Season 6 Episode 9 "Battle of the Bastards" - Speculation Thread

Mr Freeze

alchemist33 wrote: »

Havent read all the pages but is this episode really called "Battle of the bastards?" Because if it is, some writer needs to be fired.

Apparently it is.

Missed opportunity big time, Bastardbowl would be class.

duffman13

EagererBeaver wrote: »

You said how I could call him a poor actor is mystifying. I've watched him be boring and wooden as Jon Snow for five years. That's how.

I've enjoyed his performances right up to this season, hes portrayed everything I expected Jon to be like. Since his resurrection however I'm not loving his scenes which is likely to with the writing as much as his acting.

It's obviously subjective but I think he's been a very good actor on the show

Brief_Lives

homerun_homer wrote: »

I would wonder if Davos will face off with Melisandre if that's him standing over the grave of Shireen.

J. Marston

alchemist33 wrote: »

Havent read all the pages but is this episode really called "Battle of the bastards?" Because if it is, some writer needs to be fired.

Game of Thrones have never been subtle with their titles ("The Mountain and The Viper? Wonder what'll happen in that episode.")

Do you have a suggestion for a better title? I was thinking "The North Remembers" but that's already been used.

EagererBeaver

J. Marston wrote: »

Game of Thrones have never been subtle with their titles ("The Mountain and The Viper? Wonder what'll happen in that episode.")

Do you have a suggestion for a better title? I was thinking "The North Remembers" but that's already been used.

Bastardbowl! They're actually doing it, everyone wants it. Why not just play to the gallery a bit?

Dave_The_Sheep

From the preview, I'd guess it'll go something along the lines of Jon's army getting a bit of a hiding for the first while. Archers cutting them down, discipline of a professional Bolton army making mincemeat of the Wildlings (who lets face it would be sh*te in a pitched open field battle). Someone comes to aid them, quite possibly the Karstarks and/or the Tullys/Knights of the Vale. I also wouldn't be surprised at a few defections from those in the North along the way.

Looks like Rickon's a gonner, a few fiery wooden crosses that Ramsay likes to use there in front of his army. Fairly decent tactic to try and piss off the enemy commander in to making mistakes.

The finale could also be a bit of a Lannister showdown, with Cersei wanting to destory King's Landing and Jamie either killing her to stop it, or stopping her and then killing both of them so they can be together forever (blah blah). My money would be on the latter. He can't go anywhere else - Jon Snow might not have him. Only possible would be Danaerys, and Tyrion's already over there (though his nostalgic meanderings about wine make me fear he's for the chop too sadly).

All in all, can't wait for the next episode. I do like the ones where they focus the story instead of jumping all over the place.

EagererBeaver

I don't think Jaime and Cersei's arcs are done yet. Don't know why, but have a hunch they'll be around for a while yet.

Tenger

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Apparently it is.

Missed opportunity big time, Bastardbowl would be class.

Far too American for my taste.

alchemist33

J. Marston wrote: »

Game of Thrones have never been subtle with their titles ("The Mountain and The Viper? Wonder what'll happen in that episode.")

Do you have a suggestion for a better title? I was thinking "The North Remembers" but that's already been used.

I'd have to watch it first, but put this title up against "The rains of castamere", which meant something, and Battle of the Bastards looks more like a plot summary than a title.

J. Marston

This episode will be a massacre. My death predictions...

Ramsay
Rickon
Davos
Tormund
Wun Wun
Pod

quad_red

alchemist33 wrote: »

I'd have to watch it first, but put this title up against "The rains of castamere", which meant something, and Battle of the Bastards looks more like a plot summary than a title.

Well it's probably what the people of Westeros would call the battle in years to come.

J. Marston

The director of this episode is

Miguel Sapochnik, he did the Hardhome episode last season. Bodes well for an episode that is focused on a huge battle

Jofspring

I hope the episode doesn't get too lost in just the battle though, as in jump straight into it. Hardhome was excellent because it was a very good episode leading up to the battle and to be honest I hadn't even seen it coming. I think thats what made it so great.

Degag

Yep, can see Wun Wun bitting the dust and at least one of Tormund and Davos. My money is on Tormund.

rawn

Degag wrote: »

Yep, can see Wun Wun bitting the dust and at least one of Tormund and Davos. My money is on Tormund.

Don't you say that!

I have a feeling that the house that delivered Rickon (the Umbers??) will pull a Trojan horse. They're mixed in with the Bolton forces, and will wait for the opportune moment to do an about-face and attack the Bolton men next to them. The North remembers etc

Degag

rawn wrote: »

Don't you say that!

I have a feeling that the house that delivered Rickon (the Umbers??) will pull a Trojan horse. They're mixed in with the Bolton forces, and will wait for the opportune moment to do an about-face and attack the Bolton men next to them. The North remembers etc

Someone big is going to die and i think Tormund has served his purpose.

aligator_am

Can deffo see Rickon either getting killed in this one or else his corpse being marched out as a team mascot by Ramsey.

Am hoping Wun Wun doesn't get minced, nor Tormund neither, actually wouldn't be surprised if Jon gets banjaxed again and needs to be rezzed (even though he told ol' smokey crotch not to do so if he dies in the trailer).

Am expecting the Knights of the Vale to swoop in but wouldn't be surprised to see the Lannister army to appear up north in either this episode or the finale, the way things seem to be going a lot of characters are either heading for Winterfell or just heading north in general.

Assuming that the Bolton / houses of the north army gets defeated, it'll be interesting to see what sort of justice is doled out to them, and what will be the price for victory? I reckon Sansa will have to marry that little freakshow who's lord of the vale

J. Marston

Yeah, Rickon is definitely gone.

The actor who plays him must be a little annoyed! Gets called back after 3 seasons off-screen and his role is to be on screen for 20 seconds with no lines and then probably be a flayed, flaming corpse.

intheclouds

aligator_am wrote: »

Am expecting the Knights of the Vale to swoop in but wouldn't be surprised to see the Lannister army to appear up north in either this episode or the finale, the way things seem to be going a lot of characters are either heading for Winterfell or just heading north in general.

Im trying to imagine how the Lannister army would be there. They were in bed with the Boltons for the Red Wedding. The Boltons betrayed them by marrying Sansa (Lannister) Stark to Ramsay Bolton. Could Jaime argue that he is supporting his family by joining forces to Sansa (Lannister) Stark? The point of her marriage to Tyrion was to get a Lannister into Winterfell. But they think she was involved in Joffreys death so would Jaime support her?

pinkypinky

Cersei thinks Sansa was involved with Joffrey's death but I'm not sure that Jaime does.

CMOTDibbler

intheclouds wrote: »

Im trying to imagine how the Lannister army would be there. They were in bed with the Boltons for the Red Wedding. The Boltons betrayed them by marrying Sansa (Lannister) Stark to Ramsay Bolton. Could Jaime argue that he is supporting his family by joining forces to Sansa (Lannister) Stark? The point of her marriage to Tyrion was to get a Lannister into Winterfell. But they think she was involved in Joffreys death so would Jaime support her?

Didn't Tommen annul the Tyrion-Sansa marriage? Which left Sansa free to marry Ramsay (show version). In the books it's a bit different since it's Arya (Who are ya).

But is it really a betrayal to marry her to Ramsay? And at this stage Jaime knows that Sansa has got away from Ramsay.

intheclouds

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Didn't Tommen annul the Tyrion-Sansa marriage? Which left Sansa free to marry Ramsay (show version). In the books it's a bit different since it's Arya (Who are ya).

But is it really a betrayal to marry her to Ramsay? And at this stage Jaime knows that Sansa has got away from Ramsay.

Dont remember any annulment except that Littlefinger claimed that as her maidenhood was intact her first marriage wasnt valid - at which point Roose said he didnt care about her maidenhood, only her name.

Well Roose and Tywin were in cahoots re the Red Wedding. Then after that Sansa was married to Tyrion to secure the North. But then she legged it and they married her to Ramsay - so that would have removed the Lannister claim on the North.

Yes, Jaime is up to date on current events, Im just trying to see a situation where he would choose to take the Lannister army to Winterfell (and support Jon Snow)- I just cant see him supporting the Boltons after they betrayed his family. But unless he supports Sansa into Winterfell so that the Lannisters get their claim on the North back....?

What other reason might he support Jon/Sansa?

homerun_homer

For some reason I've a feeling Ramsay won't be killed just yet. I worry for Wun Wun but curious about a lot of people here thinking Davos will get killed. How come?

I hope he doesn't, Westeros needs a level head like his in the show.

conorhal

homerun_homer wrote: »

For some reason I've a feeling Ramsay won't be killed just yet. I worry for Wun Wun but curious about a lot of people here thinking Davos will get killed. How come?

I hope he doesn't, Westeros needs a level head like his in the show.

Wun Wun will be subject to (budget) cuts. Like direwolves, he's just too damn expensive to survive.....

ec18

Does anyone else think that Ramsay will in.....it'd be very GOT

G.Ames

I Think this episode will be the highlight of this season!
I'm so excited of this Episode.
I hope it comes to a fight between Ramsey and Jon, and I wonder what happens to Rickon.

Now there is no longer even mini - synopses to the final episodes of the current season six, does anybody know why?

Mr Freeze

Tenger wrote: »

Far too American for my taste.

A valid point, now I don't even like it.

CMOTDibbler

intheclouds wrote: »

Yes, Jaime is up to date on current events, Im just trying to see a situation where he would choose to take the Lannister army to Winterfell (and support Jon Snow)- I just cant see him supporting the Boltons after they betrayed his family. But unless he supports Sansa into Winterfell so that the Lannisters get their claim on the North back....?

What other reason might he support Jon/Sansa?

None. I can't see any reason for a Lannister army to head north. At best it might do so to defend the Boltons but never to support the Starks.

Jaime is hell bent on getting back to Kings Landing. He will have to leave some sort of garrison in Riverrun to keep Edmure honest but he would need the rest back in Kings Landing I would suspect.

Though if Cersei goes full Aerys, he'd probably be better off staying put.

Dave_The_Sheep

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Though if Cersei goes full Aerys, he'd probably be better off staying put.

Someone has to kill her. Prophecy says it will be him or Tyrion, if memory serves.

CMOTDibbler

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Someone has to kill her. Prophecy says it will be him or Tyrion, if memory serves.

Prophecy said the Valonqar (little brother). The general belief is that this refers to either Tyrion or Jaime since both are younger than her. But it doesn't say who's Valonqar, so any number of people could be her killer.

intheclouds

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Prophecy said the Valonqar (little brother). The general belief is that this refers to either Tyrion or Jaime since both are younger than her. But it doesn't say who's Valonqar, so any number of people could be her killer.

Perhaps Tommen. Joffreys little brother.

I think they are pushing it to be its her against him.

duffman13

intheclouds wrote: »

Perhaps Tommen. Joffreys little brother.

I think they are pushing it to be its her against him.

Was literally just about to post the same. In some ways by taking away a trial by combat could be what kills her. Is her crime punishable by death?

rawn

duffman13 wrote:

Was literally just about to post the same. In some ways by taking away a trial by combat could be what kills her. Is her crime punishable by death?

What is she on trial for in the show? Fornication only? Or the auld incest as well. If it's fornication only then maybe not. For incest yes, but that would be a death sentence for Tommen too

blackwhite

rawn wrote: »

What is she on trial for in the show? Fornication only? Or the auld incest as well. If it's fornication only then maybe not. For incest yes, but that would be a death sentence for Tommen too

I'd imagine it's for incest with Lancel - with godboy being the star witness.

Cantstandsya

Not sure if this has been mentioned (haven't read every post) I reckon that by the end of this episode Davos will have discovered what Melisandre did to Shereen and, in response, either he or Jon will kill her.

I think it would be good to see Jon plunge a sword into her and pull it out aflame with Melisandre seeing this while she draws her last breaths before dying, faith fully restored.

intheclouds

blackwhite wrote: »

I'd imagine it's for incest with Lancel - with godboy being the star witness.

Its not incest with Lancel - he is her cousin.

Its adultery - remember she was saying to the High Sparrow that it wasnt an excuse but that Robert was whoring about as well.

amos13

pinkypinky wrote:

Cersei thinks Sansa was involved with Joffrey's death but I'm not sure that Jaime does.

He doesn't. He seemed to genuinely believe tyrion when he said they played no part. Otherwise he wouldn't have released him.
My argument for jaime reaching winter fell is this:
Jaime made a vow to catelyn Stark which he fobbed off by giving brienne the job. He may want to follow through on his oath himself.
He knows brienne is loyal, honourable, and wouldn't support the Stark cause if she didn't believe in it. And he trusts her.
He promised her she could take the Tully army, but now she's left with nothing. He'll want to remedy that.
His treatment of Edmure and spiel about getting back to cersei is a cute way of making it all the more shocking for the viewer when he turns up.
If he helps them, he may think it would make the north, the riverlands, and the vale loyal to the crown again and bring peace back to the realm. Or at the very least, not rebellious houses.

At this point, we have the general overall outlook of who will be on which side foe the eventual battle for the iron throne:
Team Daenerys: Dorne, Iron islands, possibly Highgarden, unsullied, second sons, khalasar, 3 dragons.
Team Usurper: the North, the Vale, the wildlings, possibly Riverrun.

Undecided: the westerlands, the Reach, the stormlands.

I think Dany is looking pretty invincible

blackwhite

intheclouds wrote: »

Its not incest with Lancel - he is her cousin.

You from Leitrim by any chance?

(although I believe you are correct - Westeros also follows the Leitrim/Alabama rules on cousin-riding).

intheclouds wrote: »

Its adultery - remember she was saying to the High Sparrow that it wasnt an excuse but that Robert was whoring about as well.

Now that you mention it, I think this is actually the right vein of thought - except I've some nagging thought in the back of my mind that it was mentioned somewhere that it's considered treason to commit adultery against the King

J. Marston

Cersei is on trial for fornication, incest, treason and the murder of King Bobby.

She's definitely dead if she loses.

Cantstandsya

intheclouds wrote: »

Its not incest with Lancel - he is her cousin.

Its adultery - remember she was saying to the High Sparrow that it wasnt an excuse but that Robert was whoring about as well.

Pity the High Sparrow banned trial by combat... there's a guy in Shelbyville who could have helped Cersei out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQwPK2CEjiw

intheclouds

blackwhite wrote: »

You from Leitrim by any chance?

(although I believe you are correct - Westeros also follows the Leitrim/Alabama rules on cousin-riding).

Actually its not incest anywhere to be riding your first cousin - its just the Catholics have to get permission from Rome to marry a first cousin - but thats canon law not real law

Disclaimer - I have not been riding my cousins.

blackwhite

intheclouds wrote: »

Actually its not incest anywhere to be riding your first cousin - its just the Catholics have to get permission from Rome to marry a first cousin - but thats canon law not real law

Disclaimer - I have not been riding my cousins.

More than half States in the US have cousin-marriage defined as incest and prohibited on their statute books, and it's even a criminal offence in a number of them.

Lesson - be careful where you go on holidays in the states if you hail from Shelbyville :pac:

intheclouds

blackwhite wrote: »

More than half States in the US have cousin-marriage defined as incest and prohibited on their statute books, and it's even a criminal offence in a number of them.

Lesson - be careful where you go on holidays in the states if you hail from Shelbyville :pac:

Wow! Never knew that!

EagererBeaver

I think focusing on the battle for the Iron Throne is missing the point. If Tommen dies, very few will have any interest in opposing Dany - Stark and Tully don't want it, all the Barratheons are dead and no Lannisters or Tyrrell's have a tight unless Tommen gets to work on Margaery quickly.

What's important is how Dany and her bloodlust and dragons get turned north to fight the White Walkers.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Degag wrote: »

Someone big is going to die and i think Tormund has served his purpose.

I'd take a punt on Brienne as well, agree that it feels like a big death is coming but Tormund is still useful to rally the Wildlings when they don't listen to Jon. She's pretty much done everything she's supposed to, and she had that lingering goodbye stare with Jaime last week, which seems like it's a death sentence for one of them if I know my TV. Of course she'd have to get back in time with no horse, but feck it, why not?

Giselle Many Turpentine

Giselle Many Turpentine wrote: »

I'd take a punt on Brienne as well, agree that it feels like a big death is coming but Tormund is still useful to rally the Wildlings when they don't listen to Jon. She's pretty much done everything she's supposed to, and she had that lingering goodbye stare with Jaime last week, which seems like it's a death sentence for one of them if I know my TV. Of course she'd have to get back in time with no horse, but feck it, why not?

Speaking of which, I got nervous for Tyrion once I heard him talking about his dream of opening his own vineyard someday. Tyrion, you fool, announcing your life's goals in this show is the easiest way of making the devil laugh.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

stankratz wrote: »

Speaking of which, I got nervous for Tyrion once I heard him talking about his dream of opening his own vineyard someday. Tyrion, you fool, announcing your life's goals in this show is the easiest way of making the devil laugh.

Retire-ony I believe it's called

rawn

J. Marston wrote: »

Cersei is on trial for fornication, incest, treason and the murder of King Bobby.

She's definitely dead if she loses.

I think that's just in the books

nynik

Pycel is the grand-maester right? But he clearly can't be running the show from King's Landing, plus... he's a bit of a ditz. Is this elaborated at all in the books so far? Thanks.

EagererBeaver

nynik wrote: »

Pycel is the grand-maester right? But he clearly can't be running the show from King's Landing, plus... he's a bit of a ditz. Is this elaborated at all in the books so far? Thanks.

What do you mean by running the show? He's an adviser, not a ruler.