Console. Charity, Irish-style

There is another thread here in which over 66% of those polled says people accused of wrongdoing (in fact that involved crime) deserved anonymity, 10% or so said they don't.

I think this is a perfect example of why those who are accused of doing wrong should be exposed and they can't hide behind a "well I wasn't convicted of anything".

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057607286/4

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

There is another thread here in which over 66% of those polled says people accused of wrongdoing (in fact that involved crime) deserved anonymity, 10% or so said they don't.

I think this is a perfect example of why those who are accused of doing wrong should be exposed and they can't hide behind a "well I wasn't convicted of anything".

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057607286/4

well as the gardai seemingly cant be bothered to do anything i doubt we will ever see them accused of anything. But i disagree with you anyway. It shouldnt take a tv programme to bring this to the publics attention. As it is now any prosecution will find it difficult to proceed because they can claim that any trial has been prejudiced.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well as the gardai seemingly cant be bothered to do anything i doubt we will ever see them accused of anything. But i disagree with you anyway. It shouldnt take a tv programme to bring this to the publics attention. As it is now any prosecution will find it difficult to proceed because they can claim that any trial has been prejudiced.

But we could not have a situation where those accused of doing wrong can have their identities published and those whose wrong is so significant that it has led to an investigation by the Gardaí be granted anonymity. It would mean that those accused of more serious wrong would have greater protection.

I simply say that they should all be liable to be named and we should be very careful about limiting the freedom of the press.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

But we could not have a situation where those accused of doing wrong can have their identities published and those whose wrong is so significant that it has led to an investigation by the Gardaí be granted anonymity. It would mean that those accused of more serious wrong would have greater protection.

I simply say that they should all be liable to be named and we should be very careful about limiting the freedom of the press.

what he have here is trial by media. they have already been found guilty by the press.

Winterlong

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It shouldnt take a tv programme to bring this to the publics attention.

This is the nub of the point.
Faith in the charity sector is dying away. Regulator has no power and not enough resources. The law is too weak and there seems to be no will to remedy this.

All eyes on Shane Ross. Now that he is at the big table hopefully he can push Enda in to action.

westcoast66

OK, Just throwing this out there - is there any possibility that these guys are innocent?

Could the cash withdrawals have been used to give to suicidal people or to pay people for counseling work? Could the groceries have been used for food for helpline workers overnighting?

Can't think of a plausible need for a flash car though...

sbsquarepants

westcoast66 wrote: »

OK, Just throwing this out there - is there any possibility that these guys are innocent?

Could the cash withdrawals have been used to give to suicidal people or to pay people for counseling work? Could the groceries have been used for food for helpline workers overnighting?

Can't think of a plausible need for a flash car though...

Is there anything to be said for another mass?

In a word - NO

maudgonner

No harm in someone playing devil's advocate. But even if the expenses were all legitimate, they still didn't pay PAYE/PRSI on their income, so they evaded tax.

That's an offence and I hope the Revenue Commissioners pursue them to the full extent of the law. I reckon that's the best chance we have of seeing them brought to some kind of justice.

selastich2

westcoast66 wrote: »

OK, Just throwing this out there - is there any possibility that these guys are innocent?

Could the cash withdrawals have been used to give to suicidal people or to pay people for counseling work? Could the groceries have been used for food for helpline workers overnighting?

Can't think of a plausible need for a flash car though...

and they needed 6 sets of accounts because...they over ordered paper and had to room to store the surplus

Mary63

Why would you give cash to suicidal people and then charge them for counselling.The counselling provided by Console wasnt free even though the HSE threw millions their way.If you were a public patient and there was counselling available directly through the HSE you wouldnt be asked to donate,some people donated as much as fifty euros per counselling session.I wonder did they get receipts.The therapists also offered their services at a reduced cost and had to chase Console looking for their money,they had mortgages,rent, grocery,mobile phone,holidays,clothes,dentistry bills to pay and they couldnt even get their services paid for.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/mcdonald-asks-why-console-concerns-took-so-long-to-come-to-light-1.2705177

selastich2

Console allegations first came to light seven years ago: Mary Lou McDonald


http:// www .thejournal.ie/console-charity-allegations-2853594-Jun2016/

Seven years and who did what?

selastich2

It has been reported the charities regulator does not have the legal power to carry out statutory investigations of charities, as a section of the legislation has yet to be enacted.






so wtf are they there for? Quango of the highest order

Mary63

The Charity Regulator probably doesnt have the staff either but I think I read somewhere that there are thirty staff employed in the hSE to examine accounts submitted by Charities in receipt of public funds.

Console seemed to have been busy submitting multiple accounts so maybe the HSE staff didnt realise that Official A was approving one set of accounts while official B,C,D,E and F were approving another set of accounts and sensitive stuff was being moved from account to account so no one copped the Directors expenses.

This means though that no one had any idea exactly how much money Console actually had or was spending and if money was given in cash would this show up anywhere at all.

Surely even the HSE staff would query enormous mobile phone bills and foreign travel to Australia at Christmas time or are we to believe this sort of spending would be considered normal in the Public Sector.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0630/799161-console-charity/

donegaLroad

either road that is the family name well and truly down the Swannee.

Mary63

Paul Kelly decided at the weekend that he hadnt resigned at all and nor had he submitted a letter of resignation,he turned up at the offices over the weekend as bold as brass,no one had thought of changing the locks.The answer given as to why this hadnt been done was the situation was GUBU,where did we hear GUBU before.

gctest50

donegaLroad wrote: »

either road that is the family name well and truly down the Swannee.

How was it not that way before :

Ballyfermot-born Kelly made headlines for another reason in 1983 when he was given the Probation Act for pretending to be a doctor at the Royal City of Dublin Hospital in Baggot Street for three weeks.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/console-chief-who-spent-128k-using-nuns-credit-cards-once-pretended-to-be-a-doctor-34844856.html

Mr Kelly described himself as Father or Brother Paul Kelly of the Order of San Damiano. He was also listed as Rev Paul Kelly, Servants of the Poor.
He claimed he was setting up a new religious congregation, known as the Order of San Damiano.
When questioned about this order he insisted he was entitled to refer to himself as Brother or Reverend at different times and that he was ordained in 1988.

ohnonotgmail

Mary63 wrote: »

Who is the ex employee,I wonder is it Paul Kellys sister,she resigned last week along with Paul Kellys wife.

Paul Kelly decided at the weekend that he hadnt resigned at all and nor had he submitted a letter of resignation,he turned up at the offices over the weekend as bold as brass,no one had thought of changing the locks.The answer given as to why this hadnt been done was the situation was GUBU,where did we hear GUBU before.

unfortunately a scandal about how a charity has spent its money is not unprecedented.

brooke 2

Sapphire wrote: »

What I haven't seen in any news reports, is what the authorities plan to do with this shower.

If I stole from my workplace, they would have every right to have me dragged out of the place by Gardai and I'd deserve it. So why have the Gardai not gone in to investigate? Why have no arrests been made? Why have charities monitored by the HSE and the Charities Ombudsman if they have no apparent powers to actually do anything when they uncover wrong doing. Why isn't Revenue and Criminal Assets Bureau having a good root thorough this family's finances?

This is criminal. Fraud. Embezzlement. Tax evasion. So why is this man still sitting on the board and not in an interview room in a Garda Station? Neck like a jockey's bollocks is an understatement.

Why, when this report is months old, have none of the above agencies done something about it?

Apparently, there are about half a dozen of these agencies after them now!!
Where have they been for the past few years, especially since 2009, when suspicions had been raised about Console?

donegaLroad

gctest50 wrote: »

How was it not that way before :

If you are referring to the time when yer man was pretending to be a doctor, it didn't make the headlines the way this latest scandal is in the news now....

also, there was no social media or popular discussion forums like this one, to keep the whole thing alive in people's heads.

maudgonner

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

unfortunately a scandal about how a charity has spent its money is not unprecedented.

It's not. And we also had a Taoiseach who took it upon himself to reallocate funds that had been donated to pay for Brian Lenihan's liver transplant.

He reallocated £250k...to himself.

That's the first thing I was reminded of when I heard that funds donated to Console might never have even made it into their accounts. Haughey would be proud. :mad:

Joe prim

donegaLroad wrote: »

either road that is the family name well and truly down the Swannee.

Although, in fairness, Ned had already done a fair bit of damage with his bushranging activities beyond over there in 'Stralia.

Glenbhoy

Mary63 wrote: »

Who is David Hall,does anyone know why he was asked to investigate.I still cant understand why someone from the Criminal Assets Bureau wasnt sent it.As of yesterday the Kellys still had the cars bought with Console money in their possession,why werent they seized immediately.

I don't know much about David Hall, but he came to my attention a few years ago when he created an umbrella group for mortgage holders under threat of eviction or some such topic. It seems that he's been involved with a few charities over the years, I know nothing about him, but I know that the crowd over the propertypin website, rightly or wrongly, have long questioned his motivation.
I believe he also stood for election on some sort of mortgage arrears ticket recently too.

Re the possibility of prosecution, it remains to be seen if anything done is actually an offence. It will be in the realms of company law etc, as a director of the charity, he could well be entitled to determine how the money raised is spent. Is there something about a charity having to give 5% of money raised to good causes, the rest can justifiably be used for admin purposes? We also have no knowledge of the guy's personal tax situation, it could be that he is in good standing with the revenue. As for assets such as the cars, it's probable the the directors of the charity have okayed the use of these vehicles to officers of the company etc.
It's not right, but the reality is that people have to take more care when giving to causes. All charities should have to publish a set of audited accounts (with proper details of expenditure, not some abridged version which gives out feck all information).

kal7

it has been reported that they paid a auditor 3k per month, who said it was difficult to get the charity expenses details.

Is it just me, or should the auditor not sign off on the accounts until he/she is happy with these.

the auditor should be in trouble with their governing body, as should those in banking scandals, unless they can prove they have been duped.

ohnonotgmail

kal7 wrote: »

it has been reported that they paid a auditor 3k per month, who said it was difficult to get the charity expenses details.

Is it just me, or should the auditor not sign off on the accounts until he/she is happy with these.

the auditor should be in trouble with their governing body, as should those in banking scandals, unless they can prove they have been duped.

i dont know how an auditor could possibly be happy with large cash advances on credit cards that weren't vouched.

bear1

sbsquarepants wrote: »

This is very interesting to know - I take this applies only to charitable donations, ie you can't just take your esb bill back?

This rule applies to any sepa direct debit.
The bank is obligated to refund any funds within 8 weeks without any questions asked.
Now you can go as far as 13 months but then in this case the bene bank has 10 business days to provide proof that the collections are valid.
If after the 10 days they cant provide proof or simply dont respond then the funds are automatically refunded via the equens system.
Source: I approve these requests in a certain bank.

goose2005

donegaLroad wrote: »

yes and they go on with this bolloxology of 'oh, the remuneration is high so as to attract the right talent'.

And surprisingly, after a worldwide search for "the right talent" it turns out that the most suitable candidate is d'nephew or one of your old school chums

ClovenHoof

Red Cross Built Exactly 6 Homes For Haiti With Nearly Half A Billion Dollars In Donations

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/04/red-cross-haiti-report_n_7511080.html

AlekSmart

donegaLroad wrote: »

If you are referring to the time when yer man was pretending to be a doctor, it didn't make the headlines the way this latest scandal is in the news now....

also, there was no social media or popular discussion forums like this one, to keep the whole thing alive in people's heads.

However,it looks like RTE,in the days when it COULD make worthwhile TV,did quite a job on this lad....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/we-exposed-kelly-26-years-ago-i-guess-some-people-never-change-34848107.html

In 1989, Mr Kelly founded Christian Development Services, a group which helped provide low-cost counselling sessions to those unable to afford private care.

The organisation folded after serious financial irregularities lead to Mr Kelly being forced from the position of CEO by staff outraged at his behaviour.

It would soon emerge that under his stewardship the charity had failed to pay any tax or PRSI and owed the Revenue some IR£100,000 despite collecting, on average, IR£3,000 weekly from its various counselling centres.

Revisiting the crimescene,indeed !!

suicide_circus

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Red Cross Built Exactly 6 Homes For Haiti With Nearly Half A Billion Dollars In Donations

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/04/red-cross-haiti-report_n_7511080.html

W T actual F ?!

Shint0

suicide_circus wrote: »

W T actual F ?!

Not surprising really. Which brings to mind to the whole saga with Noel Wardick and the Irish Red Cross.

I used work for a satellite of a main organisation body. I always put forward the argument in meetings with relevant stakeholders that the satellites ought be merged with the main organisation body which would more effectively reach the targeted population. I would always receive an internal backlash afterwards that it was far better to continue to operate separately under the radar.

Many employees within charitable bodies and publicly funded organisations are well aware of practices which conflict with the objectives of the relevant organisation but they are not going to blow the whistle as a means of self-preservation.

If a lot of publicly funded companies were more effectively audited and run more efficiently there would be a need for fewer personnel. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Some people are able to reconcile that issue while others have more difficulty with it.