually Jamaican or Russian, just because he may not wish to be considered Italian? With all your sarcasm and "wit", your brain seems unable to comprehend the difference between the fact of nationality due to the accident of birth, and the choice of citizenship based on political constructs such as "Nothern Ireland". It's pretty simple really, I gave Paisley as an example of someone who understood this in spite of his staunch loyalism. If you are a unionist you're Irish and British in the same way someone is Welsh/Scottish and British


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    #1785
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,038 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Read Novosel.

    Thimk, or even think.

    Don't dance like a puppet.

    Edit: Report back.

    Not your ornery onager



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    #1786
    munsterlegend
    Registered Users Posts: 6,146 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    The GFA confirms you are free to choose an identity in relation to a UK constituent country. In terms of nations and culture you are Irish, in the same way someone from Scotland is Scottish (i.e Scottish nationality has no official political recognition). But if you are to regard Scottish people as Scottish in spite of that, then you are Irish in the same manner. Citizenship and nationality are two completely different matters. One is a political construct, in which you can choose your "identity" (you are British in citizenship, not in terms of geography), whereas your nationality is a non political tool belonging to the nation in which you are from i.e Ireland. Therefore if you regard yourself as British in terms of citizenship, you are Irish and British, the same way in which a Scottish person is Scottish and British. I'm aware these shocking events of reality may be hard for the simple minded unionist to comprehend. Ian Paisley even acknowledged himself as Irish and British, so it's funny how a "moderate" unionist can't bring himself to do the same, but there you go

    It's all very confusing for Thumbo but he will find himself eventually. even Arlene when asked considered herself part Irish as well.


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    #1787
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,131 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Quite a speech. A very bitter and ignorant wee diatribe... Did you come up with that yourself??? Obviously not...

    Anyway, I don't give a flying feck about Paisley. Sorry to Dissapoint. It's funny you trying to force irishness on me when I don't want it. Stalking or worse they call that normally.

    You probably won't answer this again, and nobody answered it when I asked it before and Unionism has yet to deal with it in a responsible way (if ever a couple of party's needed leaders)

    If you see yourself as British, how did it feel when the British government said it would abandon you because demographics had changed? That the place in which you live is in a 'strategic' limbo?
    Paisley seemed sanguine about it and seemed to find an inner peace about what Molyneaux called the worst thing to ever happen to unionists.(the IRA ceasefire that allowed the GFA deal to be reached)

    How does the ordinary unionist feel about it?


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    #1788
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    Jayop wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Just move Republicans across the border then if we go by that way of thinking. Every Unionist is a bigot or a racist etc. It gets boring.

    Absolutely no-one here has said that or suggested it or even hinted at it.

    You know what's boring, people arguing against points that weren't made. If my point was so bad then surely you could have argued against it without having to resort to a massive leap of logic.

    Maybe logic and reasoning aren't your strong suit?
    What is boring is people like you who live in some fantasy land about something which is as likely to happen as Aliens coming to earth.


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    #1789
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    Jayop wrote: »
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Not at all, less of the bigoted assumptions there Eddy. ;)

    You should be more careful of the company that you keep if you don't want to be tarred with the same brush. Given you and your gang pull up everyone from the nationalist side on every single perceived slip up, I'm surprised you didn't take issue with the Islamophobic comment from Pony on the last page. Look back though all their posts since they joined up, some awful stuff posted.

    Just wanted to warn you, wouldn't like to see you being accused in the wrong.
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hitchens+islamophobia&espv=2&biw=1093&bih=534&tbm=isch&imgil=lPkt6gg296ZHgM%253A%253BhTrKAlDPwC_e2M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Flikesuccess.com%25252F1397670&source=iu&pf=m&fir=lPkt6gg296ZHgM%253A%252ChTrKAlDPwC_e2M%252C_&usg=__Nr6M3LInBtWtECYy1zlK88CkVeE%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjkx9vghr7OAhXJD8AKHYkxDWIQyjcIJw&ei=4-SuV6TKOMmfgAaJ47SQBg

    Most sane people are "Islamophobic". Same way they are with Nazism.


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    #1790
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    maryishere wrote: »
    We were talking about the IRA murder of 10 Protestants in Dunmanway Co. Cork in 1922.

    The Dunmanway killings were an ugly episode, but they were not simply sectarian killings for the sake of it. Most of those killed had been unionists who had actively supported the British during the war of independence. Some local members of the 'Ra took it on themselves to settle scores, no orders were given from higher up. They shouldn't have happened but they did. By the by more Catholics than protestants were killed as informers during the war of independence than protestants, it was a nationalist/ unionist thing rather than sectarian.

    If I wanted to be disingenuous I could use your (rather sh1t) argument re. collusion that it was just a few bad apples and therefore it doesn't count
    Nationalists always have an excuse. Kingsmill was just some Protestants who managed to walk into firing bullets I suppose.


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    #1791
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    timthumbni wrote: »
    Trailing badly was Irish only (28 % I think) and then close behind them was Northern Irish only. (22%)

    Everyone living above Athlone is 'northern Irish'. 'Northern Irish' is a meaningless term. What's pathetic is people living in Ireland, for generations, describing themselves as 'British Only', it's like they have difficulty with reality never mind P1 geography, god love them.
    Why is it pathetic? Is it pathetic if the Falkand Islanders identify as British? No matter how much you try and force your identity on me it isn't going to work. You can not make me something I'm not. Learn to deal with it.


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    #1792
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,131 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Why is it pathetic? Is it pathetic if the Falkand Islanders identify as British? No matter how much you try and force your identity on me it isn't going to work. You can not make me something I'm not. Learn to deal with it.

    Nobody is going to force you to do anything. If you want to be British in a UI, fire ahead.
    Plenty of British ex pats in the world who lead perfectly ordinary lives.

    The problem unionism has is the land you stand on has tacitly been seceded to the people of the 'island of Ireland' to decide it's future. Britain has no strategic interest in it anymore.
    They have a strategic interest in The Malvinas, hence the warships.


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    #1793
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Why is it pathetic? Is it pathetic if the Falkand Islanders identify as British? No matter how much you try and force your identity on me it isn't going to work. You can not make me something I'm not. Learn to deal with it.

    Why do you care what other people think of you? Most people in the world are going to have a certain opinion of your nationality. You may disagree or consider yourself the real last of the Mohicans. Why is this an issue?


    This thread continues to be one group of largely brainwashed arguing "incontrovertible" viewpoints with another, with zero empathetic abilities.


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    #1794
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Why is it pathetic? Is it pathetic if the Falkand Islanders identify as British? No matter how much you try and force your identity on me it isn't going to work. You can not make me something I'm not. Learn to deal with it.

    Nobody is going to force you to do anything. If you want to be British in a UI, fire ahead.
    Plenty of British ex pats in the world who lead perfectly ordinary lives.

    The problem unionism has is the land you stand on has tacitly been seceded to the people of the 'island of Ireland' to decide it's future. Britain has no strategic interest in it anymore.
    They have a strategic interest in The Malvinas, hence the warships.
    No. The GFA states it is up to the people of NI to decide. So no matter how the ROI would vote in a referendum, the people of NI decide ultimately.

    So the people of "Ireland" don't have the ultimate say. The people of NI vote and only if the majority voted for a UI, would it go to a referendum in the South. Big difference. But then it is irrelevant talking about it as it has as much chance of happening as Liverpool winning the league.


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    #1795
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Is it pathetic if the Falkand Islanders identify as British?

    No but I would consider it pathetic if they refused to identify themselves as Falkland Islanders despite having lived there for several generations.
    No matter how much you try and force your identity on me it isn't going to work.

    Trust me, I'd much rather you didn't identify as an Irish nationalist.
    You can not make me something I'm not.

    And neither can you. If you ran around the place neighing and wearing fake hooves you still wouldn't be a little pony.


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    #1796
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Why is it pathetic? Is it pathetic if the Falkand Islanders identify as British? No matter how much you try and force your identity on me it isn't going to work. You can not make me something I'm not. Learn to deal with it.

    Why do you care what other people think of you? Most people in the world are going to have a certain opinion of your nationality. You may disagree or consider yourself the real last of the Mohicans. Why is this an issue?


    This thread continues to be one group of largely brainwashed arguing "incontrovertible" viewpoints with another, with zero empathetic abilities.
    It makes over a million people sound like they are brainwashed and have no self worth. It is demonizing of the worst kind built on myths Republicans have been fed on.


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    #1797
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,131 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    No. The GFA states it is up to the people of NI to decide. So no matter how the ROI would vote in a referendum, the people of NI decide ultimately.

    So the people of "Ireland" don't have the ultimate say. The people of NI vote and only if the majority voted for a UI, would it go to a referendum in the South. Big difference. But then it is irrelevant talking about it as it has as much chance of happening as Liverpool winning the league.

    You are not dealing with the issues implicit in the GFA. Demographics change and attitudes change., You have insecure tenure.
    I know you and others here will probably meet that with the usual NEVER NEVER bluster, but it doesn't change the underlying insecurity and implications.


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    #1798
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Is it pathetic if the Falkand Islanders identify as British?

    No but I would consider it pathetic if they refused to identify themselves as Falkland Islanders despite having lived there for several generations.
    No matter how much you try and force your identity on me it isn't going to work.

    Trust me, I'd much rather you didn't identify as an Irish nationalist.
    You can not make me something I'm not.

    And neither can you. If you ran around the place neighing and wearing fake hooves you still wouldn't be a little pony.
    Would it be silly if Canadians refused to identify as American? They are on the same American continent after all. It is a nonsense argument.


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    #1799
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,131 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »



    And neither can you. If you ran around the place neighing and wearing fake hooves you still wouldn't be a little pony.

    I will cut the grass with a wee smile on my face after that! :)


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    #1800
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    No. The GFA states it is up to the people of NI to decide. So no matter how the ROI would vote in a referendum, the people of NI decide ultimately.

    So the people of "Ireland" don't have the ultimate say. The people of NI vote and only if the majority voted for a UI, would it go to a referendum in the South. Big difference. But then it is irrelevant talking about it as it has as much chance of happening as Liverpool winning the league.

    You are not dealing with the issues implicit in the GFA. Demographics change and attitudes change., You have insecure tenure.
    I know you and others here will probably meet that with the usual NEVER NEVER bluster, but it doesn't change the underlying insecurity and implications.
    It seems it is you who is insecure about all this. All recent polls in NI have not pointed towards any attitude change at all. It beggars belief why some argue this case still.


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    #1801
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,131 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    It seems it is you who is insecure about all this. All recent polls in NI have not pointed towards any attitude change at all. It beggars belief why some argue this case still.

    More bluster.
    Polls change, outside events change things. NI unionists panicked when it looked like Scotland was about to leave and we know why they did. That is still all up in the air.
    Brexit, and it's implications could alter your position dramatically and you know it.


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