Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Should another Garda Commissioner resign?

Options
1…34689…64

Comments

  • Options
    #152
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    I'd say she has only the best of legal advice on this and knows what she's doing.


  • Options
    #153
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    pilly wrote: »
    I'd say she has only the best of legal advice on this and knows what she's doing.

    Yes indeed, the best money can buy. She is not that clever. It's important that she keeps in position to protect the rotten force and have a heads up what is going on. Such a lucrative business needs to be protected.


  • Options
    #154
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    pilly wrote: »
    I'd say she has only the best of legal advice on this and knows what she's doing.
    I'd hazard a guess that she also has dirt on many senior politicians (given Callinan had minor dirt on Wallace) and this is used to help steer politicians towards making correct decisions regarding her force.


  • Options
    #155
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    kbannon wrote: »
    I'd hazard a guess that she also has dirt on many senior politicians (given Callinan had minor dirt on Wallace) and this is used to help steer politicians towards making correct decisions regarding her force.

    She's there to take as much dirt as possible to leave it cleaner for the next guy.


  • Options
    #156
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    These people can move onto lucrative jobs when they retire anyway.
    Derek byrne for example, who was a high ranked officer who has since retired, is now chief of police in the Camen Islands.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #157
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    pilly wrote: »
    I'd say she has only the best of legal advice on this and knows what she's doing.

    500,000 of taxpayers money has been spent so far by Noirin on her legal team for the Chaleston Tribunal


  • Options
    #158
    jonsnow
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    Boggy Turf wrote: »
    Mick Clifford is a brilliant jouranlist. We need more like him.

    The amazing thing about Mick Clifford is that he wasnt a crime journlist at all. He just got involved in the McCabe story and he was the only one properly covering it as the crime hacks are so tied up with their garda pals.


  • Options
    #159
    Boggy Turf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 427 ✭✭Boggy Turf


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    Leo Varadkar said in today's leaders questions that both he and the Government had confidence in the Commissioner and the problems faced by the force predated her tenure as Garda Commissioner.

    Nothing ever changes!

    Wow. Disappointed that Leo would say that. I thought he was more honest.


  • Options
    #160
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Boggy Turf wrote: »
    Wow. Disappointed that Leo would say that. I thought he was more honest.

    Nothing to do with honesty, it's weakness or Noirin knows stuff that might make people be hesitant to act. She acts like a person with power and self assurance. The State created An Garda, but An Garda now acts like its independent of the State, a law onto itself?


  • Options
    #161
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,146 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    We all know the owner who expresses total loyalty to the team manager. The same guy who finds himself out on his ear 2 weeks later.
    The problem is Leo has only 2 choices, confidence or any other word, that really means no confidence.

    That could change quite soon. One more slip.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #162
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Water John wrote: »
    We all know the owner who expresses total loyalty to the team manager. The same guy who finds himself out on his ear 2 weeks later.
    The problem is Leo has only 2 choices, confidence or any other word, that really means no confidence.

    That could change quite soon. One more slip.

    Yesterday the CSO suspended issuing any more crime statistics until they can actually have trust in the data the Gardai are supplying them with. It is looking now like AGS have been fiddling the homicide rates. I would expect more to come too- I have always been astounded by their claimed figures for solving burglaries and have suspected for a long time that the amount they are solving is nowhere near the truth.

    In the next few weeks we could have more revelations that show widespread fiddling of crime stats. Given that the Charleston tribunal wont issue a final report for another 14 months or so I would think that the next AGS scandal that comes along will be an opportune moment for Leo to sack her.

    Personally I think he should have fired her on day one of being Taoiseach, it would have shown a bit of leadership and sent a clear message to the public that things are going to be different with him in charge, instead it is looking like more of the same, at least thus far.


  • Options
    #163
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Muahahaha wrote:
    Personally I think he should have fired her on day one of being Taoiseach, it would have shown a bit of leadership and sent a clear message to the public that things are going to be different with him in charge, instead it is looking like more of the same, at least thus far.


    If that was the case then we'd be firing every new commissioner every few months.


  • Options
    #164
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Personally I think he should have fired her on day one of being Taoiseach, it would have shown a bit of leadership and sent a clear message to the public that things are going to be different with him in charge, instead it is looking like more of the same, at least thus far.

    That sounds like a very political reason for firing her. It's the political aspect of that job that is the big problem.


  • Options
    #165
    For Reals
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭For Reals


    Great to see the Jobstown protesters vindicated. Shameful behavior from the Garda and a politician formally of note.
    I hope there's a look into the false statements made by the senior Garda involved.


  • Options
    #166
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    For Reals wrote: »
    Great to see the Jobstown protesters vindicated. Shameful behavior from the Garda and a politician formally of note.
    I hope there's a look into the false statements made by the senior Garda involved.

    Can you elaborate on the false statements part?


  • Options
    #167
    Boggy Turf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 427 ✭✭Boggy Turf


    For Reals wrote: »
    Great to see the Jobstown protesters vindicated. Shameful behavior from the Garda and a politician formally of note.
    I hope there's a look into the false statements made by the senior Garda involved.

    Yes 6 Gardai did a dawn raid when they could just as easily have tapped him on the shoulder in the Dáil (where he works).

    Another own goal by the corrupt Gardaí.


  • Options
    #168
    For Reals
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭For Reals


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    Can you elaborate on the false statements part?

    It was put to the jury that members gave false statements of evidence.
    It's been well covered for months.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/garda-accused-of-giving-false-evidence-at-jobstown-trial-1.3085458

    Also the Judge seemed to think so.

    IMO, there certainly seemed to be a bias against a fair hearing from day one.
    In her ruling in the absence of the jury that ultimately led to the charges against him being dropped, Judge Melanie Greally said that the extension of Mr Purcell's garda detention in February 2015 was unlawful.

    "Putting it mildly, the first three hours of his detention were not put to good use," the judge said.

    She noted the superintendent who made the decision to extend his detention was given a "misleading" impression as to how the investigation was progressing that day.

    "The casual and languid approach of the interviews is inexplicable on the face of an arrest that was pre-planned and carried out at 7.30am with great precision," she said...

    ..Paul Murphy said what happened in court was "disgusting".

    He said three gardaí had claimed they heard him asking the crowd in Jobstown if they should keep Ms Burton there for the night, when he had never said that.

    He asked if they had not had video evidence, where would the defendants be today?
    https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0629/886505-jobstown/


  • Options
    #169
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    For Reals wrote: »
    It was put to the jury that members gave false statements of evidence.

    That's not what it says at all.


  • Options
    #170
    For Reals
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭For Reals


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    That's not what it says at all.

    Can you elaborate on that?
    A garda has been accused of lying “in a dishonest and disreputable fashion” about Solidarity TD Paul Murphy’s actions on the day of the water protest.
    Seán Guerin SC, defending Mr Murphy, suggested to Garda Gavin Cooke that he had deliberately toned down his “false” evidence in a “cowardly” way, Dublin Circuit Criminal Court heard on Tuesday.

    Members gave very colorful testimony that wasn't believed by the court. Where's the confusion?

    Luckily the video evidence showed the truth. It's a bigger issue than the individuals involved.

    It was only right it was raised today in the Dail.
    Ms Fitzgerald said she would not comment on the trial given there is a possibility that the court's decision could be appealed.

    Mr Barry suggested that An Garda Síochána engaged "in orchestrated conspiracy to pervert the course of justice."

    He said evidence given by three members of the Garda claimed they heard Deputy Paul Murphy say: "Will we let her go, or will we keep her for the night?"

    Mr Barry said this claim was contradicted completely during the trial and questioned whether it was possible that the three gardaí misheard.
    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2017/0629/886525-jobstown-reaction/

    Of course the 'nothing to see here' attitude from the minister for Justice fits right snug with O'Sullivan.


  • Options
    #171
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    For Reals wrote: »
    Can you elaborate on that?



    Members gave very colorful testimony that wasn't believed by the court. Where's the confusion?

    Luckily the video evidence showed the truth. It's a bigger issue than the individuals involved.

    It was only right it was raised today in the Dail.

    You've alleged perjury. It's a very serious offence. And your support for this is a cross examination by a defense barrister and inconsistencies in some of what they said. Witnesses get things wrong, it doesn't mean they made false statements.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #172
    For Reals
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭For Reals


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    You've alleged perjury. It's a very serious offence. And your support for this is a cross examination by a defense barrister and inconsistencies in some of what they said. Witnesses get things wrong, it doesn't mean they made false statements.

    Three Garda gave the same statement shown to be false and inaccurate. Three of them saw and heard the same thing that never happened. It warrants investigating IMO.

    The right to protest is a key facet of democracy and should be diligently defended.


  • Options
    #173
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    You've alleged perjury. It's a very serious offence. And your support for this is a cross examination by a defense barrister and inconsistencies in some of what they said. Witnesses get things wrong, it doesn't mean they made false statements.

    Actually if you commit perjury in this state you have no committed a crime. If you are found to be lying the judge can dismiss you and evidence you gave but there is other action that can be taken against you.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-haphazard-state-of-perjury-law-1.357008


  • Options
    #174
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,248 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Floppybits wrote: »
    Actually if you commit perjury in this state you have no committed a crime. If you are found to be lying the judge can dismiss you and evidence you gave but there is other action that can be taken against you.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-haphazard-state-of-perjury-law-1.357008

    That doesn't say it is not a crime, neither does it say it is not serious, all it says is that the existing law on perjury makes it difficult to secure a conviction.


  • Options
    #175
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    blanch152 wrote: »
    That doesn't say it is not a crime, neither does it say it is not serious, all it says is that the existing law on perjury makes it difficult to secure a conviction.

    So you can go into court and lie to your hearts content and all that will happen is that you will be dismissed by the judge? Right or wrong? You wont be charged with anything and will suffer no consequences?


  • Options
    #176
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,146 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Very strongly of the belief that the Gardai needs to be whooly reformed a la PSNI. But I can't stand Paul Murphy et al. Gobdaw loud mouths, going nowhere.

    BTW, I have a lot of time for Claire Daly and Mick Wallace and others in the DAIL of similar views. Genuine people.


  • Options
    #177
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    For Reals wrote: »
    Three Garda gave the same statement shown to be false and inaccurate. Three of them saw and heard the same thing that never happened. It warrants investigating IMO.

    Again, can you please link to what you are talking about.
    For Reals wrote: »
    The right to protest is a key facet of democracy and should be diligently defended.

    So is the right to go about your day without fear of bodily harm.


  • Options
    #178
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,158 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    Again, can you please link to what you are talking about.

    He's linked above what he's talking about - but constantly asking for links seems to be the preferred defense for you in this case generally:
    Zebra3 wrote: »
    The judge pretty much told the jury to ignore all the statements from members of AGS, and instead to focus on video evidence.

    The judge basically calling them liars.
    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Less embarrassing than a judge directing a jury to ignore Garda statements contravened by Garda footage imo.
    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    Never saw that in the reports. Have you any link to where it was reported?


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/jobstown-trial-jury-resume-deliberations-after-being-recharged-35874561.html
    Judge Greally went on to direct the jurors on the video footage the jury had seen and reminded them that the oral testimony was of lesser importance.

    The video was “the best and most reliable account” of the events, she said. She pointed to the defence assertion that Scott Masterson’s actions on the video and that he “invites the gardai to get Joan Burton out of the car” was inconsistent with guilt.
    Addressing the jury on policing, she said they should consider the absence of garda statements raised questions about the fairness of the investigation and whether there was any policing “agenda,” in particular in relation to Paul Murphy.

    This is just another episode that calls into question the integrity of the force. If you take a step back and look at the broader level, it's becoming increasingly commonplace for Garda practice, procedures or assertions to be misaligned with the truth or with what is fair. No single Garda Commissioner shoulders the blame for that, the entire culture of the force is rotten.


  • Options
    #179
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    He's linked above what he's talking about - but constantly asking for links seems to be the preferred defense for you in this case generally:

    If posters are alleging specific things happened I don't see how it's a bad thing to look for a link to the report they are drawing from so that I can respond to it properly, especially as it is clear from the last few pages that some posters have no issue embellishing the truth.


  • Options
    #180
    For Reals
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭For Reals


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    Again, can you please link to what you are talking about.
    Paul Murphy said what happened in court was "disgusting".

    He said three gardaí had claimed they heard him asking the crowd in Jobstown if they should keep Ms Burton there for the night, when he had never said that.

    He asked if they had not had video evidence, where would the defendants be today?

    He said there was clearly a conspiracy to try to criminalise the anti-water charges movement and Jobstown.
    https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0629/886505-jobstown/

    I linked this yesterday and you responded, so I assume read it. If you're working towards a point, please do.

    Three Garda gave false statements regarding Murphy saying 'Should we keep her all night'. It's in the papers. I cannot possibly be any clearer. As to whether it was intentional or not would be a matter for the courts. I suppose they may have been suffering from a mass delusion also known as mass hysteria.
    In sociology and psychology, mass hysteria (also known as collective hysteria, group hysteria, or collective obsessional behavior) is a phenomenon that transmits collective illusions of threats, whether real or imaginary, through a population in society as a result of rumors and fear (memory acknowledgment).[1][2]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria
    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    So is the right to go about your day without fear of bodily harm.

    Quite right.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #181
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    For Reals wrote: »
    I linked this yesterday and you responded, so I assume read it. If you're working towards a point, please do.

    Three Garda gave false statements regarding Murphy saying 'Should we keep her all night'. It's in the papers. I cannot possibly be any clearer. As to whether it was intentional or not would be a matter for the courts. I suppose they may have been suffering from a mass delusion also known as mass hysteria.

    Quite right.

    I was assuming you had an actual report or something on it.


Advertisement