Doping in GAA - Jim Gavin not happy with post match drug testing

Chivito550

Incredible comments from Jim Gavin. So the GAA is somehow exempt to the anti-doping procedures set down by WADA, implemented by the Irish Sports Council? Athletes in track and field in Ireland have to give samples after a race. They don't complain. They just get on with it. And guess what, almost all of them are amateurs as well. Anti-doping is there to protect the integrity of top level sport, whether that is amateur or professional. Could you imagine the uproar if our Olympians said they didn't want to give a drug sample immediately after their race/event, but would rather give it a few days later or earlier! Simple fact of the matter is, if you have nothing to hide, you shut up and just get on with it. Silly silly shameful comments by Jim Gavin. If the GAA doesn't want to follow the anti-doping procedures that other sports in Ireland follow then they can give back that Irish Sports Council funding, as I believe following the anti-doping procedures is a requirement of funding.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jim-gavin-hits-out-at-drug-tests-straight-after-title-victory-394853.html

Add this to last year's comments by Bernard Brogan about how he opposed the introduction of blood testing (far more accurate than urine testing) makes me believe that they see themselves above other sports and don't feel the need to follow the procedures that others sportspeople in Ireland follow.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/bernard-brogan-gaa-blood-testing-a-step-too-far-372014.html

Having to give a sample post match or race is a pain, but it's what is needed to help protect the integrity of sport. When people give out about being drug tested it only adds suspicion that they have something to hide!

Comments like these are very disappointing to read.

Jayop

I don't see them as silly or shameful. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. These lads work so hard for the few moments like winning a final that to be taken away for a drugs test straight after must be pure ****e.

Chivito550

Jayop wrote: »

I don't see them as silly or shameful. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. These lads work so hard for the few moments like winning a final that to be taken away for a drugs test straight after must be pure ****e.

It's the same as somebody working their ass off to win a national title in athletics or boxing or whatever. They have to head off to be drug tested after. I once saw a Dutch girl who came last in an elite triathlon race in Athlone get pulled randomly for a drug test afterwards. She was gutted with her performance, so it would have been the last thing she wanted to deal with. That's what you get for choosing to play high level sport. You don't get a say as to when you are drug tested. It is a non negotiable process, and rightly so. It has to be, for the good of sport.

Bonniedog

Jayop wrote: »

I don't see them as silly or shameful. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. These lads work so hard for the few moments like winning a final that to be taken away for a drugs test straight after must be pure ****e.

They could easily test players during training, or the next day. It doesn't have to be on the day of the event.

Jayop

Chivito550 wrote: »

It's the same as somebody working their ass off to win a national title in athletics or boxing or whatever. They have to head off to be drug tested after. I once saw a Dutch girl who came last in an elite triathlon race in Athlone get pulled randomly for a drug test afterwards. She was gutted with her performance, so it would have been the last thing she wanted to deal with. That's what you get for choosing to play high level sport. You don't get a say as to when you are drug tested. It is a non negotiable process, and rightly so. It has to be, for the good of sport.

Yeah exactly the same way and they don't need to test them on the day of the event imo.

Charles Babbage

These measures are over the top, given that there is no particular evidence of a problem with doping in the GAA. Gavin is perfectly entitled to criticise it. Different sports may have different circumstances. And as for the Irish Sports Council funding this is coming from taxpayers, who expect the GAA to get its fair share in comparison with minority sports that few taxpayers have any interest in.

Chivito550

Bonniedog wrote: »

They could easily test players during training, or the next day. It doesn't have to be on the day of the event.

That is what is called out of competition random testing, which is always unannounced (otherwise it defeats the purpose of it). Post match testing is "in competition testing" which needs to be in place, because if teams knew there was no testing, that opens up a dreadful can of worms.

As I have said above. You don't choose when you pee into the cup, or when to give blood. You do so when you are told. Every other sport that comes under the Irish Sports Council does it, and they get on with it.

Chivito550

Jayop wrote: »

Yeah exactly the same way and they don't need to test them on the day of the event imo.

Imagine showing up to a match or race knowing there was 0% chance you were going to be tested. Because that's the scenario which we would have with your proposal.

As I said, if the GAA don't want to do things properly, fine. Just return all that Irish Sports Council funding.

Bonniedog

Chivito550 wrote: »

That is what is called out of competition random testing, which is always unannounced (otherwise it defeats the purpose of it). Post match testing is "in competition testing" which needs to be in place, because if teams knew there was no testing, that opens up a dreadful can of worms.

As I have said above. You don't choose when you pee into the cup, or when to give blood. You do so when you are told. Every other sport that comes under the Irish Sports Council does it, and they get on with it.

Did Kerry or Dublin refuse to allow the players to be tested?

No. Gavin was simply expressing his opinion regarding the timing of the tests. There was another incident last year or year before where they made Clare hurlers changing their training pitch - because of flooding - and not notifying them sound like some sinister ploy!

Bonniedog

Chivito550 wrote: »

Imagine showing up to a match or race knowing there was 0% chance you were going to be tested. Because that's the scenario which we would have with your proposal.

As I said, if the GAA don't want to do things properly, fine. Just return all that Irish Sports Council funding.

Do what things properly?

There is no other sport in the country that would be capable of organising an event of the scale of yesterday. Perhaps that is what is really bothering you?

Birdie Num Num

Charles Babbage wrote: »

These measures are over the top, given that there is no particular evidence of a problem with doping in the GAA. Gavin is perfectly entitled to criticise it. Different sports may have different circumstances. And as for the Irish Sports Council funding this is coming from taxpayers, who expect the GAA to get its fair share in comparison with minority sports that few taxpayers have any interest in.

But surely fair share means fair procedures all round and the same rules apply. Testing is fairly new in GAA so it's likely to be greeted with opposition to procedures and probably not understood as to how very inconvenient it can be. Galvin's comments are Naive at best. Wait till players have to give details of their movements in advance of competitions or is that likely to happen, or does it already happen in GAA?

Charles Babbage

This intrusive testing is a can of worms. Eventually someone will just refuse and his team mates will support him.

Jayop

Chivito550 wrote: »

Imagine showing up to a match or race knowing there was 0% chance you were going to be tested. Because that's the scenario which we would have with your proposal.

As I said, if the GAA don't want to do things properly, fine. Just return all that Irish Sports Council funding.

Why are you obsessing with the GAA? I'm saying that post match/race testing in any sport, especially amateur sports and especially finals is OTT in my opinion. The tests could easily have been done the day before or after and could have been just as effective.

Birdie Num Num

Jayop wrote: »

Why are you obsessing with the GAA? I'm saying that post match/race testing in any sport, especially amateur sports and especially finals is OTT in my opinion. The tests could easily have been done the day before or after and could have been just as effective.

I understand what you are saying but if you are to get drugs out of sport I don't think you can tailor testing to suit the individuals who are being tested.

Jayop

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

I understand what you are saying but if you are to get drugs out of sport I don't think you can tailor testing to suit the individuals who are being tested.

Who's saying do it to suit the individuals?

It's quite simple really. Top level GAA players play a maximum of 3 big finals a year, most play none. That's 3 days a year where you can leave them alone win lose or draw.

These guys are giving their time for nothing so they should be accommodated as much as possible.

corny

I don't agree with Gavin but the hysterical, emotive language of the OP is laughable imo.

Chivito550 wrote: »

Imagine showing up to a match or race knowing there was 0% chance you were going to be tested. Because that's the scenario which we would have with your proposal.

As I said, if the GAA don't want to do things properly, fine. Just return all that Irish Sports Council funding.

Aaaand thats the reason.

hardCopy

Ridiculous comments by Gavin. Any elite athlete who wants to keep their sport clean should be happy to pee in the cup.

Yes it's a pain waiting to re-hydrate but them's the breaks.

Birdie Num Num

Jayop wrote: »

Who's saying do it to suit the individuals?

It's quite simple really. Top level GAA players play a maximum of 3 big finals a year, most play none. That's 3 days a year where you can leave them alone win lose or draw.

These guys are giving their time for nothing so they should be accommodated as much as possible.

But that's no different to other sports. I think it's just a lack of knowledge about drugs in sport and how testing works that is the issue here.

Bonniedog

corny wrote: »

I don't agree with Gavin but the hysterical, emotive language of the OP is laughable imo.



Aaaand thats the reason.

That's usually the point of the exercise!

Jayop

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

But that's no different to other sports. I think it's just a lack of knowledge about drugs in sport and how testing works that is the issue here.

But I've said a few times I'm not limiting that to GAA. The same thing should apply in the immediate aftermath of the biggest events in a year. If they want to test someone test them the day before or after. Show some respect to the athletes.

Birdie Num Num

Jayop wrote: »

But I've said a few times I'm not limiting that to GAA. The same thing should apply in the immediate aftermath of the biggest events in a year. If they want to test someone test them the day before or after. Show some respect to the athletes.

I'm not saying you are. I am no expert in drug testing. Testing is carried out by testers within the Irish Sports Council. That can be at any time out of competition which is much more inconvenient and/or it can be straight after competition which is probably for good reason.

Jayop

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

I'm not saying you are. I am no expert in drug testing. Testing is carried out by testers within the Irish Sports Council. That can be at any time out of competition which is much more inconvenient and/or it can be straight after competition which is probably for good reason.

Again I've no problem with straight after an event, just not a big final. They should have some respect for the athletes.

ronnie085

Bonniedog wrote: »

Chivito550 wrote: »

Imagine showing up to a match or race knowing there was 0% chance you were going to be tested. Because that's the scenario whic


Do what things properly?

There is no other sport in the country that would be capable of organising an event of the scale of yesterday. Perhaps that is what is really bothering you?

Love the way the GAA are the only organisation who can do anything properly, big soccer and rugby matches all year round, we had the Tour De France which is a different scale altogether, plus the Dublin marathon which must be a logistical nightmare going without a hitch every year, that's only off the top of my head. As for drug testing, I doubt the players get 6am calls from the testers like other athletes get, don't see the problem with peeing in a cup after a match and it's not as if it's every player either.

BPKS

Is it a blood sample or urine sample they take?
If it's the latter, then surely that could be done as soon as the team arrives at the stadium rather than ask dehydrated athletes to pee into a cup after a game.

Chivito550

Jayop wrote: »

Again I've no problem with straight after an event, just not a big final. They should have some respect for the athletes.

So Sonia O'Sullivan shouldn't have been tested after her big Olympic, World and European finals down the years. I'm 100% certain she would completely disagree with you.

dastardly00

Jayop wrote: »

Again I've no problem with straight after an event, just not a big final. They should have some respect for the athletes.

Hmmmm I don't think you understand how some PEDs work and the effect of your suggestion of no testing allowed after a big final....

Jayop

Chivito550 wrote: »

So Sonia O'Sullivan shouldn't have been tested after her big Olympic, World and European finals down the years. I'm 100% certain she would completely disagree with you.

Maybe she would and I'd feel she's entirely entitled to her opinion just as I feel Jim Gavin is entitled to his without being abused like he was in the OP.

Jayop

dastardly00 wrote: »

Hmmmm I don't think you understand how some PEDs work and the effect of your suggestion of no testing allowed after a big final....

Unless they are untraceable 24 hours later then I don't see how it's relevant how they actually work.

Birdie Num Num

Jayop wrote: »

Again I've no problem with straight after an event, just not a big final. They should have some respect for the athletes.

But thats the way it is and otherwise you are creating possible loopholes. I have seen a friend taken aside for testing after one of their best ever achievements. It's an inconvenience yes but obviously has to be the way. Different drugs, stimulants have different effects on performances, so obviously there needs to be broad procedures for testing.

Chivito550

Jayop wrote: »

Maybe she would and I'd feel she's entirely entitled to her opinion just as I feel Jim Gavin is entitled to his without being abused like he was in the OP.

Could you imagine no drug testing in any of the big finals at the Olympics, Champions League, World Cup etc. It would become a massive free for all for those willing to dope. How does that protect clean athletes? It doesn't. It's a truly ludicrous suggestion.

Choochtown

The testing must be done immediately after the match.

Imagine a doper being asked for a test the night before ...
"We were keeping it from the media but I'm injured and won't be playing tomorrow"

Imagine a doper being asked for a test the day after.
"I've just retired"

Jayop

Chivito550 wrote: »

Could you imagine no drug testing in any of the big finals at the Olympics, Champions League, World Cup etc. It would become a massive free for all for those willing to dope. How does that protect clean athletes? It doesn't. It's a truly ludicrous suggestion.

Erm did I say that they shouldn't test thoughout events? No I said int he immediate aftermath of finals.

So basically the Olympics lasts for about a month or whatever. I'm suggesting that the 100m sprinters don't get tested for one afternoon straight after the race. Test them that morning, test them the day before, the day after whatever, just not immediately after the finals. Is this somehow hard for you to understand?

Honestly though I'd be less concerned about the feeling of professional athletes because for them testing is part of their job, for amateurs it's not.

The Lost Sheep

Chivito550 wrote: »

Incredible comments from Jim Gavin. So the GAA is somehow exempt to the anti-doping procedures set down by WADA, implemented by the Irish Sports Council? Athletes in track and field in Ireland have to give samples after a race. They don't complain. They just get on with it. And guess what, almost all of them are amateurs as well. Anti-doping is there to protect the integrity of top level sport, whether that is amateur or professional. Could you imagine the uproar if our Olympians said they didn't want to give a drug sample immediately after their race/event, but would rather give it a few days later or earlier! Simple fact of the matter is, if you have nothing to hide, you shut up and just get on with it. Silly silly shameful comments by Jim Gavin. If the GAA doesn't want to follow the anti-doping procedures that other sports in Ireland follow then they can give back that Irish Sports Council funding, as I believe following the anti-doping procedures is a requirement of funding.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jim-gavin-hits-out-at-drug-tests-straight-after-title-victory-394853.html

Add this to last year's comments by Bernard Brogan about how he opposed the introduction of blood testing (far more accurate than urine testing) makes me believe that they see themselves above other sports and don't feel the need to follow the procedures that others sportspeople in Ireland follow.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/bernard-brogan-gaa-blood-testing-a-step-too-far-372014.html

Having to give a sample post match or race is a pain, but it's what is needed to help protect the integrity of sport. When people give out about being drug tested it only adds suspicion that they have something to hide!

Comments like these are very disappointing to read.

Totally agree. Very disappointing comments. Having to give a sample day or two after is nonsense and sure whats the point. If a player was guilty they could certainly clear any substance taken out of their system.

Jayop wrote: »

I don't see them as silly or shameful. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. These lads work so hard for the few moments like winning a final that to be taken away for a drugs test straight after must be pure ****e.

It may be ****e for the players but better for the tests to be there then just potentially allow any player get away with taking performance enhancing substances

Bonniedog wrote: »

They could easily test players during training, or the next day. It doesn't have to be on the day of the event.

That allows potential manipulation and players could clear their system of any performance enhancing substances. It does have to be the day of the event for specific testing like that. There can also be random testing on other days but you need on the day spot testing of players.

Jayop wrote: »

Why are you obsessing with the GAA? I'm saying that post match/race testing in any sport, especially amateur sports and especially finals is OTT in my opinion. The tests could easily have been done the day before or after and could have been just as effective.

It isn't OTT at all. What's the point of doing a test the day before or after a final and then the player could simply either take substance or clear their system of any illegal substance varying on whether test was before/after game?

Jayop wrote: »

Who's saying do it to suit the individuals?

It's quite simple really. Top level GAA players play a maximum of 3 big finals a year, most play none. That's 3 days a year where you can leave them alone win lose or draw.

These guys are giving their time for nothing so they should be accommodated as much as possible.

That is in no way a good enough excuse for top level athletes not to be tested

Jayop wrote: »

But I've said a few times I'm not limiting that to GAA. The same thing should apply in the immediate aftermath of the biggest events in a year. If they want to test someone test them the day before or after. Show some respect to the athletes.

What about showing respect for all the clean athletes that we have testing in place to catch any cheats?

Jayop

Choochtown wrote: »

The testing must be done immediately after the match.

Imagine a doper being asked for a test the night before ...
"We were keeping it from the media but I'm injured and won't be playing tomorrow"

Imagine a doper being asked for a test the day after.
"I've just retired"

Scenario 1 - Test them anyway.
Scenario 2 - make it against the rules for them to say they're retired and strip them of the title they just won.

Birdie Num Num

Jayop wrote: »

Erm did I say that they shouldn't test thoughout events? No I said int he immediate aftermath of finals.

So basically the Olympics lasts for about a month or whatever. I'm suggesting that the 100m sprinters don't get tested for one afternoon straight after the race. Test them that morning, test them the day before, the day after whatever, just not immediately after the finals. Is this somehow hard for you to understand?

Honestly though I'd be less concerned about the feeling of professional athletes because for them testing is part of their job, for amateurs it's not.

I think you are either stringing this thread along or you have a poor understanding of drugs in sport and who is a professional athlete / sports person and who is an amateur. In boxing for example both an amateur and professional sport, two different sports some would argue, I would guess that testing is virtually non existent in the professional game as opposed to the amateur sport.

Jayop

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

I think you are either stringing this thread along or you have a poor understanding of drugs in sport and who is a professional athlete / sports person and who is an amateur. In boxing for example both an amateur and professional sport, two different sports some would argue, I would guess that testing is virtually non existent in the professional game as opposed to the amateur sport.

Think what you like. I've stated a pretty simple opinion that I've yet to hear a good reason as to why it can't work apart from smart arse accusations that I don't understand this or that without actually any explanation as to why I'm wrong.

The reference to professional athletes was because the post I quoted has said..."Olympics, Champions League, World Cup".

Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a great deal of professionals participating in the World Cup and Champions League?


Perhaps if you looked for the context in something rather than assume you're much smarter and all knowing than someone then you'd not look so pompous.

Charles Babbage

Choochtown wrote: »

Imagine a doper being asked for a test the day after.
"I've just retired"

That's just silly, a player could declare themselves retired immediately after a game too if they wished.

One day one will, and will be persuaded to return subsequently.

ThisRegard

Charles Babbage wrote: »

This intrusive testing is a can of worms. Eventually someone will just refuse and his team mates will support him.

And they all should be prevented playing.

ProudDUB

Some ridiculous comments on here. Jim Gavin is NOT against drug testing. He simply questioned the timing of the players having to give a sample.

ronnie085

ProudDUB wrote: »

Some ridiculous comments on here. Jim Gavin is NOT against drug testing. He simply questioned the timing of the players having to give a sample.

4 players out of probably 40 is a small price to pay, the alternative would be a free for all on match day and then clear the system out before the testers call whenever. Not a deterrent at all and if anything dangerous.

downthemiddle

Jayop wrote: »

Erm did I say that they shouldn't test thoughout events? No I said int he immediate aftermath of finals.

So basically the Olympics lasts for about a month or whatever. I'm suggesting that the 100m sprinters don't get tested for one afternoon straight after the race. Test them that morning, test them the day before, the day after whatever, just not immediately after the finals. Is this somehow hard for you to understand?

Honestly though I'd be less concerned about the feeling of professional athletes because for them testing is part of their job, for amateurs it's not.

You show a breath taking lack of knowledge on the subject of PEDs, somewhat similar to Jim Gavin. Fortunately for you drug testing is not an issue for you. However it is an issue for Jim Gavin and his players. He has a responsibility to fully inform himself on the subject and not make statements which, at best, are misinformed.
An inter county player tested positive last year. If anyone thinks he is the only bad apple they need to take their head out of the sand. PEDs are now easily accessible to the general public. Players at the top of their sport, be they amateur or professional, tend to be driven individuals who are always looking for an extra edge.
Drug testing is essential in sport and should be welcomed by any right thinking individual. The ISC have a drug testing programme that we can be proud of and Irish sport in general is clean. People like Jim Gavin, in a position of responsibility, should welcome all efforts to keep his sport relatively drug free.

Jayop

downthemiddle wrote: »

You show a breath taking lack of knowledge on the subject of PEDs, somewhat similar to Jim Gavin. Fortunately for you drug testing is not an issue for you. However it is an issue for Jim Gavin and his players. He has a responsibility to fully inform himself on the subject and not make statements which, at best, are misinformed.
An inter county player tested positive last year. If anyone thinks he is the only bad apple they need to take their head out of the sand. PEDs are now easily accessible to the general public. Players at the top of their sport, be they amateur or professional, tend to be driven individuals who are always looking for an extra edge.
Drug testing is essential in sport and should be welcomed by any right thinking individual. The ISC have a drug testing programme that we can be proud of and Irish sport in general is clean. People like Jim Gavin, in a position of responsibility, should welcome all efforts to keep his sport relatively drug free.

Wonderful. Yet another post telling me how little I know whilst not correcting a single thing I said. Is there any single reason that the testing couldn't be done either in the morning of the game or the following morning?

I've said already that I don't know any reason why and other than be told be several pretty obnoxious sounding posts that I was clueless and didn't know anything about PED's or the difference between a professional and an amateur (which was the most idiotic post in here) they still haven't told me why I'm wrong.

downthemiddle

Jayop wrote: »

Wonderful. Yet another post telling me how little I know whilst not correcting a single thing I said. Is there any single reason that the testing couldn't be done either in the morning of the game or the following morning?

I've said already that I don't know any reason why and other than be told be several pretty obnoxious sounding posts that I was clueless and didn't know anything about PED's or the difference between a professional and an amateur (which was the most idiotic post in here) they still haven't told me why I'm wrong.

As I said it's not your responsibility to know but it is Jim Gavin's.
A little research on micro dosing will open your eyes.

A very basic explanation

http://www.thehindu.com/sport/other-sports/microdosing-the-new-trend-in-sports-doping/article3710793.ece

Charles Babbage

ThisRegard wrote: »

And they all should be prevented playing.

So some of this crap goes on at the semi final and the team refues to play, what are they going to do cancel the All ireland final and several million Euro in Revenue. All for doping procedures designed for drug infested sports like Athletics and run by the Irish Sports Council whose aim is to promote those drug infested sports? Yeah, right.

STB.

GAA is an amateur sport.

There is no financial incentive to dope.

These players give up there time and skill for the love of the game and the pride in the jersey. Many of them cant walk in their mid to late 30's through damage done to knees etc from their dedication for their County.

And Finally, change the title, its a deliberate sensational tabloid banner headline that misrepresents what Jim Gavin actually said.
It was the timing that annoyed him. There was a Laochra show on after the "show" that the players put on.

A bit of perspective please.

downthemiddle

Charles Babbage wrote: »

So some of this crap goes on at the semi final and the team refues to play, what are they going to do cancel the All ireland final and several million Euro in Revenue. All for doping procedures designed for drug infested sports like Athletics and run by the Irish Sports Council whose aim is to promote those drug infested sports? Yeah, right.

Surely if an inter county player has nothing to hide they would have no reason to refuse a test.
Like it or not the GAA have signed up to the ISC drugs testing programme. As a result every GAA player is responsible for any substance they put into their body. They are also obliged to co operate with the testers. Failure to do so is automatically regarded as a positive test and a ban is then automatic.

Dyr

So we have an athletics afficiendo bellyaching about the GAA? Jesus there's something I've absolutely never seen before, I am truly shocked

downthemiddle

Bambi wrote: »

So we have an athletics afficiendo bellyaching about the GAA? Jesus there's something I've absolutely never seen before, I am truly shocked

An equally we have GAA supporters circling the wagons.
GAA is relatively drugs free, as is Irish athletics. The ISC help it remain that way with their drug testing programme. Any genuine fan should welcome testing, there is nothing to fear if you are clean.

ThisRegard

Charles Babbage wrote: »

So some of this crap goes on at the semi final and the team refues to play, what are they going to do cancel the All ireland final and several million Euro in Revenue. All for doping procedures designed for drug infested sports like Athletics and run by the Irish Sports Council whose aim is to promote those drug infested sports? Yeah, right.

Keep your head in the sand so if you believe that GAA is pure as the driven snow.

Jayop

But unlike your insinuations to the contrary no-one is saying they don't welcome testing, just that the timing on certain occasions could take other things into account. Sorry now if we're not as well versed on the in's and out's of PED's as you athletics boys (good reason for that eh??) but I've yet to have a single person explain why they couldn't do the test just before the game or the following morning. I was insulted and given a link to the Hindu Times but I think I'd prefer something I could hang my hat on.

ThisRegard

STB. wrote: »

GAA is an amateur sport.

There is no financial incentive to dope.
.........
A bit of perspective please.

People don't just dope or cheat for financial gain ffs. How naive are people?