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Connacht vs Munster, Sat 16th April 19.15, Sportsground. Sky Sports 5/TG4

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    #632
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,961 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    What does the ROG say?

    He said "It's disgraceful how Connacht were allowed to import a front row like that. I wish Munster had signed them :( Just got off the phone with Ligind Hayes and he is fuming at Cronin's performance. He actually broke his tractor throwing it at the TV."


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    #633
    b.gud
    Registered Users Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭b.gud


    fatherteddreamsreality2.gif


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    #634
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    connemara man wrote: »
    Murray Kinsella also thinks Cronin instigated the collapse

    Have you a link please?


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    #635
    connemara man
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 6,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭connemara man


    jm08 wrote: »
    Have you a link please?

    https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/722882751205097472


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    #636
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    Did you ever read Neil Treacy's scrum analysis on The 42? Unlike Eddie he actually understands the scrum. What Bealham is doing is not unusual, it's locking his body in position so that the opposing loosehead can't get any traction against him. What Eddie is saying is nonsense. Bealham is supported by his hooker, his bind on Cronin and the force coming from his legs and the tighthead lock. It's a very stable position and usually only adopted by very strong scrummagers like Bealham. Mike Ross and Cian Healy do it too. But Bealham is so strong in that position that he actually has forced Cronin in on his hooker. Cronin thought his only option was try and pull Bealham down and hope the ref blames someone else because if he doesn't, he's gone anyway.

    But Eddie is a backs coach, so he'd know all about scrummaging. :rolleyes:

    I can't find any scrum analysis on the 42. Murray Kinsella mentions it in passing, but no analysis of the scrum. Do you have a link please to what you are talking about?


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    #637
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    connemara man wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/722882751205097472


    Murray Kinsella ‏@Murray_Kinsella 2h2 hours ago
    @PadraigKelly Bealham's feet were very far back in fairness, so lacking balance, but though it was a tug downwards.


    Padraig Kelly ‏@PadraigKelly 2h2 hours ago
    Murray_Kinsella[/URL] I felt he was locking out which is a dangerous tactic as it leaves you prone


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    #638
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    Murray Kinsella ‏@Murray_Kinsella 2h2 hours ago
    @PadraigKelly Bealham's feet were very far back in fairness, so lacking balance, but though it was a tug downwards.


    Padraig Kelly ‏@PadraigKelly 2h2 hours ago
    Murray_Kinsella[/URL] I felt he was locking out which is a dangerous tactic as it leaves you prone

    So Murray thought Cronin was illegal


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    #639
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    So Murray thought Cronin was illegal

    Both were illegal. Both should have been carded.


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    #640
    connemara man
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 6,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭connemara man


    jm08 wrote: »
    Both were illegal. Both should have been carded.

    So Murray thought Cronin was more illegal.


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    #641
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    Both were illegal. Both should have been carded.

    No, Cronin was illegal. There's nothing illegal about what Bealham did.


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    #642
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    No, Cronin was illegal. There's nothing illegal about what Bealham did.

    Its dangerous what he was doing.


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    #643
    connemara man
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 6,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭connemara man


    jm08 wrote: »
    Its dangerous what he was doing.

    so Cronin was rightly penalised.....


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    #644
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    Its dangerous what he was doing.

    It's certainly dangerous when your opponent is pulling you down, but then there's very little that isn't.


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    #645
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    connemara man wrote: »
    so Cronin was rightly penalised.....


    Munster were penalised (poor ref decision) because Bealham should have been carded.

    The ref should have sorted it by resetting the scrum.


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    #646
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    It's certainly dangerous when your opponent is pulling you down, but then there's very little that isn't.

    Have you watched Eddie's detailed analysis?


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    #647
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    Have you watched Eddie's detailed analysis?

    Yes


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    #648
    connemara man
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 6,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭connemara man


    jm08 wrote: »
    Have you watched Eddie's detailed analysis?

    you mean the analysis of only one team in the scrum?


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    #649
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Yes

    And why do you disagree with him?


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    #650
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    connemara man wrote: »
    you mean the analysis of only one team in the scrum?

    by the Current Connacht Heineken rugby club ambassador?


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    #651
    connemara man
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 6,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭connemara man


    jm08 wrote: »
    by the Current Connacht Heineken rugby club ambassador?

    By Eddie, he solely focuses on Bealham nothing to say about Cronins actions


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    #652
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    And why do you disagree with him?

    You yourself agree Cronin deserved a card.

    Locking out the scrum is not illegal. Without the illegal scrummaging from Cronin it's a legitimate contest. It's as simple as that. If Bealham had collapsed without being pulled down then a penalty against him would be fair, it didn't happen.


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    #653
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    connemara man wrote: »
    By Eddie, he solely focuses on Bealham nothing to say about Cronins actions

    He said that the loosehead is not obliged to hold the tighthead up. He did analyse one scrum where they both scrummaged legally.


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    #654
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    He said that the loosehead is not obliged to hold the tighthead up. He did analyse one scrum where they both scrummaged legally.

    But that ignores the fact that the loosehead pulled the tighthead down. Which you know is illegal, the analysis is useless without that.

    If you were to penalise and card both, what specifically would the penalty against Bealham be for?


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    #655
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    You yourself agree Cronin deserved a card.

    Locking out the scrum is not illegal. Without the illegal scrummaging from Cronin it's a legitimate contest. It's as simple as that. If Bealham had collapsed without being pulled down then a penalty against him would be fair, it didn't happen.


    It seems you have to hold your own weight up which Bealham wasn't doing and which is dangerous forcing Cronin to collapse the scrum trying to hold him up.


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    #656
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    It seems you have to hold your own weight up which Bealham wasn't doing and which is dangerous forcing Cronin to collapse the scrum trying to hold him up.

    Right... Bealham wasn't supporting his own weight while being pulled to the ground by Cronin, and Croning was forced to pull at his arm...

    At least we know what you see


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    #657
    connemara man
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 6,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭connemara man


    jm08 wrote: »
    He said that the loosehead is not obliged to hold the tighthead up. He did analyse one scrum where they both scrummaged legally.

    the loose head has to bind properly which he didn't because he was dragging from the start


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    #658
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,961 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    jm08 wrote: »
    He said that the loosehead is not obliged to hold the tighthead up. He did analyse one scrum where they both scrummaged legally.

    Exactly. The LH doesn't have to hold up the opposing TH. But he has to hold himself up. Bealham put his feet back and locked himself out. Not illegal. Cronin couldn't cope with this and pulled down. This is one of the problems of scrumming against good tall TH (see Carl Hayman).

    The LH has to hold his on weight even if he is going backwards. Cronin couldn't.


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    #659
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Lads why are ye bothering? Cronin could have bene lying on his back, reaching up grabbing Bealham's collar and manhandling him to the ground and he'd still be arguing that Bealham was going to ground by himself and deserved to be penalised.


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    #660
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    But that ignores the fact that the loosehead pulled the tighthead down. Which you know is illegal, the analysis is useless without that.

    If you were to penalise and card both, what specifically would the penalty against Bealham be for?

    Dangerous play.


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    #661
    connemara man
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 6,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭connemara man


    jm08 wrote: »
    Dangerous play.

    and what was dangerous from the laws of the game?


This discussion has been closed.
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