Console. Charity, Irish-style

BunkMoreland

Simple rule to live by, never donate to charity, of any kind.

brooke 2

osarusan wrote: »

Been reading through this all day on here and elsewhere and it's sickening, f**king sickening.

It's far from the first time either - has there not been any attempt to increase scrutiny on how these charities operate in recent years?

The charity regulator has absolutely no teeth. Not legally allowed to scrutinise the charities, I believe. One would wonder why it exists at all. :mad:

Lyaiera

I worked (CE Scheme) for a non-profit arts organisation. They were extremely on top of the money situation. The two directors were paid well, but they pretty much did everything of importance, one ran the business of the organisation and the other handled the artistic stuff. I often did petty cash and integrated it into the bigger spreadsheets, and they were very frugal. They cut out as much expenditure as they could by borrowing and trading favours from other arts organisations, cultural groups, and private business that could help (not with money but with goods, usually.)

There's some seriously dodgy stuff going on with charities and non-profits. But equally there's some very good things coming out of the honest ones, that are genuinely trying to help people, or provide for communities.

dr.bollocko

BunkMoreland wrote: »

Simple rule to live by, never donate to charity, of any kind.

Don't forget flossing. Is also an important rule to live by. Don't eat yellow snow.


But in all seriousness. Aside from the above post I quoted which is less advice and more a damning indictment of the human condition... If one was to donate to an Irish charity, do any of them have a squeaky clean rep?

brooke 2

eviltwin wrote: »

Well said Velo. I've worked in the charity sector for a good while now and I'm sick of organisations putting on the poor mouth and relying on interns, jobsbridge and volunteer workers to provide front line services while senior management pay themselves massive salaries and have generous expense accounts. The CEOs are just the tip of the iceberg.

Once met someone who volunteered to work for one of those corporate charities. He was made to feel like an idiot by those who were being very generously paid by same charities. Browned him off.

brooke 2

The Black Oil wrote: »

Agree with much of what you've said.

The Console case is an utter mess in terms of governance and on the financial side. There is a need for a wider conversation and review of suicide related charities which are publicly funded. They often seem to be set up by people with direct experience of the issue. There's different types - awareness orientated and those with an intervention or direct support services. People are not just suicidal 9-5 and maybe some of those sort of charities could be reduced in number, different things work for different people. I don't think Pieta House or the Samaritans receive HSE funding. The latter is a very long standing organisation - possibly the only 24 hour service, with wide reach and from what I understand, Pieta House has a very high reputation, brand awareness and is spread well around the country. Jigsaw - don't know their funding situation, but they engage directly with young people around mental health, iirc. Aware, that's depression specific and has services like a helpline, again a direct role. Don't know about SOS or Shine.

But, leaving the particulars of Console to one side, if fairness to the HSE, it's caught in a little bit of a bind here. Some local suicide groups are often set up in response to a tragedy. The HSE may then be expected to fund this for 12-24 months. What then if it said no, it can't continue to fund it? If it said the objectives of the charity were not being met, evidenced based - because of the high profile suicide has in this country, can you imagine the outcry if it threatened to pull funding from even one suicide charity?

I believe there are 200+ charities dealing with suicide alone. That is way
too many.

brooke 2

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Big Charity is a magnet for psychopaths. Jimmy Savile, Jim Jones, etc.

Create a profile for youself as a living saint, then use the fake image as a cover, and the charity as the enabler. All you have to do then is fire the people who might squeal on you, and bring in your own crew, then sail the gravy boat together.

Never give money to corporte charities. Only to small local ones or cash to the homeless person on the street.

Or be an ex-pop star and set up your own 'foundation', as charity has now become a dirty word.

Shint0

A lot of charities operate on a numbers game. The figures for the numbers of contacts requiring interventions are generously massaged to bump up the statistics to meet the requirements for public funding. This would also included some EU and state funded organisations and programmes overseen by ministerial departments. The door needs to be blown wide open on some of these agencies to expose how they operate behind the scenes many of which evade proper auditing.

Glenbhoy

Ronald Wilson Reagan wrote: »

This is nothing new for the Irish state when it comes to social services. Previously hands were washed of such matters which where handed over to the church with no oversight, resulting in gross abuses. The same thing is being done today, just its the private sector rather than the church. Some charities seem to be run like private fiefdoms for the benefit of their founders.

Surely it would be more cost effective for the HSE to provide these services directly rather than funding the dubious or downright spurious motives of odious middle men.

This post sums up the problem imo. The state will do anything to avoid the responsibility of providing essential services. This may be simply an attempt to avoid liability (such as with schools, where, although they pay the staff and all running costs and control the curriculum etc), the state refuses any responsibility for goings on within a school. It's also a response to the thatcher era privatise/outsource everything, lest you be left having to employ someone and maybe even pay them a generous pension (which might mean, less in the pot to divvy amongst those of us already in the system).
It's the ideal situation for the a minister, asked what is being done, they can point to increasing grants to areas of need, no accountability or responsibility after that. Perfect, the optics are good.
Whilst it seems there will always be charities, should a properly functioning state require them?

Glenbhoy

Winterlong wrote: »

Between this and the Rehab scandal last year I would bet that most irish charities are seeing a drop off in donations. And it will only get worse.

Don't forget the 'friends of ....... (insert hospital of choice)' charities which were raising money in order to top up salaries of senior staff.

Glenbhoy

maudgonner wrote: »

Fair play to the Prime Time Investigates team for exposing this. RTE may waste a lot of money, but every so often they do something like this that puts the license fee to good use.

It seems that the 'investigation' was taking delivery of a report carried out by/for the hse, reading it, understanding it and making a programme.
For what it's worth, the information out there at present is a bit sketchy, it'll be interesting to see if anything actually comes of this, but I'm not sure that there's anything that would be of any use in a criminal prosecution.

One More Toy

Don't donate money to charity

Rather donate your time

darkpagandeath

Said it before I will say it again Scams....

wokingvoter

andekwarhola wrote: »

Thank god know embezzlement is only limited to Ireland. Was getting worried there.

I'd imagine we pale in comparison to what happens in the US

wokingvoter

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Don't forget flossing. Is also an important rule to live by. Don't eat yellow snow.


But in all seriousness. Aside from the above post I quoted which is less advice and more a damning indictment of the human condition... If one was to donate to an Irish charity, do any of them have a squeaky clean rep?

I'd be fairly happy to give to our local social services or St Vincent de Paul because I know exactly who is in charge of the money

Winterlong

Can somoene explain to me how you can have a mobile phone expenditure of 30k over three years?

Is she calling the international space station during peak hours?

Mary63

Its not clear whether Paul Kellys son has resigned from the Conjob office in the uk.Seemingly Conjob have very nice offices in Westminister and Kelly Junior is earning 600 sterling a week,tax free I presume.
The HSE prepared this report six months ago,who was it presented to snd was any action taken on foot of it.The independent reviewer David Hall stated yesterday that action from yesterday was being taken regarding opening of post.
Were the Kellys still opening post for the last six months while the HSE had completed their damning review.Were any of the bank accounts or credit cards frozen,there was a lot of cash sithdrawn using the twenty credit cards in use this is a very expensive way to access cash apart from anything else.
I give regularly to Simon and the Focus Point,am I mad.

MilesMorales1

Winterlong wrote: »

Can somoene explain to me how you can have a mobile phone expenditure of 30k over three years?

Is she calling the international space station during peak hours?

That might include mobile internet charges.

whiskeyman

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

That might include mobile internet charges.

And probably entering the Late Late competitions multiple times every week...

Mary63

If you have added all your family and friends to your account and all use huge data it would add up very quickly.
We dont actually know yet though how that bill mounted up but the mobile phone company can supply records.
The independent revieweres are thinking of going to the high court to protect Consoles assets there arent any assets though,just one property in Navan which has a mortgage of half a million euros.
The HSE need to make a statement on its role in this immediately and stop hiding behind due process,we as taxpayers are entitled to know why our money was given to an organisation the HSE had serious concerns about.

bernard0368

I have donated roughly €5000.00 to this crowd since my son died two years ago.
To say I am pissed is an understatement.

I would have thought that after the CRC debacle the state would have looked closer at the charitable organizations they rely on. Especially since these bodies provide the services that our government consistently fail to provide, especially in the field of mental health.
Its about time people are held accountable for their actions in this country.

gctest50

You can recover direct debit payment - f them, you'd wonder how much effort they were actually putting in since it seemed so lucrative


this sort of thing :

The debtor can request refund or amendment of any direct debit transaction for up to 8 weeks following the transaction date.

This refund must be made without question.

The creditor will no doubt engage with the debtor to identify the reason for the refund and discuss the transaction, but they are obliged to refund the monies.

http://www.sepadirectdebits.ie/direct-debit-software/about-sepa/for-the-creditor

Sapphire

What I haven't seen in any news reports, is what the authorities plan to do with this shower.

If I stole from my workplace, they would have every right to have me dragged out of the place by Gardai and I'd deserve it. So why have the Gardai not gone in to investigate? Why have no arrests been made? Why have charities monitored by the HSE and the Charities Ombudsman if they have no apparent powers to actually do anything when they uncover wrong doing. Why isn't Revenue and Criminal Assets Bureau having a good root thorough this family's finances?

This is criminal. Fraud. Embezzlement. Tax evasion. So why is this man still sitting on the board and not in an interview room in a Garda Station? Neck like a jockey's bollocks is an understatement.

Why, when this report is months old, have none of the above agencies done something about it?

sbsquarepants

gctest50 wrote: »

You can recover direct debit payment


this sort of thing :

This is very interesting to know - I take this applies only to charitable donations, ie you can't just take your esb bill back?

sbsquarepants

Sapphire wrote: »

.

Why, when this report is months old, have none of the above agencies done something about it?

It's called cronyism

gctest50

any dd afaik

PARlance

David Hall has been appointed interim CEO of Console. Salary €0. At least it's in better hands now.

mickstupp

maryishere wrote: »

About 3000 charities too many, in this small little country, about the size of an average Continental / American city. I know someone who "works" for one of them and there is no end to the designer clothes, foreign holidays etc there either.

Hope you've reported them, yeah?

Mary63

Condolences on your loss Bernard,I have been there and it does get easier so hang in there.

The Charities Regulator doesnt have the powers or the resources to go into Charities and examine what is going on.I dont know exactly what his or her role is without Statutory Powers to investigate charities,what is the point of the existence of a Charity regulator without teeth,can anyone explain this.

I believe the Charity Regulator in the UK has more power so it will be interesting to see what happens to Console in the UK.

I doubt gctest50 if there is much money in the accounts to refund anyone.The therapists who provided services at a reduced rate on contract to Console had great difficulty getting paid and the the Landlord in some of the premises rented by Console couldnt get their rent due either.I prsume all these people would have to be paid in full before any money donated could be refunded.

Who is David Hall,does anyone know why he was asked to investigate.I still cant understand why someone from the Criminal Assets Bureau wasnt sent it.As of yesterday the Kellys still had the cars bought with Console money in their possession,why werent they seized immediately.

wokingvoter

The Kelly's have probably stashed away plenty of money to keep them going while they go to ground, heads down for a while before they relocate to some far flung spot where they'll dupe another community into handing over their spare cash.
I garantee no charges will ever be levied against them here.