Pro's and con's of Leaf

kala85

What's the procedure if a business wishes to install one. Who do they contact etc.

Water John

Soarer, you can't justify buying any new car on your useage. But often such a thing is a personal decision.

If you are going to trade up for reasons like reliability, repair costs etc, you could consider buying a second hand first Gen Leaf.

Distance is not your issue.

Kala, I presume a business can contact Nigel Daly 0862589432.
I want commission.

KCross

kala85 wrote: »

What's the procedure if a business wishes to install one. Who do they contact etc.

Depends on what the business wants. Do they want a "dumb" charger that anyone can plugin to and there is no tracking etc.. then @WaterJohn's response is fine.

If the company wants a more up market system where you swipe to gain access and the charger can be remotely monitored and usage can be tracked etc you should talk to ESB ecars. They provide an end-end managed system for a fee to any business that wants it. I presume its not cheap though.

oinkely

Soarer wrote: »

I currently drive a 15 year old 1.7 diesel Astra, and do an average of about 40kms per day across mostly short journeys. Obviously not the most efficient use of a diesel.
Fuel is about €70 per month.
Tax is €153 a quarter.
Annual servicing is whatever it costs.
Annual NCT.

I'm always wondering if I should buy a first gen Leaf. Range isn't a huge issue, and my employer said they'd put in a charge point if anyone ever gets a Leaf.
But I've no car loan at the minute, and the thought of taking one out, even though my current outgoings would nearly cover it, doesn't sit right with me.

we changed from a 2002 renault scenic to the leaf. Bought a 141 gen 1.5 and are delighted with it. Running costs are way down on the scenic and its a much nicer, quieter and faster place to be.

Liked it so much we bought a 132 gen 1 also which is equally as nice, if not a little nicer inside given the lighter coloured interior. A full charge on both gives the same range on the GOM. Turning on the heater in the winter in the gen 1 has a more marked impact on the GOM than in the 1.5. (about -15 km vs -3 to 5) No electric handbrake in the 1.5 though, while there is in the V1.

BoatMad

oinkely wrote: »

we changed from a 2002 renault scenic to the leaf. Bought a 141 gen 1.5 and are delighted with it. Running costs are way down on the scenic and its a much nicer, quieter and faster place to be.

Liked it so much we bought a 132 gen 1 also which is equally as nice, if not a little nicer inside given the lighter coloured interior. A full charge on both gives the same range on the GOM. Turning on the heater in the winter in the gen 1 has a more marked impact on the GOM than in the 1.5. (about -15 km vs -3 to 5) No electric handbrake in the 1.5 though, while there is in the V1.

Yes thinking myself of buying a 2nd leaf and parking the pickup permanently

Markcheese

I've always though you should be able to buy or hire a suitcase generator for an electric car as a range extender.. not particularly for everday stuff , but for the once or twice a week trip to cork or hire one for the annual holiday drive to greece :-) , a suitcase sized yoke that clicks into a compartment ,plugs into the power and to a vent for the exhaust and gives you extra range..
Mazda are working on a wankel one, serious power to weight output but it'll be fixed ,so more of a hybrid ..
I just wonder will most people need (the cost of) the 3 /4 hundred km cars that are coming down the track ..

BoatMad

Markcheese wrote: »

I've always though you should be able to buy or hire a suitcase generator for an electric car as a range extender.. not particularly for everday stuff , but for the once or twice a week trip to cork or hire one for the annual holiday drive to greece :-) , a suitcase sized yoke that clicks into a compartment ,plugs into the power and to a vent for the exhaust and gives you extra range..
Mazda are working on a wankel one, serious power to weight output but it'll be fixed ,so more of a hybrid ..
I just wonder will most people need (the cost of) the 3 /4 hundred km cars that are coming down the track ..

The idea makes no sense
Power to weight means the device would be too large to lift
Fuel storage and exhaust fumes have to be handled safety and require significant engineering to the car raising its cost.

What would be the point given there is s network of fast chargers anyway

And as we approach 100 kWh battery packs the percentage charge a portable generator would give would be so minuscule as to be useless

The future is battery electric lets just accept that!!

samih

Markcheese wrote: »

I've always though you should be able to buy or hire a suitcase generator for an electric car as a range extender.. not particularly for everday stuff , but for the once or twice a week trip to cork or hire one for the annual holiday drive to greece :-) , a suitcase sized yoke that clicks into a compartment ,plugs into the power and to a vent for the exhaust and gives you extra range..
Mazda are working on a wankel one, serious power to weight output but it'll be fixed ,so more of a hybrid ..
I just wonder will most people need (the cost of) the 3 /4 hundred km cars that are coming down the track ..

It would have to quite a large suitcase as well as the average energy consumption of an EV traveling at 100 km/h is 15kW/20PS. BMW does a built-in suitcase with i3 but even its 25kW generator struggles to keep up with the demand under certain conditions and with a fill of 9 liters the car only does a very limited extra distance. It would be much better to have say extra 30 kWh of battery instead.

Balmed Out

Id like to see battery banks where you would drive in pop out your spent battery and replace it with a fresh one. Any such plans?
It seems that the charging infrastructure would have to be absolutely massive to cope and the vast majority of homes are always going to be unable to supercharge so the whole way its set up at the moment seems fairly limiting.

Sabre Man

Balmed Out wrote: »

Id like to see battery banks where you would drive in pop out your spent battery and replace it with a fresh one. Any such plans?
It seems that the charging infrastructure would have to be absolutely massive to cope and the vast majority of homes are always going to be unable to supercharge so the whole way its set up at the moment seems fairly limiting.

Tesla tried it but it didn't prove popular.

BoatMad

Balmed Out wrote: »

Id like to see battery banks where you would drive in pop out your spent battery and replace it with a fresh one. Any such plans?
It seems that the charging infrastructure would have to be absolutely massive to cope and the vast majority of homes are always going to be unable to supercharge so the whole way its set up at the moment seems fairly limiting.

yes I always thought that was the way of the future , industry standard replaceable batteries that you rent in the same way you fill up a tank with fuel.

hasn't proved popular, primarily because manufacturers did their own thing and each is different

Balmed Out

Given the existing infrastructure problems with a tiny number of ev's I cant see how its not the way to go in the future though. Am I correct in thinking once batteries get to a certain size you would want to be parked up a ridiculous amount of time to charge at home or is there some other innovation on the way?

nokia69

Battery swapping is not going to happen, its like Hydrogen fool cells, popular with people who don't know what they're talking about

Water John

To go to 100Kw will really need a different type of battery and a different charging method.
There is lots of R & D going on on both these fronts.

Would be interested to know from any electrical guys here, what would be the possibilities with a 3 phase domestic supply for charging?

BoatMad

Water John wrote: »

To go to 100Kw will really need a different type of battery and a different charging method.
There is lots of R & D going on on both these fronts.

Would be interested to know from any electrical guys here, what would be the possibilities with a 3 phase domestic supply for charging?

3 phase is entirely " possible" but most estates are not cabled to support 3 phase to domestic houses

Water John

Thanks boat, but I'd still like to know the possibilities with 3 phase.

nokia69

Water John wrote: »

To go to 100Kw will really need a different type of battery and a different charging method.
There is lots of R & D going on on both these fronts.

It will be the same battery, just bigger, right now there are plenty of Model S/X on the road with 90kWh batteries charging with no problems

Water John wrote: »

Would be interested to know from any electrical guys here, what would be the possibilities with a 3 phase domestic supply for charging?

The average person has no need for 3 phase, and even if they have an EV with a 100kWh battery they still won't need it

BoatMad

The average person has no need for 3 phase, and even if they have an EV with a 100kWh battery they still won't need it

what will two car EV families with 2x 100 Kwh do then

Water John

How long would the 90Kw take on a domestic charger, considering the present supply?

I am asking the question re 3 phase.
It reminds me once of some poster asking about ride on lawnmower. The first reply said it would be better for his health if he bought a push lawnmower!!

nokia69

BoatMad wrote: »

what will two car EV families with 2x 100 Kwh do then

They will charge the cars at night just like everyone else

plenty of people in the US with 2 90kWh Teslas, charging fine with no 3 phase

I know you have a serious problem understanding this, but just because some one has a 200 or 300 mile EV it does NOT mean they will be going on epic cross country trips every day, they will do no more or less driving than anyone else

BoatMad

Water John wrote: »

How long would the 90Kw take on a domestic charger, considering the present supply?

I am asking the question re 3 phase.
It reminds me once of some poster asking about ride on lawnmower. The first reply said it would be better for his health if he bought a push lawnmower!!

with a 16A Evse , in excess of 30 hours ,

with three phase , say with an 11 kw charger , around 10 hours

stesaurus

nokia69 wrote: »

It will be the same battery, just bigger, right now there are plenty of Model S/X on the road with 90kWh batteries charging with no problems



The average person has no need for 3 phase, and even if they have an EV with a 100kWh battery they still won't need it

One thing is for sure, energy usage only goes in one direction. We'll need it eventually

BoatMad

s.welstead wrote: »

One thing is for sure, energy usage only goes in one direction. We'll need it eventually

I agree, to be a successful choice over ICE, EVs must be capable of all they do and more , that means 500-700 km ranges, in all weather at motorway speeds. Cvs will have to accommodate everything from small saloons to the equivalent of big mercs etc. Thats means that 100kwh is no limit

nokia69

BoatMad wrote: »

I agree, to be a successful choice over ICE, EVs must be capable of all they do and more , that means 500-700 km ranges, in all weather at motorway speeds. Cvs will have to accommodate everything from small saloons to the equivalent of big mercs etc. Thats means that 100kwh is no limit

Na the ICE will be killed by 200 mile EVs, this will become clear when the Model 3, Bolt, Gen 2 Leaf ect go on sale

Things will be very very different by 2020

BoatMad

nokia69 wrote: »

Na the ICE will be killed by 200 mile EVs, this will become clear when the Model 3, Bolt, Gen 2 Leaf ect go on sale

Things will be very very different by 2020

I dont agree, all that 200 mile EVs will do is begin to even the score , to succeed EVs must be better all round

nokia69

s.welstead wrote: »

One thing is for sure, energy usage only goes in one direction. We'll need it eventually

We won't, and by the date you think it might happen we will be slowly converting to solar PV

Water John

Whatever the tech, charging in 8/10 hours to full at home will be needed.

I will possibly buy the new gen Leaf in 2018. Other makes will also be in the market. Basically I think it will be required by many that 100Kw will charge in 10 hours at home over night. Also the possibility to that being two cars.

I would see that as being a critical move towards a zero carbon economy.

nokia69

BoatMad wrote: »

I dont agree, all that 200 mile EVs will do is begin to even the score , to succeed EVs must be better all round

IMO the Leaf and the i3 do more than even the score, the 200mile EV at the same price is the death blow, you can't see it now because for some very strange reason you think the whole world needs/wants a 700KM range before they make the switch, its the same kind of thinking that has you believing we will all need 3 phase

BoatMad

nokia69 wrote: »

They will charge the cars at night just like everyone else

plenty of people in the US with 2 90kWh Teslas, charging fine with no 3 phase

I know you have a serious problem understanding this, but just because some one has a 200 or 300 mile EV it does NOT mean they will be going on epic cross country trips every day, they will do no more or less driving than anyone else

large houses in the states can have upto 400A split phase feeds, here in almost all cases except 3 phase, we get a 60/80 feed single phase, even smaller US houses typically have 200A split phase 240 V supply supplies, thats in excess of 48 kw of power at 240 , we in ireland typical have a consumer unit with 40A fuses, providing under 10Kw od power , see , simple

Thats why teslas can be charged in certain homes in the US

josip

nokia69 wrote: »

We won't, and by the date you think it might happen we will be slowly converting to solar PV

Solar PV won't be much use charging an EV overnight unless you have a powerwall or similar to dump it into during the day.
But if EVs are so inexpensive to run, how would one ever achieve payback on a powerwall investment?