Five dead in Buncrana accident

Jayop

RIP to those who died and my heart goes out to those family and friends who's lives will be in tatters after this. The buck who risked his own life to go in and save the baby is undoubtedly a hero. Someone in the car must have been more concerned with getting the kids out and saving them than getting themselves out if the baby was removed from a child seat and passed out the window.

Sick to the stomach really.


As for the debates in this thread, they're mostly pointless and probably shouldn't be happening. However there's one thing I will say is that every parent should have their kids in swimming lessons as early as possible and bring them to water as much as possible. They should also learn to swim themselves.

wokingvoter

ongarboy wrote: »

My hearts go out to the loved ones left behind. This tragedy has really affected me more than most due to the particularly horrific circumstances. I wonder how over the course of the 10 minutes why it simply was not possible to open the doors. Does it become impossible to push against the weight of the water?

I've always had a phobia about driving on piers. I think it comes from remembering my dad driving our family in our 2 door estate car on a pier once back in the 80s and when he reversed to do a 3 point turn around, it seemed like we were right at the edge and it freaked me as I felt we'd have been trapped due to the lack of back seat doors should anything have happened.

Panic shock cold tiredness dark kids panicking seat belts fastened doors locked ready to head home
All these things conspire against you and the next thing the water is totally flooding the car and it's too late to think straight
All these posts on this thread "he should have done..." and "this is what you should do..." are well meaning but pointless
Human nature is to panic wildly making things 10 times worse
We don't know why these things happen
They just do
One of the little boys had Muscular Dystrophy . Poor little scrap.
How the hell is his mother going to survive? It's not anything you could ever manage, that kind of pain

freshpopcorn

R.I.P to all those involved.
None of know exactly what happened or if the people were strong swimmers or not.
From the few people I know of who've drown they've all being good swimmers.

Jayop

freshpopcorn wrote: »

R.I.P to all those involved.
None of know exactly what happened or if the people were strong swimmers or not.
From the few people I know of who've drown they've all being good swimmers.

Be that as it may, being a strong swimmer certainly won't have been the cause of the drowning however in other circumstances it could save them.

pc7

wokingvoter wrote: »

How the hell is his mother going to survive? It's not anything you could ever manage, that kind of pain

I can't even go there, first thoughts I'd walk straight into the sea after them, its beyond belief how you would get the strength to go on.

PowerToWait

ongarboy wrote: »

. I wonder how over the course of the 10 minutes why it simply was not possible to open the doors. Does it become impossible to push against the weight of the water?

I'd say there's some confusion.

The Mr. Crawford witness says it was bobbing for about 10 minutes. But in fairness that's probably not accurate.

Might have seemed like forever to him but the RNLI chap says it was seconds and not minutes. Which seems more likely.

Jayop

The lad who saved the baby has been named. I wasn't aware that he also ended up in hospital afterwards.

http://www.donegalnow.com/news/hero-who-rescued-baby-in-buncrana-tragedy-is-a-former-harps-player/82019

captbarnacles

Ken Masters wrote: »

This is an horrific thought

I think the adults in the front could have saved themselves but with their kids in the back were never going that route.

eviltwin

Jayop wrote: »

The lad who saved the baby has been named. I wasn't aware that he also ended up in hospital afterwards.

http://www.donegalnow.com/news/hero-who-rescued-baby-in-buncrana-tragedy-is-a-former-harps-player/82019

The word hero is overused but this guy deserves it. What a brave thing to do.

fatknacker

I'm wracking my brains wondering why car manufacturers cant come up with safety features for this type of scenario. Would some kind of giant airbag that's deployed underneath the chassis help at all? Just to keep the car afloat for enough time to escape.

intheclouds

fatknacker wrote: »

I'm wracking my brains wondering why car manufacturers cant come up with safety features for this type of scenario. Would some kind of giant airbag that's deployed underneath the chassis help at all? Just to keep the car afloat for enough time to escape.

The best safety feature for such a scenario would be a roof that can be detached by pulling a lever.

Thoie

fatknacker wrote: »

I'm wracking my brains wondering why car manufacturers cant come up with safety features for this type of scenario. Would some kind of giant airbag that's deployed underneath the chassis help at all? Just to keep the car afloat for enough time to escape.

If I'm doing 120kph along a motorway, and someone passes me and throws a spray of water from a puddle up that happens to hit the wrong place on my car, I don't want my car turning into a hovercraft on the spot.

purplecow1977

Thoie wrote: »

If I'm doing 120kph along a motorway, and someone passes me and throws a spray of water from a puddle up that happens to hit the wrong place on my car, I don't want my car turning into a hovercraft on the spot.

Maybe not an instant thing then, more so a button to be activated or so.

fatknacker

Thoie wrote: »

If I'm doing 120kph along a motorway, and someone passes me and throws a spray of water from a puddle up that happens to hit the wrong place on my car, I don't want my car turning into a hovercraft on the spot.

Oh yes, I'm sure splashing through puddles would never be thought of with this hypothetical idea, much like tapping on the window deploys driver's airbags in an instant.

Cordell

Any solution will be expensive, too expensive for a very unlikely scenario. It's like asking why they don't fit ejector seats on commercial airplanes. I know its not a sensitive thing to say but this is how it goes.

SEPT 23 1989

Manufacturers cant be expected to design cars for the minute chance it might end up in the drink

whiskeyman

fatknacker wrote: »

I'm wracking my brains wondering why car manufacturers cant come up with safety features for this type of scenario.

It's so rare, there's simply no point.
Like others have said, prevention is better than cure... you need to ensure points where cars could access water have adequate safety measures etc...
You'd have cars the size of houses if you had every possible danger situation build in.

Jayop

Aye it would make much more sense to put barriers up at the few locations where this could happen to prevent it rather than fit every single car manufactured with something to help when it does.

P_1

Jayop wrote: »

The lad who saved the baby has been named. I wasn't aware that he also ended up in hospital afterwards.

http://www.donegalnow.com/news/hero-who-rescued-baby-in-buncrana-tragedy-is-a-former-harps-player/82019

Possibly the understatement of the thread but well done that man.

Guy:Incognito

I havnt seen anything other than the snippets on the radio news. Were the people from Donegal and Irish (Republic)? Just thought it was odd it]f they were that Martin McGuinness was over visiting the woman who lost her family and while maybe not the way it was meant, describing it as having the horrible "duty" of offering condolences. Did he know the family? If he didnt it seems odd to be involved at all/

Personalty I'd have no interest in politician I didnt know, nevermind one that isnt even a representative in Ireland , showing up for a photo op at the funeral of my loved ones , worse again showing up at my front door the day after it happened. The local priest was on the radio giving an interview and talking about his conversation with the mother and funeral arrangements. The people arent even dead 12 hours at that stage.

Stheno

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I havnt seen anything other than the snippets on the radio news. Were the people from Donegal and Irish (Republic)? Just thought it was odd it]f they were that Martin McGuinness was over visiting the woman who lost her family and while maybe not the way it was meant, describing it as having the horrible "duty" of offering condolences. Did he know the family? If he didnt it seems odd to be involved at all/

Personalty I'd have no interest in politician I didnt know, nevermind one that isnt even a representative in Ireland , showing up for a photo op at the funeral of my loved ones , worse again showing up at my front door the day after it happened. The local priest was on the radio giving an interview and talking about his conversation with the mother and funeral arrangements. The people arent even dead 12 hours at that stage.

They were from Derry

fatknacker

Yeah fair enough it is rare, but it's the second time in a few days this has happened and the thoughts of how quickly it can happen is terrifying.

retro:electro

The man who rescued the baby was on the news there. He is awful shook up god love him he is clearly traumatised and has stitches on his feet. He feels terrible that he couldnt do more. He also said that the father of the family was out of the car at one stage but went back in to help the others.

cdeb

velo.2010 wrote: »

Regarding the doors not opening. I believe that a car has to go under to equalise the pressure inside and outside for the doors to open with some force. It would have been impossible to open them even if the water only came halfway up.

Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but there was a bit on Top Gear years back about this - in the tests they (Hammond) did, it was shown that the best thing to do is to open the doors and get out as quickly as possible. Don't wait for pressure to equalise (which means letting the car fill up with water) - it doesn't work. Problem is the pressure will only equalise once you reach the floor. Until then, the external pressure is always increasing, and the internal pressure is always catching up.

It can also happen very, very quickly - 30 seconds from hitting water to gone under for the car in the Top Gear test.

Not going to link it here for obvious reasons, but it was actually a very interesting test.

Obviously can't imagine what it must have been like - the shock from the cold, in the dark, not really understanding what was going on I would imagine, your whole family in the car. Heartbreaking stuff.

Edit - I see the above test was mentioned a couple of pages after the OP. Still, I've added a bit more detail, so maybe worth keeping there.

diomed

I carry a centre spring punch in my car.
If doors can't be opened (my car or another car) it can be used to shatter the window.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dv0UU66CbU

HiGlo

I'm the same as many others here. This tragedy has been playing on my mind all day today. It's quite upsetting and I can't even imagine the trauma for that poor woman/mother.

Fair play to that guy for swimming out. I noticed on the initial report last night he had asked reporters not to name him (I read a Daily Mail article about 11pm) but the older man who's been all over the radio today actually named him (inadvertently I'd guess) on his interview with Anton Savage this morning.

It's just such a random accident. The thoughts of the fear and panic those people must have felt has been playing on my mind all day...
Such an awful situation, for everyone involved.....

wokingvoter

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I havnt seen anything other than the snippets on the radio news. Were the people from Donegal and Irish (Republic)? Just thought it was odd it]f they were that Martin McGuinness was over visiting the woman who lost her family and while maybe not the way it was meant, describing it as having the horrible "duty" of offering condolences. Did he know the family? If he didnt it seems odd to be involved at all/

Personalty I'd have no interest in politician I didnt know, nevermind one that isnt even a representative in Ireland , showing up for a photo op at the funeral of my loved ones , worse again showing up at my front door the day after it happened. The local priest was on the radio giving an interview and talking about his conversation with the mother and funeral arrangements. The people arent even dead 12 hours at that stage.

RTE/NEWSTALK door stepped the priest
He described the funeral arrangements which are complicated by the fact that it's Holy Week
The funeral arrangements are not private and confidential
They'll be on the Derry newspapers tomorrow and on Donegal radio too
He spoke in general terms about his efforts to console a shocked grieving family
You haven't taken the time to read that the family are constituents of Martin McGuiness and most likely SF voters but you spot a chance to criticise and you just can't pass it up
Well done

Guy:Incognito

wokingvoter wrote: »

RTE/NEWSTALK door stepped the priest
He described the funeral arrangements which are complicated by the fact that it's Holy Week
The funeral arrangements are not private and confidential
They'll be on the Derry newspapers tomorrow and on Donegal radio too
He spoke in general terms about his efforts to console a shocked grieving family
You haven't taken the time to read that the family are constituents of Martin McGuiness and most likely SF voters but you spot a chance to criticise and you just can't pass it up
Well done

The interview I heard was a live phone one with Matt Cooper on Today FM (I think, I tend to flick around stations, but it definitely wasnt RTE). He was talking and answering questions about the woman.

I dont have time for politicians rocking up and involving themselves in my affairs, which is my personal opinion. It's not a road that needs fixing or a problem in the community so just like any other random stranger , I dont need them telling me how sorry they are that my loved ones who they didnt know died, whether I'm a constituent of theirs or not. It's no different to people giving out about politicians dropping in to disaster zones to get their faces on the tv (it's worse if anything)

Maybe the woman is fine with it, I didnt know anything about her or the family, which is why I asked.

eviltwin

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The interview I heard was a live phone one with Matt Cooper on Today FM. He was talking and answering questions about the woman.

I dont have time for politicians rocking up and involving themselves in my affairs, which is my personal opinion. It's not a road that needs fixing or a problem in the community so just like any other random stranger , I dont need them telling me how sorry they are that my loved ones who they didnt know died, whether I'm a constituent of theirs or not.

Maybe the woman is fine with it, I didnt know anything about her or the family, which is why I asked.

They don't just rock up. Their representatives check with a family representative to ensure its okay. If he went you can assume the family and Ms Daniels were okay with that.

maudgonner

Can we please not have this thread turn into a Sinn Fein (or other political parties) bashing/loving thread? Any other thread, grand, but not this one?