Doping in GAA - Jim Gavin not happy with post match drug testing

Chivito550 · 25-04-2016 5:09pm #1

Incredible comments from Jim Gavin. So the GAA is somehow exempt to the anti-doping procedures set down by WADA, implemented by the Irish Sports Council? Athletes in track and field in Ireland have to give samples after a race. They don't complain. They just get on with it. And guess what, almost all of them are amateurs as well. Anti-doping is there to protect the integrity of top level sport, whether that is amateur or professional. Could you imagine the uproar if our Olympians said they didn't want to give a drug sample immediately after their race/event, but would rather give it a few days later or earlier! Simple fact of the matter is, if you have nothing to hide, you shut up and just get on with it. Silly silly shameful comments by Jim Gavin. If the GAA doesn't want to follow the anti-doping procedures that other sports in Ireland follow then they can give back that Irish Sports Council funding, as I believe following the anti-doping procedures is a requirement of funding.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jim-gavin-hits-out-at-drug-tests-straight-after-title-victory-394853.html

Add this to last year's comments by Bernard Brogan about how he opposed the introduction of blood testing (far more accurate than urine testing) makes me believe that they see themselves above other sports and don't feel the need to follow the procedures that others sportspeople in Ireland follow.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/bernard-brogan-gaa-blood-testing-a-step-too-far-372014.html

Having to give a sample post match or race is a pain, but it's what is needed to help protect the integrity of sport. When people give out about being drug tested it only adds suspicion that they have something to hide!

Comments like these are very disappointing to read.

Jayop · 25-04-2016 5:16pm

I don't see them as silly or shameful. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. These lads work so hard for the few moments like winning a final that to be taken away for a drugs test straight after must be pure ****e.

Chivito550 · 25-04-2016 5:21pm

Jayop wrote: »

I don't see them as silly or shameful. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. These lads work so hard for the few moments like winning a final that to be taken away for a drugs test straight after must be pure ****e.

It's the same as somebody working their ass off to win a national title in athletics or boxing or whatever. They have to head off to be drug tested after. I once saw a Dutch girl who came last in an elite triathlon race in Athlone get pulled randomly for a drug test afterwards. She was gutted with her performance, so it would have been the last thing she wanted to deal with. That's what you get for choosing to play high level sport. You don't get a say as to when you are drug tested. It is a non negotiable process, and rightly so. It has to be, for the good of sport.

Bonniedog · 25-04-2016 5:21pm

Jayop wrote: »

I don't see them as silly or shameful. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. These lads work so hard for the few moments like winning a final that to be taken away for a drugs test straight after must be pure ****e.

They could easily test players during training, or the next day. It doesn't have to be on the day of the event.

Jayop · 25-04-2016 5:23pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

It's the same as somebody working their ass off to win a national title in athletics or boxing or whatever. They have to head off to be drug tested after. I once saw a Dutch girl who came last in an elite triathlon race in Athlone get pulled randomly for a drug test afterwards. She was gutted with her performance, so it would have been the last thing she wanted to deal with. That's what you get for choosing to play high level sport. You don't get a say as to when you are drug tested. It is a non negotiable process, and rightly so. It has to be, for the good of sport.

Yeah exactly the same way and they don't need to test them on the day of the event imo.

Charles Babbage · 25-04-2016 5:25pm

These measures are over the top, given that there is no particular evidence of a problem with doping in the GAA. Gavin is perfectly entitled to criticise it. Different sports may have different circumstances. And as for the Irish Sports Council funding this is coming from taxpayers, who expect the GAA to get its fair share in comparison with minority sports that few taxpayers have any interest in.

Chivito550 · 25-04-2016 5:25pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

They could easily test players during training, or the next day. It doesn't have to be on the day of the event.

That is what is called out of competition random testing, which is always unannounced (otherwise it defeats the purpose of it). Post match testing is "in competition testing" which needs to be in place, because if teams knew there was no testing, that opens up a dreadful can of worms.

As I have said above. You don't choose when you pee into the cup, or when to give blood. You do so when you are told. Every other sport that comes under the Irish Sports Council does it, and they get on with it.

Chivito550 · 25-04-2016 5:31pm

Jayop wrote: »

Yeah exactly the same way and they don't need to test them on the day of the event imo.

Imagine showing up to a match or race knowing there was 0% chance you were going to be tested. Because that's the scenario which we would have with your proposal.

As I said, if the GAA don't want to do things properly, fine. Just return all that Irish Sports Council funding.

Bonniedog · 25-04-2016 5:34pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

That is what is called out of competition random testing, which is always unannounced (otherwise it defeats the purpose of it). Post match testing is "in competition testing" which needs to be in place, because if teams knew there was no testing, that opens up a dreadful can of worms.

As I have said above. You don't choose when you pee into the cup, or when to give blood. You do so when you are told. Every other sport that comes under the Irish Sports Council does it, and they get on with it.

Did Kerry or Dublin refuse to allow the players to be tested?

No. Gavin was simply expressing his opinion regarding the timing of the tests. There was another incident last year or year before where they made Clare hurlers changing their training pitch - because of flooding - and not notifying them sound like some sinister ploy!

Bonniedog · 25-04-2016 5:36pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Imagine showing up to a match or race knowing there was 0% chance you were going to be tested. Because that's the scenario which we would have with your proposal.

As I said, if the GAA don't want to do things properly, fine. Just return all that Irish Sports Council funding.

Do what things properly?

There is no other sport in the country that would be capable of organising an event of the scale of yesterday. Perhaps that is what is really bothering you?

Birdie Num Num · 25-04-2016 5:36pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

These measures are over the top, given that there is no particular evidence of a problem with doping in the GAA. Gavin is perfectly entitled to criticise it. Different sports may have different circumstances. And as for the Irish Sports Council funding this is coming from taxpayers, who expect the GAA to get its fair share in comparison with minority sports that few taxpayers have any interest in.

But surely fair share means fair procedures all round and the same rules apply. Testing is fairly new in GAA so it's likely to be greeted with opposition to procedures and probably not understood as to how very inconvenient it can be. Galvin's comments are Naive at best. Wait till players have to give details of their movements in advance of competitions or is that likely to happen, or does it already happen in GAA?

Charles Babbage · 25-04-2016 5:37pm

This intrusive testing is a can of worms. Eventually someone will just refuse and his team mates will support him.

Jayop · 25-04-2016 5:39pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Imagine showing up to a match or race knowing there was 0% chance you were going to be tested. Because that's the scenario which we would have with your proposal.

As I said, if the GAA don't want to do things properly, fine. Just return all that Irish Sports Council funding.

Why are you obsessing with the GAA? I'm saying that post match/race testing in any sport, especially amateur sports and especially finals is OTT in my opinion. The tests could easily have been done the day before or after and could have been just as effective.

Birdie Num Num · 25-04-2016 5:46pm

Jayop wrote: »

Why are you obsessing with the GAA? I'm saying that post match/race testing in any sport, especially amateur sports and especially finals is OTT in my opinion. The tests could easily have been done the day before or after and could have been just as effective.

I understand what you are saying but if you are to get drugs out of sport I don't think you can tailor testing to suit the individuals who are being tested.

Jayop · 25-04-2016 5:51pm

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

I understand what you are saying but if you are to get drugs out of sport I don't think you can tailor testing to suit the individuals who are being tested.

Who's saying do it to suit the individuals?

It's quite simple really. Top level GAA players play a maximum of 3 big finals a year, most play none. That's 3 days a year where you can leave them alone win lose or draw.

These guys are giving their time for nothing so they should be accommodated as much as possible.

corny · 25-04-2016 5:51pm

I don't agree with Gavin but the hysterical, emotive language of the OP is laughable imo.

Chivito550 wrote: »

Imagine showing up to a match or race knowing there was 0% chance you were going to be tested. Because that's the scenario which we would have with your proposal.

As I said, if the GAA don't want to do things properly, fine. Just return all that Irish Sports Council funding.

Aaaand thats the reason.

hardCopy · 25-04-2016 5:54pm

Ridiculous comments by Gavin. Any elite athlete who wants to keep their sport clean should be happy to pee in the cup.

Yes it's a pain waiting to re-hydrate but them's the breaks.

Birdie Num Num · 25-04-2016 5:54pm

Jayop wrote: »

Who's saying do it to suit the individuals?

It's quite simple really. Top level GAA players play a maximum of 3 big finals a year, most play none. That's 3 days a year where you can leave them alone win lose or draw.

These guys are giving their time for nothing so they should be accommodated as much as possible.

But that's no different to other sports. I think it's just a lack of knowledge about drugs in sport and how testing works that is the issue here.

Bonniedog · 25-04-2016 5:55pm

corny wrote: »

I don't agree with Gavin but the hysterical, emotive language of the OP is laughable imo.

Aaaand thats the reason.

That's usually the point of the exercise!

Jayop · 25-04-2016 5:57pm

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

But that's no different to other sports. I think it's just a lack of knowledge about drugs in sport and how testing works that is the issue here.

But I've said a few times I'm not limiting that to GAA. The same thing should apply in the immediate aftermath of the biggest events in a year. If they want to test someone test them the day before or after. Show some respect to the athletes.

Birdie Num Num · 25-04-2016 6:05pm

Jayop wrote: »

But I've said a few times I'm not limiting that to GAA. The same thing should apply in the immediate aftermath of the biggest events in a year. If they want to test someone test them the day before or after. Show some respect to the athletes.

I'm not saying you are. I am no expert in drug testing. Testing is carried out by testers within the Irish Sports Council. That can be at any time out of competition which is much more inconvenient and/or it can be straight after competition which is probably for good reason.

Jayop · 25-04-2016 6:13pm

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

I'm not saying you are. I am no expert in drug testing. Testing is carried out by testers within the Irish Sports Council. That can be at any time out of competition which is much more inconvenient and/or it can be straight after competition which is probably for good reason.

Again I've no problem with straight after an event, just not a big final. They should have some respect for the athletes.

ronnie085 · 25-04-2016 6:16pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Chivito550 wrote: »

Imagine showing up to a match or race knowing there was 0% chance you were going to be tested. Because that's the scenario whic

Do what things properly?

There is no other sport in the country that would be capable of organising an event of the scale of yesterday. Perhaps that is what is really bothering you?

Love the way the GAA are the only organisation who can do anything properly, big soccer and rugby matches all year round, we had the Tour De France which is a different scale altogether, plus the Dublin marathon which must be a logistical nightmare going without a hitch every year, that's only off the top of my head. As for drug testing, I doubt the players get 6am calls from the testers like other athletes get, don't see the problem with peeing in a cup after a match and it's not as if it's every player either.

BPKS · 25-04-2016 6:17pm

Is it a blood sample or urine sample they take?
If it's the latter, then surely that could be done as soon as the team arrives at the stadium rather than ask dehydrated athletes to pee into a cup after a game.

Chivito550 · 25-04-2016 6:18pm

Jayop wrote: »

Again I've no problem with straight after an event, just not a big final. They should have some respect for the athletes.

So Sonia O'Sullivan shouldn't have been tested after her big Olympic, World and European finals down the years. I'm 100% certain she would completely disagree with you.

dastardly00 · 25-04-2016 6:19pm

Jayop wrote: »

Again I've no problem with straight after an event, just not a big final. They should have some respect for the athletes.

Hmmmm I don't think you understand how some PEDs work and the effect of your suggestion of no testing allowed after a big final....

Jayop · 25-04-2016 6:19pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

So Sonia O'Sullivan shouldn't have been tested after her big Olympic, World and European finals down the years. I'm 100% certain she would completely disagree with you.

Maybe she would and I'd feel she's entirely entitled to her opinion just as I feel Jim Gavin is entitled to his without being abused like he was in the OP.

Jayop · 25-04-2016 6:20pm

dastardly00 wrote: »

Hmmmm I don't think you understand how some PEDs work and the effect of your suggestion of no testing allowed after a big final....

Unless they are untraceable 24 hours later then I don't see how it's relevant how they actually work.

Birdie Num Num · 25-04-2016 6:20pm

Jayop wrote: »

Again I've no problem with straight after an event, just not a big final. They should have some respect for the athletes.

But thats the way it is and otherwise you are creating possible loopholes. I have seen a friend taken aside for testing after one of their best ever achievements. It's an inconvenience yes but obviously has to be the way. Different drugs, stimulants have different effects on performances, so obviously there needs to be broad procedures for testing.

Chivito550 · 25-04-2016 6:26pm

Jayop wrote: »

Maybe she would and I'd feel she's entirely entitled to her opinion just as I feel Jim Gavin is entitled to his without being abused like he was in the OP.

Could you imagine no drug testing in any of the big finals at the Olympics, Champions League, World Cup etc. It would become a massive free for all for those willing to dope. How does that protect clean athletes? It doesn't. It's a truly ludicrous suggestion.

Choochtown · 25-04-2016 6:36pm

The testing must be done immediately after the match.

Imagine a doper being asked for a test the night before ...
"We were keeping it from the media but I'm injured and won't be playing tomorrow"

Imagine a doper being asked for a test the day after.
"I've just retired"