Five dead in Buncrana accident

MadJack2016

eviltwin wrote: »

Easy to say that from the comfort of your armchair. IOnce adrenaline kicks in its very hard to relax. I would panic, I wouldn't be able to be calm, combination of the cold, the dark, the terror, the screams of the kids. He was able to save the life of his daughter, time was against them unfortunately.

Well in a situation you have to relax, you have to keep a cool head and you have to act quickly.

seamus

murpho999 wrote: »

What I don't get is that the car went in with at least one window open as they passed the baby out through it, so I can't understand why at least one could not get out.

The Irish Times reported that at least 3 of them were taken from the water as opposed to the car, which indicates that there was at least attempts by the occupants to escape.

There's not really a lot of point in speculating. That particular slipway has a sheer drop after it goes below the waterline, and cars are heavy. If the window is open, once it has filled with water up to the level of the sea, it will sink like a stone. They probably weren't prepared for this to actually happen and were expecting to be stuck in the car, in the water. Hence why they didn't instantly start unbuckling and jumping out as soon as it became clear the car was going into the water.

CB19Kevo

Terrible incident,Not the first one to happen by any means but the worst i can remember due to all the factors involved.
I spent the day yesterday in a boat and only too aware that when it goes wrong in water it can go bad very quickly.
Lessons need to be learned,we need to ensure these piers are secured and hope that we can prevent such a incident in the future.
RIP.

Merkin

This tragedy has really affected me, I just can't begin to imagine the terror the people in the car and the helpless bystanders felt while it was all going on, it's just so terribly sad. RIP to them all.

La.de.da

Terribly sad and tragic accident.
My heart goes out to the families of those involved. The witnesses and rescue people.

MadJack2016

Wibbs wrote: »

If the ignition is on. If not, for most cars, no windows. Yeah right. Jesus when this sorta tragedy happens the amount of Walter Mitty types that spring forth… OK try kicking out the window in a car on land in a scrapyard or wherever. Strap yourself in and go. Time yourself from when you unbuckle your seatbelt to when you finally kick the glass out. If you manage to kick the glass out. Now imagine how Rambo you are in a car full with people screaming, rapidly sinking and with water pressure supporting the glass. You wouldn't have a snowball in hell's chance and that is a fact.

What exactly is Walter Mitty about soberly suggesting people be situationaly aware, that we live in a maritime country with lakes and rivers and that cars can and do end up in water and this incident should get people thinking about how they would escape from a sinking car?

Years back I was in a car where the driver decided that she could drive through a flooded road. Not the sparkiest of ideas. Anyway the road dipped and the water got deeper and the car conked out, as they will. Water was flooding into the footwells so I thought sod this, I'll get out and walk. The water level was maybe a foot up the doors, if that and by god it took some strength to slowly open that door. No way was I forcing it quickly. Unless someone has direct experience of the effects of water pressure they will be surprised at the power of it.

As was already explained occupants of a sinking car are advised to wait calmly until the car fills with water before opening the doors underwater.

It does M, but it has been shown and I've seen this for myself, when panic kicks in the majority of people either freeze on the spot(play dead) or follow the herd trying to escape the danger(run away). Very few actually do things differently. And that's probably overall a good thing, otherwise we would have evolved a different panic mode. If you think about it, the guy or gal that stays calm in the one place, or worse confronts the danger may have been the guy or gal in the past most likely to have been eaten by large hairy things with teeth.

Confronting danger and getting into the mindset to deal with worse case scenarios is logical surely?

wokingvoter

Dolbert wrote: »

Imagine how miserable you'd have to be to use something like this for point-scoring.

Miserable bitter and completely heartless

livedadream

MadJack2016 wrote: »

What killed these people is they and the witnesses panicked.
In an emergency situation you have to stay cool and calm or you will make a mistake and you WILL kill yourself and kill others around you because panic is contagious.
For instance in fire situations people run with the rest of the panicked crowd toward a distant main exit instead of being aware of a nearby fire exit which will get them out faster and more safely which is the difference between life and death.
Vehicle immersions thankfully happen rarely but they DO happen in maritime countries with lots of rivers and regular flooding just like Ireland more regularly.
People should be taught what to do in such a situation.
In an infamous plane crash a pilot managed to bring down a plane on water where it broke into pieces. More people would have lived if they hadn't inflated their life jackets. As a result they were trapped in the air pocket which filled up with water while people who didn't inflate their life jackets and swam out of the wreck through holes in the fuselage reached the surface and survived.
The secret is to be situation-ally aware at all times especially when near water or in a vehicle.

drowning was what killed them. if you are in a seat belt and it is stuck i dunno maybe because you are under water.. its not easy. breaking windows is ridiculously difficult to do on land let alone in water.
so it opening the doors.

MadJack2016

livedadream wrote: »

drowning was what killed them.

Parking the vehicle on the ramp was the trigger for this tragedy.

Easca Peasca

What a tragic loss of life. They should be remembered for managing to save the baby, God rest them.

livedadream

MadJack2016 wrote: »

Parking the vehicle on the ramp was the trigger for this tragedy.

or, the alge that everyone is saying is slippery that the jeep slid on. not panic or the inability to Bear Gryls it.

gctest50

MadJack2016 wrote: »

Well in a situation you have to relax, you have to keep a cool head and you have to act quickly.

Sounds like the mating call of a three-course-wonder

EazyD

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, we don't really though. The vast majority of people don't spend any time near the water except in a pair of togs or hiking boots. Incidents of vehicles going into the water accidentally are incredibly rare, even if you did teach people what to do, whether they would recall it 30 years later in a blind panic is another matter entirely.

Having a hammer in the car is of course useful, but again whether someone would remember they have it, is another question. Glove compartments are usually a mess of crap at the best of times. Maybe they should come as standard and be attached at the side of the driver's wheelwell.

But, again having it there and knowing when and how to use it are two different thing.

I would expect sales of these will skyrocket this week.

If you have a look on Amazon, there are key chains that are designed for this purpose also.

jobless

an awful tragedy... i can't imagine what they went through it sends a shiver down my spine... may they rest in peace and god give the mother of the baby strength over the next while...

between this and the carrickmines tragedy its been a horrendous 12 months...

Wibbs

MadJack2016 wrote: »

What exactly is Walter Mitty about soberly suggesting people be situationaly aware, that we live in a maritime country with lakes and rivers and that cars can and do end up in water and this incident should get people thinking about how they would escape from a sinking car?

Kicking the glass out is Walter Mitty. I will lay a bet now you wouldn't be able to do it in under a minute in air, unless you sport hobnail boots. It's called toughened glass for a reason and no way in hell are you getting through the laminated windscreen.

As was already explained occupants of a sinking car are advised to wait calmly until the car fills with water before opening the doors underwater.

And Mr Mitty rises again. OK let's suppose that you with nerves of steel and will of iron "wait calmly"(my hoop), what about the children and the others in the car? Then we have the interwebs warrior with opening the doors underwater. Have a look at the Mythbusters episode where they tried this. Yes he was able to do it when the pressure equalised, but it still took a lot of effort, it was done under warmer non panicked controlled conditions and he needed an oxygen supply to do it. Oh and even though it was in a pool with rescue divers yer man had a few panicked moments shooting that feature. As you would.

Confronting danger and getting into the mindset to deal with worse case scenarios is logical surely?

Brilliant in fantasyland, in reality things get messy bloody quickly. You'd know this if you were ever in a non armchair related crisis. Anyway, I give up. Could not be arsed engaging with keyboard heroes in the wake of this level of tragedy. Apologies to others.

Mountainsandh

MadJack2016 wrote: »

Parking the vehicle on the ramp was the trigger for this tragedy.

You can't prepare everyone for every event in life. I think urging caution and prevention are probably more useful on a large scale than pontificating about what you should or should not do once the situation is happening.

I'm shocked, horrified and sad as everyone else, and my thoughts go to this lady and her baby, I hope she will be supported and manages to deal with this tragedy, somehow.

Adrift

Awful tragedy. RIP.


Can't get over some of the "Kick the window down", "The car shouldn't have been on the slipway" "Simply Let the car fill up with water" type posts.


Emergency situations are not black and white, and by their very nature are unpredictable. Some here could do with being more respectful and widening their perspective.

PowerToWait

It seems 3 of them did manage to escape the vehicle but couldn't make it to shore.

An ineffable tragedy whatever way it happened.

donegaLroad

this is from an online Donegal news source:

A two-month-old baby was rescued after it was apparently handed out a window of the car by the occupants to a man who swam to their aid.

The coast guard also reported that the water was 3.5m deep where the suv sank.

Those poor people must not have been able to swim, a few of them had managed to get out of the car. rip

Mr. CooL ICE

MadJack2016 wrote: »

This tragedy was survivable if the occupants had known what do in such a situation.
I watched Bear Grylls Worse Case Scenario and an old TV sketch where comedian Dave Allen and guest were dropped into a water tank inside a car. There are two schools of thought it would seem. In the first case roll the windows down or break the glass and allow the car to fill up and then get out through the windows or in the second case sit calmly in the car and let it fill up and then open the car doors when you are underwater after taking a gulp of air. Counter intuitively you should NOT unbuckle your seat belt because you will float to the top as the car is filling up. If you wait until the car is full submerged and then unbuckle your belt you will more easily get out. Once you are out you can get to the surface by kicking. When kids are in the car the bigger kids go first ahead of the smaller kids.

MadJack2016 wrote: »

What exactly is Walter Mitty about soberly suggesting people be situationaly aware, that we live in a maritime country with lakes and rivers and that cars can and do end up in water and this incident should get people thinking about how they would escape from a sinking car?

As was already explained occupants of a sinking car are advised to wait calmly until the car fills with water before opening the doors underwater.

Confronting danger and getting into the mindset to deal with worse case scenarios is logical surely?

Mod:

That's nice and all, but if saving yourself in such a scenario was as easy as you suggest, I'm pretty sure these people wouldn't have died.

Stop posting in this thread until you consider human nature and the average person's reactions in these situations.

jack presley

MadJack2016 wrote: »

Nonetheless in a dangerous situation if you keep cool and calm you will more likely come out of it than if you lose your head.

Really? If only everyone in difficult situations knew that.

Hrududu

MadJack2016 wrote: »

As was already explained occupants of a sinking car are advised to wait calmly until the car fills with water before opening the doors underwater.

I saw an episode of Top Gear (possibly not Top Gear but it was definitely Richard Hammond) once where they were investigating if this was true. Apparently you're not supposed to do this. As soon as the car hits the water you're supposed to immediately open the door before the water rises too far. There is no way you would keep a cool enough head to calmly let the car fill with water when you have 4 kids in the car.

I find it hard to believe people truly think they know how they'd behave in a situation like this. You might like to think you'd know all the right things and would keep calm enough to do them but the sheer panic would surely mess up your plans.

MadJack2016

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Mod:

That's nice and all, but if saving yourself in such a scenario was as easy as you suggest, I'm pretty sure these people wouldn't have died.

Stop posting in this thread until you consider human nature and the average person's reactions in these situations.

I merely pointed out that people should be situationally aware and consider dangers and prepare for the worst and learn what to do in life and death situations.e.g fire, saving a drowning person, performing CPR etc etc.

donegaLroad

donegaLroad wrote: »

Those poor people must not have been able to swim, a few of them had managed to get out of the car. rip

They may have been able to swim, but in darkness, panic, confusion, it's very hard to know even what is swimming up from down, or swimming further away from the shore.

captbarnacles

Appalling tragedy. The terror of being in that car. God.

I read a fair amount about these situations before and the number one thing seems to be get the windows down while you still can which might not seem like a good idea as freezing water fills your car but is still your best shot. Try telling your kids in the back 'we are going into the sea get your windows down'.

MadJack2016

jack presley wrote: »

Really? If only everyone in difficult situations knew that.

Everyone should know that.
For instance if you are in a building where there is a fire you should calmly walk toward the nearest exit and get out. In tragedies people panic and run for the main exit where everyone else is going and get jammed in a corridor which fills with smoke and kills them even though an easier exit was nearby.
As I said in a previous post since we live in a maritime country and we also have many lakes and rivers and we regularly get floods getting trapped in a sinking car could happen to anyone of us and its worth finding out what to do.
You have seconds to act in situations like this so it's worth thinking about scenarios like fire, sinking, heart attacks, etc etc before they happen and put yourself in a cool detached mindset as much as you possibly can.

purplecow1977

MadJack2016 wrote: »

Everyone should know that.
For instance if you are in a building where there is a fire you should calmly walk toward the nearest exit and get out. In tragedies people panic and run for the main exit where everyone else is going and get jammed in a corridor which fills with smoke and kills them even though an easier exit was nearby.
As I said in a previous post since we live in a maritime country and we also have many lakes and rivers and we regularly get floods getting trapped in a sinking car could happen to anyone of us and its worth finding out what to do.
You have seconds to act in situations like this so it's worth thinking about scenarios like fire, sinking, heart attacks, etc etc before they happen and put yourself in a cool detached mindset as much as you possibly can.

How many people do you actually know of that have died in a fire because they went for the exit furthest away?

It's all well and good to say 'have a cool detached mindset' but when adrenaline kicks in I wager it's a completely different ballgame.

January

MadJack2016 wrote: »

Everyone should know that.
For instance if you are in a building where there is a fire you should calmly walk toward the nearest exit and get out. In tragedies people panic and run for the main exit where everyone else is going and get jammed in a corridor which fills with smoke and kills them even though an easier exit was nearby.
As I said in a previous post since we live in a maritime country and we also have many lakes and rivers and we regularly get floods getting trapped in a sinking car could happen to anyone of us and its worth finding out what to do.
You have seconds to act in situations like this so it's worth thinking about scenarios like fire, sinking, heart attacks, etc etc before they happen and put yourself in a cool detached mindset as much as you possibly can.

I'm sorry but unless you've been in any one of those situations yourself then you have no idea how you, yourself will react. It's all well and good having scenario's planned. You're coming across as heartless and cold in your posting.

Annasopra

MadJack2016 wrote: »

Well in a situation you have to relax, you have to keep a cool head and you have to act quickly.

Yes but honestly most instinctively won't. Preaching it from your keyboard won't make a difference now.

wardides

MadJack2016 wrote: »

Everyone should know that.
For instance if you are in a building where there is a fire you should calmly walk toward the nearest exit and get out. In tragedies people panic and run for the main exit where everyone else is going and get jammed in a corridor which fills with smoke and kills them even though an easier exit was nearby.
As I said in a previous post since we live in a maritime country and we also have many lakes and rivers and we regularly get floods getting trapped in a sinking car could happen to anyone of us and its worth finding out what to do.
You have seconds to act in situations like this so it's worth thinking about scenarios like fire, sinking, heart attacks, etc etc before they happen and put yourself in a cool detached mindset as much as you possibly can.

I honestly don't see what you're adding to this thread. You're talking hypothetical nonsense, in relation to situations where you have absolutely no experience of being in. There is a huge difference between thinking and planning to be in a "cool detached" mindset when in a horrible situation like this, and actually fulfilling that plan. I'm not even sure why the Mods haven't got rid yet as you're talking crap.