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Season 6 Episode 7 "The Broken Man" - "Book readers"

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    #92
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    Also I can't be the only person hoping LSH doesn't appear
    It makes sense in the books but with The Hound, Jon Snow and Benjen (and Blackfish and Edmure to a lesser degree) all making "comebacks" it would be a little ridiculous this season imo
    They could just have it that the BWB have lost their way or something

    Sure some people are expecting Stannis back, even though they have mentioned that he is dead in nearly every episode this season.


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    #93
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    Sure some people are expecting Stannis back, even though they have mentioned that he is dead in nearly every episode this season.

    Have they? Once I recall a definite confirmation - when Brienne stated it at Castle Black. Ramsay/Roose discussing it wasnt a confirmation. Dont remember any other references?

    People are still expecting him because
    there is an image in one of the trailers that looks just like him fighting behind Tormund at Winterfell. Its a very very brief image but someone has stilled it and it really does look remarkably like him.
    Plus theres the fact that they did a weird cut away and didnt show the death. And the odd statement he made to Brienne about "Do your duty". Theres quite a bit of smoking gun on it - more than with the Hound and he's back!


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    #94
    EagererBeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 6,411 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    GerB40 wrote: »
    "...It is said that my home can hold a siege with 500 men against 10,000. I do hope you have 500 men bastard, we may find the truth behind that statement".

    Yours, Lady Sansa Stark of Winterfell.

    500?! Ramsay could hold it with 20 good ones.


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    #95
    rawn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    EagererBeaver wrote:
    500?! Ramsay could hold it with 20 good ones.


    The key is to go shirtless, to dazzle the enemies.


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    #96
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    EagererBeaver wrote: »
    500?! Ramsay could hold it with 20 good ones.

    #twentygoodmen


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    #97
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,150 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    There's been stills of the letter and it's addressed to Littlefinger. So unless she's hoping it gets intercepted... but then why wouldn't the Boltons go meet the wildling/North army since they're more poorly equipped.

    I think there was foreshadowing in Davos' speech about how Stannis chose the same camp location with its rear fortification of the mountain. I expect the Boltons to meet them out in the battlefield.
    For anyone else interested in the still of the letter:

    http://i.imgur.com/PgqohMA.jpg

    I'm disappointed tbh, would have loved to see her play Littlefinger...


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    #98
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    rawn wrote: »
    The key is to go shirtless, to dazzle the enemies.

    And dual wield.


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    #99
    rawn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    Sleepy wrote:
    For anyone else interested in the still of the letter:

    Sleepy wrote:
    For anyone else interested in the still of the letter:


    Could she have written to Sweetrobin rather than LF? Either way I'm disappointed too, was really hoping she was learning to play the game. She should know by now that LF can never be trusted. Sansa fast became my favorite character in the books because of her steady character progression, the show keeps flip-flopping her imo.


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    #100
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    intheclouds wrote: »
    How can you say the current Euron is crap at this stage, he has only been onscreen for about 2 minutes!

    I wouldn't say crap but I think the casting has been a bit off in this case. He's not believable as Balon's brother- Balon was an elderly man, this dude looks barely out of his 30s.

    I think he'll work out and he looks a good actor but McShane, as imo one of the finest TV actors ever, would have been a better fit. I can picture him ranting and raving as a sort of unhinged Al Sweeengen of the seas.


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    #101
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    rawn wrote: »
    Could she have written to Sweetrobin rather than LF? Either way I'm disappointed too, was really hoping she was learning to play the game. She should know by now that LF can never be trusted. Sansa fast became my favorite character in the books because of her steady character progression, the show keeps flip-flopping her imo.

    She is playing the game!

    She knows she needs more men and that LF is hopelessly in love with her and eager to make amends. He also happens to be at the head of one of the largest armies in Westeros- one that is still entirely fresh.

    She wouldn't be playing the game if she didn't attempt to harness him.


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    #102
    rawn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    DeadHand wrote:
    I think he'll work out and he looks a good actor but McShane, as imo one of the finest TV actors ever, would have been a better fit. I can picture him ranting and raving as a sort of unhinged Al Sweeengen of the seas.


    I dunno, I'd hate to see McShane having to utter the "let's murder them" line :P


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    #103
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    DeadHand wrote: »
    He's not believable as Balon's brother- Balon was an elderly man, this dude looks barely out of his 30s.

    Cant see anything not believable about that? The way some of these guys go through wives there could be 50+ years between siblings - Walder Frey being the most pertinent example.

    Id have put screen Balon in his late 50s/early 60s and screen Euron in his late 30s/early 40s so nothing I cant believe there except perhaps they had different mothers.

    Mind you screen Balon could be younger and just a bit worn out looking.


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    #104
    rawn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    DeadHand wrote:
    She is playing the game!


    She's begging for help from a man who had promised to protect her and married her to a monster. After her standing up to him a few episodes ago for breaking that promise and refusing his aid it's a shame to see her practically begging him to now keep the broken promise. It seems more "trusting, naive Sansa" than "manipulative, clever Sansa" IMO.


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    #105
    Bandana boy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,325 ✭✭✭Bandana boy


    intheclouds wrote: »
    Cant see anything not believable about that? The way some of these guys go through wives there could be 50+ years between siblings - Walder Frey being the most pertinent example.

    Id have put screen Balon in his late 50s/early 60s and screen Euron in his late 30s/early 40s so nothing I cant believe there except perhaps they had different mothers.

    Mind you screen Balon could be younger and just a bit worn out looking.

    ASOIAF Wiki has Euron between 31 and 43


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    #106
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Bandana boy wrote: »
    ASOIAF Wiki has Euron between 31 and 43

    It also has Balon around the same age, 38 to 43, but we know he's the eldest. The problem is that they had a 70 year old playing Balon on screen.


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    #107
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    It also has Balon around the same age, 38 to 43, but we know he's the eldest. The problem is that they had a 70 year old playing Balon on screen.

    Wow - he looks great for 70!


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    #108
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    rawn wrote: »
    She's begging for help from a man who had promised to protect her and married her to a monster. After her standing up to him a few episodes ago for breaking that promise and refusing his aid it's a shame to see her practically begging him to now keep the broken promise. It seems more "trusting, naive Sansa" than "manipulative, clever Sansa" IMO.

    I'd hardly call it begging. What would be more naive is marching on Winterfell with fewer (thanks Stannis) soldiers than are inside it. Retaking Winterfell is a good deal more important than her feelings- she has matured enough to realise this.

    Just going by the show, I'm of the opinion that LF passed Sansa onto the Boltons and then claimed an abduction in order to give Robin a Casus belli against Winterfell. In the ensuing chaos, he planned for Sansa to be installed as a submissive Wardeness of the North- puppeted by him Robinstyle. Beyond that, perhaps he has ambitions to unite the Vale, what's left of the Riverlands and the North, ally with Dorne and make a play for the Iron Throne, installing a puppet monarch with him as a dominant Hand- thus gaining what he always desired: absolute power.

    He gambled that, Sansa being the last known Stark, she would not be harmed. Ramsey's madness and Sansa's escape threw a spanner in the works but the plan is still roughly on course. I genuinely think that LF misunderstood Ramsey's nature- in their one scene together Ramsey is all humble charm and Bealish seems quite taken in. LF slipped up and genuinely regrets Sansa's ordeal.

    That's not to say LF is not an manipulative, evil little sh*t- he is. He has used and lied to Sansa in the most cynical ways possible. I believe Sansa finally recognises this now. But not to use him when they need what he can bring so badly would be stupidity.

    I think many are underestimating Sansa- she isn't begging him. She is attempting to use him the same way he used her. Sansa understands LF's game now and is going to play him at it.


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    #109
    Hrududu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,711 ✭✭✭Hrududu


    intheclouds wrote: »
    People are still expecting him because
    there is an image in one of the trailers that looks just like him fighting behind Tormund at Winterfell. Its a very very brief image but someone has stilled it and it really does look remarkably like him.
    Plus theres the fact that they did a weird cut away and didnt show the death. And the odd statement he made to Brienne about "Do your duty". Theres quite a bit of smoking gun on it - more than with the Hound and he's back!
    When they went to talk to Lady Lyanna last night the advisor on her right was the spit of Stannis.
    Maybe that's who's fighting behind Tormond


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    #110
    rawn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    DeadHand wrote:
    I think many are underestimating Sansa- she isn't begging him. She is attempting to use him the same way he used her. Sansa understands LF's game now and is going to play him at it.


    I do agree with most of your points, definitely, i just feel Sansa is being naive if she thinks she can ask for his help and then be in control of the situation. She's underestimating his control, once he's brought back into the thick of it he will twist things to his own advantage and she may not even see it.


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    #111
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Hrududu wrote: »
    When they went to talk to Lady Lyanna last night the advisor on her right was the spit of Stannis.
    Maybe that's who's fighting behind Tormond

    Yeah. Could be anyone really.

    Heres a link to the image in question - do not click this link if you are not wearing your tin foil hat please.

    http://i.imgur.com/ocZcgC3.png


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    #112
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    rawn wrote: »
    I do agree with most of your points, definitely, i just feel Sansa is being naive if she thinks she can ask for his help and then be in control of the situation. She's underestimating his control, once he's brought back into the thick of it he will twist things to his own advantage and she may not even see it.

    There's also Chekov's White Lie from before, when she said her source about Riverrun was a raven to Winterfell and never mentioned LF to Jon. Seeing as it's Sansa and seeing as she's being proactive, I assume something is going to go disastrously wrong for her at some point soon :pac:


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    #113
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users Posts: 18,083 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Balon lost his uprising, two of his sons died, his remaining male heir stolen into exile that would age anyone.

    Crows Eye uses magic similar to the red woman. Glamour charms would be my guess as Aaron and Balon both look much older than Euron.


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    #114
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    Stannis doppelganger at the camp with Lyanna Mormont.
    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    I think there was foreshadowing in Davos' speech about how Stannis chose the same camp location with its rear fortification of the mountain. I expect the Boltons to meet them out in the battlefield.

    I think Davos mentioned the camp because he'll go for a little wander and find the barbecue from last season.


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    #115
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    Stannis doppelganger at the camp with Lyanna Mormont.

    Wheres that image from?

    Is that the same guy who was beside her when she was seeing Jon/Sansa/Davos?


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    #116
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    I think Davos mentioned the camp because he'll go for a little wander and find the barbecue from last season.

    I was fully expecting him to see the post where Shireen was burnt in that scene last night.

    Funny how Stannis is still a great commander when people talk about him, despite Ramsay and his 20 good men easily sabotaging his camp while being spotted and counted, then his suicidal walk to Winterfell on foot to lay siege with no siege equipment.

    If I was Davos, I wouldn't even mention Stannis now!

    Despite that, Book Stannis does seem to have some sort of plan for an attack on WF or deflecting a Bolton attack and I think thats what we are going to see Jon do in Ep9, use Book Stannis tactics to beat the Boltons.


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    #117
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    intheclouds wrote: »
    Wheres that image from?

    Is that the same guy who was beside her when she was seeing Jon/Sansa/Davos?
    From the camp scene. Davos and Jon go to break up the fight, Sansa hears the raven squawk, looks across and sees the maester unloading the cart. Looks like the same guy.

    Anyway, Stannis is dead, we all have to learn to get behind the new Mannis, Lady Lyanna Mormont.


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    #118
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    rawn wrote: »
    I do agree with most of your points, definitely, i just feel Sansa is being naive if she thinks she can ask for his help and then be in control of the situation. She's underestimating his control, once he's brought back into the thick of it he will twist things to his own advantage and she may not even see it.

    I think she knows the risk, and she's willing to do a dance with Littlefinger and see who comes out on top. It's like the Lannisters calling in Highgarden. They were under no illusions that the Tyrells were going to be uncomplicated allies, but they were allies nonetheless.

    The Starks can't take Winterfell without the knights of the Vale, and that means getting into bed with Littlefinger. Which is actually encouraging: it shows that Sansa is willing to engage in moral and political flexibility. Their inability to do so is what got Robb and Ned killed despite their other strengths.


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    #119
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    When i saw lady mormont at the camp I actually blurted out " omg she is so cool"


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    #120
    J. Marston
    Registered Users Posts: 23,104 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    Stannis doppelganger at the camp with Lyanna Mormont.



    I think Davos mentioned the camp because he'll go for a little wander and find the barbecue from last season.
    Poor Davos. Imagine this...

    11355171_1446108425709672_162799665_n.jpg

    but multiplied by 100 when he finds the pyre. Melisandre won't last long after that.


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    #121
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,142 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    Stannis doppelganger at the camp with Lyanna Mormont.



    I think Davos mentioned the camp because he'll go for a little wander and find the barbecue from last season.

    Still smelling of hotdogs


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