Pro's and con's of Leaf

josip

Deleted User wrote: »

lease a car not an option on a Continental trip ?

How much would it cost to lease for 2 months?
Would there be a mileage restriction?
Can it used in non-EU Balkan countries?
What's the metric equivalent of "mileage"?

Water John

Another thought, any cheap Ryan Air flghts and lease there. LHD and all.
Travel lighter.

What countries are non EU that you pass through?

josip

September1 wrote: »

I think you could change route to use ferries and trains that carry cars more.

We've ferried to north western France some other years, but the UK route saves half a day if we're aiming for northern Italy.

Amiens - Nice would be €83 tolls and around €80 fuel.
Paris - Nice would be €258 - €555 via Autotrain depending on what time we left Paris.
Adjusting our depart time by a few hours could save a few hundred Euro, but wouldn't a few hours would equate to 5/6 recharges timewise?

Sabre Man

josip wrote: »

We would be a reasonably non-Luddite family and would be happy to try new technology if we (rightly or wrongly) considered it to be

1. Environmentally more friendly (even slightly) than our current approach
2. Not financially less attractive than our current approach
3. At least nearly as practical as our current approach

To that end we don't mind splashing out on CAPEX as long as OPEX can in theory be reduced.
Eg. we've installed solar hot water panels and use a solar charger for the rechargeable batteries.


EVs tick #1 and #2 for us, but #3 I've struggled with for a while.

Our car usage is

1. Dublin daily 30kms - could charge in work
2. 1 trip a month of 142km down the country - could charge there and finally seems doable in 1 go with 30kw battery (173km, source US DoE) All other batteries would have required a stop slightly short of destination and no matter what others may think, kids don't need a coffee/rest stop after an hour and 15 minutes in a car at 8 o'clock in the evening.
3. 2 trips a week of 142km to the midlands to work - not sure about the possibility of charging at the customer site, but if it was possible then same as point 2 above.
4. We usually go to Greece in the summer. We take a week off to get there so we're not trying to do it in 30 hours. If anyone here could explain to me how we'd manage that trip in a 30kw Leaf I'd be interested.

• Day 1 - Holyhead to London (480km - 4h) - hotel with no charging point
• Day 2 - London to Amiens (300km -4h) hotel with no charging point
• Day 3 - Amiens to Nice (1200km - 9h) - hotel has charging point
• Day 4 - relax and enjoy Nice
• Day 5 - Nice to Pula (832 km - 7h) Campsite with Electricity
• Day 6 - Enjoy Pula
• Day 7 - Pula to Dubrovnik (700km - 10h) hotel with no charging point
• Day 8 - Dubrovnik to Greece (900km - 11h) Apartment with on street parking for a month

6 weeks later return.

In a few years you should be able to drive to Greece in a Tesla and use superchargers along the route.

josip

Sabre Man wrote: »

In a few years you should be able to drive to Greece in a Tesla and use superchargers along the route.

Just one top up at Cadarache needed.

unkel

josip wrote: »

[*]Day 3 - Amiens to Nice (1200km - 9h)

Averaging 133km/h? Including over a dozen 30 minutes stops for charging?

In a BMW, no problem. Not in a Leaf though

Would you not fly over and rent a car in Greece? Or is yourself / your other half from there and you want to bring over / bring back lots of stuff?

josip

unkel wrote: »

Averaging 133km/h? Including over a dozen 30 minutes stops for charging?

In a BMW, no problem. Not in a Leaf though

Would you not fly over and rent a car in Greece? Or is yourself / your other half from there and you want to bring over / bring back lots of stuff?

Sorry that should have been 11 hours and some days just have to be big driving days. Times given are approx what it takes us in the ICE.
My wife is from there and once a year it's nice to travel with more than 46kg
We see the drive as an opportunity to see and discover parts of Europe rather than an ordeal to go through. So if we were to fly direct we'd miss it.

samih

You have about 3500 km to cover each way. With a 30 kWh leaf with 150 km realistic range that's about 24 +/-5 charges. Of those you can do 6 overnight (one per driving day) and the rest will be around 30 minutes each so this sort of trip would take in ideal conditions about 9..10 extra hours of travel time compared to an ICE.

I big if is whether you can find rapid chargers every time you need one on your proposed route. I would expect you to have to stop on average every 100 kilometers to charge which would increase the number of necessary charges to 35. So 35 hours driving time, 15 hours recharge time. You would also need to drive at 100 km/h max to maximize the range. Then another thing to worry is the effect repeated rapid charges would have on the traction battery temperature at the summer Continent temperatures. Finally the sporadic nature of the chargers means the deviations from the ideal route to find the chargers would add extra kilometers to the already long journey.

It would be an epic trip though.

stesaurus

That travel sounds like my worst nightmare, add in an EV and it would be everyone's idea of hell. It would be a plane for me. How do you even manage to get that much time off from work?

BoatMad

n97 mini wrote: »

Spreadsheets at dawn!

C'mon lads, stop threatening to post them and just post them! I'd like to see them and I'm sure others would too.

I put some of the details out already. I couldn't make the leaf win out over the Peugeot 206. But it was pointed out the leaf is a bigger car so I don't think it's worth putting the whole spreadsheet out it that's the case

BoatMad

s.welstead wrote: »

That travel sounds like my worst nightmare, add in an EV and it would be everyone's idea of hell. It would be a plane for me. How do you even manage to get that much time off from work?

I agree. I did Cherbourg Nice of a few occasions and that's enough for me.

cros13

I did Berlin and back in the i3 the end of last year.

4200km.

Left Dublin on the ulysses to Holyhead. Charged on board.
Charged in the UK at: Chester, Stafford, Birmingham Airport, Warwick, Oxford, Overnighted in London then did Maidstone and Folkestone (only 'cause I wasn't sure Calais was working).

Then on the other side I used: Ghent, FastNed Nth of Eindhoven, FastNed Wst of Arnhem, Osnabrück, Hanover, Magdeburg. Pulled into Berlin just after Midnight.

At the time that was the only available route via the chunnel due to a lack of rapids in southwestern germany and northern france. A better southerly route is now possible via Liepzig. Takes two days in an ICE so I was only a few hours off my usual time in the i3.

Though to be honest you could make the trip way easier by spending a few extra euro and doing:
Dublin Ferry to Chester to Doncaster to Hull-Rotterdam Ferry (overnight / charging via CEE16), cross holland using De Hucht rapid and charge before the border before taking the route as above.

The Hull-Rotterdam ferry is handy. You can head to Amsterdam from Dublin with the same number of rapid charges it takes to get to Cork. Wish it was cheaper though.

sgalvin

Whilst on holiday near Venice recently I saw a Dutch registered Tesla Model S which was about 1,250 km from home.

I thought this was an example of "dedication to the cause" until I looked at the Supercharger map between Venice and the Netherlands. They are everywhere!

The fuel savings down and back covers your food for for a week!

cros13 wrote: »

I did Berlin and back in the i3 the end of last year.

4200km.

Left Dublin on the ulysses to Holyhead. Charged on board.
Charged in the UK at: Chester, Stafford, Birmingham Airport, Warwick, Oxford, Overnighted in London then did Maidstone and Folkestone (only 'cause I wasn't sure Calais was working).

Then on the other side I used: Ghent, FastNed Nth of Eindhoven, FastNed Wst of Arnhem, Osnabrück, Hanover, Magdeburg. Pulled into Berlin just after Midnight.

At the time that was the only available route via the chunnel due to a lack of rapids in southwestern germany and northern france. A better southerly route is now possible via Liepzig. Takes two days in an ICE so I was only a few hours off my usual time in the i3.

Though to be honest you could make the trip way easier by spending a few extra euro and doing:
Dublin Ferry to Chester to Doncaster to Hull-Rotterdam Ferry (overnight / charging via CEE16), cross holland using De Hucht rapid and charge before the border before taking the route as above.

The Hull-Rotterdam ferry is handy. You can head to Amsterdam from Dublin with the same number of rapid charges it takes to get to Cork. Wish it was cheaper though.

josip

s.welstead wrote: »

That travel sounds like my worst nightmare, add in an EV and it would be everyone's idea of hell. It would be a plane for me. How do you even manage to get that much time off from work?

Work are very understanding.
When I'm on the road they wait until the evening time in the hotel/campsite for me to cover all the day's stuff.
When I'm in Greece, they usually leave me alone before 11am for the simple reason that they're not up yet. After that it's open season and I always have to be in phone coverage and within 1 hour of decent data coverage.
Work are very understanding.

stesaurus

josip wrote: »

Work are very understanding.
When I'm on the road they wait until the evening time in the hotel/campsite for me to cover all the day's stuff.
When I'm in Greece, they usually leave me alone before 11am for the simple reason that they're not up yet. After that it's open season and I always have to be in phone coverage and within 1 hour of decent data coverage.
Work are very understanding.

Good situation to be in workwise. Not sure how much work I'd get done when it's mid 30s outside. Although I had a slight taste of it today in Costa del wicklow, had the laptop out in the garden working away!

imfml

Hi all,

Interesting thread, I've just spent most of the evening reading it. I have been interested in buying an EV for a couple of years now, and am going to take the leap with a 162 (I can't wait for Tesla, as much as I'd like to). I plan to keep the car for about 10 years.

I've done my research, and I'm going to upgrade to a 30kW Battery, now that Nissan are offering a €750 discount. Average daily driving is 60km but with approx once monthly drives of 300-400km, infrequent enough that I'm happy to spend 3 x 20 min stops charging on these days. We'll be trading in an 11 year old Focus, so it's a commitment to the EV! We were lucky and got to borrow one for a few days, so know what we are in for.

The Leaf SV meets all our needs, but when I test drove it, I loved everything except the suede fabric! We have 2 dogs, and the leather would be so much easier to keep clean and odour free. It is a lot of money to jump from SV to SVE just for fabric, but it is a long term investment, and I always said I'd treat myself when I replace the current car.

A question not battery related for once!.... Does anyone find suede an unusual fabric!? Is it comfortable and easy to keep clean?

Is the solar panel worth €300, how much does it increase range by on a sunny day trying to do 150-200km in one hop (assuming at 100km/h)?
Any comments on my thoughts above, would appreciate anything I'm not considering being highlighted.
Thanks!

Edit: Could somebody also take a moment to clarify the advantage of the 6KW (32A) Charger please.

Water John

Best wishes IMFML.
The solar panel is a gimmick really. Not worth it.
Others are better on the tech side than me, but a 32Amp 6.6 Kw charger will charge your car in a few hours at home. Standard 3.3 Kw would take twice as long.
The free installation is the 3.3 one. Its fine for its job.

unkel

imfml wrote: »

HIs the solar panel worth €300, how much does it increase range by on a sunny day trying to do 150-200km in one hop (assuming at 100km/h)?

It's a gimmick. It doesn't charge the Leaf's main battery so it doesn't increase the range at all. All it does is trickle charge the aux battery (used for lights, etc.). Handy if you don't use your car for weeks on end sometimes, so your aux battery won't drain. That's about the only positive thing I can think of. Complete waste of your €300.

imfml wrote: »

Could somebody also take a moment to clarify the advantage of the 6KW (32A) Charger please.

It charges your Leaf twice as fast at home compared to a standard charger (so 3-4 hours instead of 6-8 hours). Anyway, when I was in the Nissan dealer a few days ago, they don't sell the Leaf with the 3.3kW charger anymore, all come with the 6.6kW charger

The Solar panel is useless and really only to keep the 12v battery topped up. It's got a normal 12V lead acid which provides power to the electrical systems when the car is turned off however if driving every couple of days this battery won't go flat so the solar panel is a gimmick.

I have the SVE (with the leather I meant) and with a 2 year old and a 5 month old it's proven to be terrific.

If you're sure the range is suitable then go for it but if it were I then I'd wait until 2018 which is only 1.5 years away at this stage, we'll see the first 300-350 km range electrics appear, the cost is pretty much unknown yet but worth holding out for. 10 years is a long time to keep the car so it would be worth it.

The other benefit of course will be the need to charge much less frequently on a long trip and possibly having to queue, especially as electrics get a lot more popular, having 300 km range from your home charge point would be terrific.

Definitely go with the 6.6 kw charger if you do get the car and the 30 kwh battery. Charging from public chargers ( not the fast ones ) twice as fast is brilliant.

Water John

Unkel, as a matter of interest, have they upgraded the free charge point for your house, to match this?
It was only 16 amp.

unkel

I don't own a Leaf / I don't have a free charge point

I meant to say that I have the SVE with leather and having a 2 year old and 5 month old it's been terrific, just give the seats a good wipe and they're as good as new.

Water John

Mad Lad, your just trying to make us poorer folk without the leather seats feel jealous. LOL

Water John

Water John wrote: »

Mad Lad, your just trying to make us poorer folk without the leather seats feel jealous. LOL

lol you just don't like spending money ! :P

Fastpud

imfml wrote: »

Average daily driving is 60km but with approx once monthly drives of 300-400km, infrequent enough that I'm happy to spend 3 x 20 min stops charging on these days.

If you are only doing 60km per day them I would question the value of the 6.6kw charger @ €900 extra. The 3.3kw charger will more than be enough. I have a similar daily commute and only have the 3.3kw charger and have never suffered. Even with the battery totally empty overnight charging has always given me 100% by the morning.
Long journeys will be always serviced by the FCs.

Markcheese

Water John wrote:

Leaf taxi in Cork too. Driver doesn't mind the down time for charge.

Nope, because he goes home for lunch...theres a fast charger near his house which he hogs...

imfml

What is the cost of switching to a day/night rate meter? This is something else I will need to do.

KCross

imfml wrote: »

What is the cost of switching to a day/night rate meter? This is something else I will need to do.

A few threads in this forum cover that... here's one...
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=95461052

BoatMad

I would say that the 6Kw charger is always a benefit, it makes the use of SCPs or hime charging twice as fast

forgot the solar panel, but if going for the SV, DO spend the the €300 on the "cold Pack" option, heated seats, stirring wheel and mirrors, very good value

No cost in switching to night meter, free installation,

unkel

Night meter install is free but the daily standing charge is higher. This means the first 3 or 4 kWh you use every day are effectively charged at the higher day rate. Note: Last time I checked this was a few years ago.

Unless you start using these units for household appliances etc., this increases the charge from 10-100% on the 24kWh Leaf from €2 to about €2.30 - €2.40