Pro's and con's of Leaf

iseedeadpeople

hi folk. just looking for advice. I took a leaf for test drive and I love it. Up to now I don't think the distance would have made it a go for me but the new 30kw they say in real world should do 200km which is perfect for me.

now so far it seems all good. I had been planning with trade in to go to maybe 15k on an audi mind you i'm silly in the fact I like my toys so would have been 3.0 tdi with high tax and costs.

The leaf while i'd probably be spending up to 20k on it seems like its too goo to be true. low tax low insurance servicing really costing 0.

I'm a firm believer if it sounds too good to be true then it is. Of course on long drive from Dublin to Kerry I'm aware i'll need to stop off at fast charge for 30 minutes which I don't mind.

but would you get one?? reasons why you wouldn't ??

Also resale lets say I keep her a few years ok say 5 years is resale badly hit because of battery ( they say it should go 10 years) and when it gets even older are you just giving it away because battery cost so much to replace?? one thing that I always think about as we all do is resale value.

Hi and welcome to Board.ie

You need to take the leaf for more than a test drive, if you haven't already then see if the garage will let you have it for 2-3 days.

Real life in the 30 Kwh is more like 140 kms - 150 kms winter and 170-200 will be possible in Summer at 80-90 and possibly 100 Kph or a mixture.

Charging the 30 Kwh on the fast chargers is faster than the 24 Kwh and would be much better choice.

I have the 24 kwh leaf since Jan 2015 and 36,000 kms later I wouldn't drive a ICE car again as my main car. We do have a Diesel car also which is needed and use that for any trips above say 200 kms which are not many. I would appreciate the faster charging the 30 Kwh allows.

Also worth considering is the 6.6 Kw 900 Euro's extra AC cahrger, it's very useful to top up when out and about at the standard street chargers, and while most of your charging will be done at night it would be very useful if you need to top up during the day and don't have a fast charger close by or don't want to wait at fast chargers. The 6.6 Kw charger in general has meant on several occasions I've been able to avoid waiting at fast chargers or it has greatly cut down the time I need to spend at one.

Regarding battery life, today the most you would pay is 5,500 Euro's for a new battery and in 5-10 years this will be a lot less.

With an ICE car you will have to spend a lot on maintenance over 10 years anyway.

iseedeadpeople

thanks I tested one but only a short spin around. When you say a lot of maintaince what would that entail???

iseedeadpeople

iseedeadpeople wrote: »

thanks I tested one but only a short spin around. When you say a lot of maintaince what would that entail???

No, I meant maintenance on ICE cars, the amount you spend over 10 years, extra fuel and motor tax would be a lot more than the cost of a battery in 10 years , and probably 7 years time too.

The only real maintenance on a Leaf is brake fluid and coolant, the coolant should easily last 160,000 kms and the brake fluid I'm not so sure. I think 2 years.

No oil, no filters, no belts, no gears,

The pollen filter needs to be replaced once a year.

The Leaf requires a yearly inspection at 30,000 kms or once a year for warranty purposes.

BoatMad

At 5800 km after a month woth the 30 kW. I'd suggest you view it as a 160 km car. That's a good average assuming 100 kmph motoring. There's is little difference due to changes in ambient , with careful driving you can stretch it to 180 km , but it's bordering on the ridiculous.

Note that 160km is range to empty , in practice you don't want to go below 30 km unless you are very sure of your destination charging point , in my case that's my home one This gives you usable ranges of around 120-130 km.

For example I regularly do Gorey , Dublin Athlone , and return via tullamore, portlaoise , car,ow , Gorey . Typically charge at Lucan , Athlone and Carlow.

Long journeys are very feasible using the fast charger network , bear n mind that you need to allow for delays at fcps , tight schedules are not the thing driving a leaf.

peposhi

BoatMad wrote: »

At 5800 km after a month woth the 30 kW. I'd suggest you view it as a 160 km car. That's a good average assuming 100 kmph motoring. There's is little difference due to changes in ambient , with careful driving you can stretch it to 180 km , but it's bordering on the ridiculous.

Note that 160km is range to empty , in practice you don't want to go below 30 km unless you are very sure of your destination charging point , in my case that's my home one This gives you usable ranges of around 120-130 km.

For example I regularly do Gorey , Dublin Athlone , and return via tullamore, portlaoise , car,ow , Gorey . Typically charge at Lucan , Athlone and Carlow.

Long journeys are very feasible using the fast charger network , bear n mind that you need to allow for delays at fcps , tight schedules are not the thing driving a leaf.

Sorry for the off-topic OP, but BoatMad... 5800km within a month! How did you manage that kind of distance... wow

Rafal

BoatMad wrote: »

At 5800 km after a month woth the 30 kW. I'd suggest you view it as a 160 km car. That's a good average assuming 100 kmph motoring. There's is little difference due to changes in ambient , with careful driving you can stretch it to 180 km , but it's bordering on the ridiculous.

Note that 160km is range to empty , in practice you don't want to go below 30 km unless you are very sure of your destination charging point , in my case that's my home one This gives you usable ranges of around 120-130 km.

For example I regularly do Gorey , Dublin Athlone , and return via tullamore, portlaoise , car,ow , Gorey . Typically charge at Lucan , Athlone and Carlow.

Long journeys are very feasible using the fast charger network , bear n mind that you need to allow for delays at fcps , tight schedules are not the thing driving a leaf.

Having done 6500 km in our 30 kWh Leaf I generally agree with the above, if you don't drive fast or like harder accelleration. If you drive 128 kph indicated (which is 120 real on my Leaf) and you enjoy its accelleration, consider it a 100km range car especially in inclement weather. Otherwise I agree it is a 120-140km car comfortably, or 180 km if you are very careful—but to empty, which you should avoid.

Do take a weekend test drive and take it for your long journey.

September1

Servicing is cheaper, but if you stick to the schedule it not that much cheaper as intervals are only 15kkm. Cheapest service I got was below 100 and typical was 150. One was more expensive as they changed break fluid.

Fastpud

In order to work out if the Leaf is the car for you, you need to think about number of things.

1. What is your current total daily usage? Is it comfortably less than the range of the battery ie less than 170Km in the city or less than 130Kms on the motorway network. As you charge at night the car should always be full when you start again in the morning.
2. How often are you doing long inter city runs. The more you do the more you have to charge.
3. How much time are you willing to give up to charge on the long runs eg Dublin - Cork - Dublin will need at least 4 fast charges of 30 mins each
4. What speed do you like to drive at on the motorway? Once you go over 105kms the battery usage goes up quite a lot so range goes down. This and point 3 will mean longer journey times - are you ok with that?
5. Do you have a second car, if you do then this makes the decision easier. You just use the ICE for longer runs
6. Costs: How much are you spending on fuel and car tax in you current car. As the leaf is so cheap to run and tax this could help offset the cost of a new Leaf.
Public charging is currently free but expect that a fee structure will be introduced some time this year. If you plan on using public charging a lot then this will push up your costs. (Also every time you stop at a public charger you will spend money on coffee, sticky buns etc )
Do compare the monthly repayments and running costs against a similar ICE and you should find that the maths will be in the Leaf favour.

The Leaf is a great car, well spec'ed and a pleasure to drive but may not suit everyone's circumstances. Don't think I am trying to put you off, just go in with your eyes open and know its strength and weaknesses and you won't be disappointed.

I have a 30kw 161 Leaf since February and love it. It is the only car in the house and we have done a lot of inter city runs since we got it with no issues. Every one in the house loves it and the Kids refer to it as "The Startship Enterprise" - Will never go back to an ICE car!

Padraig Mor

September1 wrote: »

Servicing is cheaper, but if you stick to the schedule it not that much cheaper as intervals are only 15kkm. Cheapest service I got was below 100 and typical was 150. One was more expensive as they changed break fluid.

Interval is 30k km, or one year, whichever comes first. Dealer is taking you for a ride!

BoatMad

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Interval is 30k km, or one year, whichever comes first. Dealer is taking you for a ride!

they all put down 15Km service

I clarified this with Nissan Ireland , who said the dealer is allowed to take in " anticipated driving style and conditions in suggesting a service interval. The warranty compliant interval is 30K

September1

So basically I was overpaying for 4.5 years :-(

Padraig Mor

BoatMad wrote: »

the dealer is allowed to take in " anticipated driving style and conditions in suggesting a service interval. The warranty compliant interval is 30K

AKA take you for a ride! (I think some ICE models are 15k, hence perhaps some confusion).

qrx

hi guys,

Really interested in an electric car for commuting Gorey to Dublin. I'd need to charge up in Dublin. Are there rules for fast charging? i.e. Are they only for 30min top ups or do you get people parking in them all day? This is the one niggling doubt I have about the whole thing, commuting to Dublin only to find all the spots are taken! If the worst case scenario was a delay to fast charge then I'd be happy with that. Also, I see quite often non electric cars parked in the spots. Is there anyone enforcing this? Do these ever get towed away?

BoatMad

qrx wrote: »

hi guys,

Really interested in an electric car for commuting Gorey to Dublin. I'd need to charge up in Dublin. Are there rules for fast charging? i.e. Are they only for 30min top ups or do you get people parking in them all day? This is the one niggling doubt I have about the whole thing, commuting to Dublin only to find all the spots are taken! If the worst case scenario was a delay to fast charge then I'd be happy with that. Also, I see quite often non electric cars parked in the spots. Is there anyone enforcing this? Do these ever get towed away?

There is no need to stay at fast chargers and people move away when finished ( anything from 10 minutes to 40 mins )

Street chargers are different

It's entirely possible ( I live in Gorey ) to make the run in and then fast charge before returning.

The main issue with FCP is that you may have to queue

Rafal

qrx wrote: »

hi guys,

Really interested in an electric car for commuting Gorey to Dublin. I'd need to charge up in Dublin. Are there rules for fast charging? i.e. Are they only for 30min top ups or do you get people parking in them all day? This is the one niggling doubt I have about the whole thing, commuting to Dublin only to find all the spots are taken! If the worst case scenario was a delay to fast charge then I'd be happy with that. Also, I see quite often non electric cars parked in the spots. Is there anyone enforcing this? Do these ever get towed away?

I frequently drive the Bray to Gorey to Bray route in our new 30 kWh Leaf. I drive it fast and I enjoy the impressive accelleration of the Leaf. I can make this route without recharging in Gorey (due to the broken rapid at Maxol) but I need a small top-up of about 20-40% on the way out, or back, at Cullenmore rapid. If I go to or from Dublin that top-up becomes longer, or I use a rapid on Stillorgan road.

If you need to rely on the non-rapid chargers in Dublin, and if you have a few to choose near your destination, you should be OK, but you may need to spend some time searching for a free, non ICEd one (good luck with Golden Lane) which could take as long as the rapid top-up en-route. Once you find a street charge point, you can stay as long as you want, but beware you need to pay for parking in Dublin, which can be expensive for a day.

Any chance your employer would install a charge point at your destination?

stesaurus

qrx wrote: »

hi guys,

Really interested in an electric car for commuting Gorey to Dublin. I'd need to charge up in Dublin. Are there rules for fast charging? i.e. Are they only for 30min top ups or do you get people parking in them all day? This is the one niggling doubt I have about the whole thing, commuting to Dublin only to find all the spots are taken! If the worst case scenario was a delay to fast charge then I'd be happy with that. Also, I see quite often non electric cars parked in the spots. Is there anyone enforcing this? Do these ever get towed away?

Any chance your employer could install a charger? Even an outdoor 3 pin plug would give you plenty of juice to get you home.

qrx

No chance of employer installing a charger. We don't even have a car park. But I do have family in Dublin where I could install one and commute from there...mmm...this sounds like it might actually work

qrx

So are the charge points at the luas park and rides fast charge points only? I was assuming I could park and ride and leave my car charging all day. Sounds like you guys are saying I would have to hang around while it charges and then move my car?

stesaurus

qrx wrote: »

So are the charge points at the luas park and rides fast charge points only? I was assuming I could park and ride and leave my car charging all day. Sounds like you guys are saying I would have to hang around while it charges and then move my car?

There's both at Sandyford/Stillorgan. Slow charge you could leave it there all day. The fast charge you shouldn't leave the car for a long period. You'll be charged up in 10-40 mins so need to be there.
The fast chargers can only support 1 car charging at a time, unless a Renault Zoe, so that's why you can't leave it all day. You'd have some very annoyed people to deal with if you did that.

September1

September1 wrote: »

So basically I was overpaying for 4.5 years :-(

1 year or 30,000 kms whichever comes first.

Dealers out down 15,000 kms because that's what most petrol/diesel cars require and most people won't know the difference. But it's in the manual too.

The Idea with the fast charger is that you charge up what you need and move on, a lot of greedy people insist on staying the maximum they can tolerate sucking up all the free electricity they can get. When I needed the Naas charger I charged up for 10-15 mins on the way home. 10 mins can make all the difference particularly in the 30 Kwh which allows max power to be pulled from the charger a lot longer than the 24 Kwh.

I tend to stay maximum 2 hrs at a standard street charge point and if I have to leave the car fast charging which is very rare, I have a note on the dash with my number.

I drove just over 180 kms today not going over 100 kph and no heat, no heat used because I didn't fine it necessary with the heated seats and my coat because the sun makes it nice and cosy inside.

I usually turn the climate control to off and just press the fan button + or - if I want a blast of air and set the air direction to the windscreen and turn the fan completely off when I am comfortable. The heated seats make a big difference.

The heat pump climate control itself doesn't use a lot of energy (once preheated from the mains) and above 5 deg C below 5 deg C it consumes a notable amount of energy particularly in the - C.

I drove 91.5 Kms to Dun Laoghaire and back charging at Park Pointe. Charged for 25 mins from 30% to 85% the battery reached 5 bars about 20 mins before charging.

A warm battery really helps with the 24 Kwh.

Last night it took 50 mins to get from 17% to 80% for a test , so cold makes a big difference. I hadn't driven it much the last few days.

I could have driven about 110 kph in today's conditions, lots of surface water consumes a notable amount of energy.

Efficiency for the whole trip was about 15.5 Kwh/100 kms. Driving in Dublin traffic even though it was light has a very positive impact on range. I reckon I could have driven an easy 50 extra kms for a total of 150 kms going at up to 60 kph.

I estimate I could have driven a total of 230-240 kms with a single 25 min QC , I'd need to be actually charging at this point though but handy if you know there is a charger close, but that does depend on the weather etc.

It was nice to see an AC point beside the DC , but sadly I doubt many shopping will use the AC in their 3.3 Kw leafs as they suck as much free electricity as possible.

In the 24 Kwh leaf if you need more than 85% and you have the 6.6 Kw leaf it would be worth while moving to the AC point, from 90% the 6.6 and 3.3 Kw leafs would be better off plugged into AC.

The 6.6 Kw Leaf would get from 30-90% in about 2 hrs 10 mins (24 Kwh battery) and is highly useful, the 3.3 Kw leaf shouldn't be sold, it should be standard.

NIMAN

Quick question for the EV owners here.

I noticed my Focus Econetic is telling me that I am getting a constant 60mpg on my commute.

At 124.9c per litre, I make that €5.62 it costs me to drive 60 miles (there's 4.5 litres in a gallon, isn't there?).

So what would your EV cost you to drive 60 miles?

KCross

NIMAN wrote: »

Quick question for the EV owners here.

I noticed my Focus Econetic is telling me that I am getting a constant 60mpg on my commute.

At 124.9c per litre, I make that €5.62 it costs me to drive 60 miles (there's 4.5 litres in a gallon, isn't there?).

So what would your EV cost you to drive 60 miles?

Depending on how you drive it about 18-20 kWh's per 100km.
If you have night rate electricity at, say, 8c/kWh you can then work out the cost.

18kWh x 8c =€1.44 for 100km's (62 miles)

There are apparently some charger inefficiencies where it will cost you a little more than that but not much. Round up to €1.50 would be a good figure I'd say.

Less if you use public chargers !

September1

I think from 1.60 up to 2.00 if driven really fast.

BoatMad

September1 wrote: »

I think from 1.60 up to 2.00 if driven really fast.

Faster doesn't cost more , it just kills the range

September1

BoatMad wrote: »

Faster doesn't cost more , it just kills the range

Is range not amount of km that could be driven from fixed battery capacity? If so then how lower range would not affect cost?

BoatMad

September1 wrote: »

Is range not amount of km that could be driven from fixed battery capacity? If so then how lower range would not affect cost?

It cost €1.40 to fill the battery on night rate

That may carry you a variable number of miles depending how you decide to consume that energy.

The cost of electricity per mile is a notional metric as , in current EVs , that very much a function of how you drive the distance.

€ per mins might be a better metric

For example the cost of covering 30 miles in my leaf can be varied by a factor of 4 depending on what time I decide to cover that distance

This is because comparing mpg and battery usage are not valid comparisons , in that mpg is not affected by speed to the same extent that battery capacity is ( at present )