Five dead in Buncrana accident

Liamario

seamus wrote: »

As someone else has mentioned, being confident in the water and being a strong swimmer are two entirely different things. Having learned to swim early I would have always considered myself an able swimmer who could get myself out of any trouble. Then a couple of years back I decided to swim regularly, with a view to maybe doing a triathlon. First off I had a couple of weeks realising that my technique was all over the place. I could swim alright, but not at any great pace.

Then once I started being able to do full lengths of a 25m pool, the effort required to do multiple lengths became very apparent. 200m is not a long distance. If you found yourself this far out at sea and fighting against a tide, anyone who in fact doesn't do much swimming will likely completely exhaust themselves trying to get back in, regardless of how confident they are in the water or fit and able bodied they are.

Then throw in the challenge of being fully clothed and/or attempting to rescue someone else. It is even simple things like that. If this man hadn't taken ten seconds to remove his clothes or had spent five more seconds trying to rescue one of the other kids, we'd be talking about seven drowned people today rather than five. It's probably scant consolation for him, but he did absolutely everything he could, he gave his all.

I fear that man will be running the events over and over. Not only the horror of it all, but also questioning himself and whether he could have done more. It's just absolutely horrific.

maudgonner

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Well I've just sent in a (furious, slightly incoherent, ranting) complaint to RTE about their coverage.

complaints@rte.ie, if anyone else is interested in doing the same.

I'm quite sure they haven't breached any guidelines or rules (they have plenty lawyers to advise them on that) but I'm happy to have expressed my utter disgust at the manner of coverage, and hope that someone somewhere takes note.

Fr anyone who's annoyed with the RTE (or other broadcasters') coverage, there is a procedure for making complaints against a broadcaster. The BAI is the broadcasting authority, and they lay down codes of conduct for RTE and the other TV and radio stations. One of the points in the code of conduct is that they should adequately respect an individual's privacy.

If you feel they have breached the code of conduct, you should make a complaint. The first step is to complain to the broadcaster directly (as you've mentioned above). If you aren't satisfied with their response, you can then take it to the next level - make a complaint directly to the BAI. They will then conduct a complaints procedure (that involves a number of steps, and may eventually result in a reprimand, apology and fine for the broadcaster). BAI complaints are taken seriously.

You can get full details of the complaints procedure on the BAI website.

HeidiHeidi

Liamario wrote: »

I fear that man will be running the events over and over. Not only the horror of it all, but also questioning himself and whether he could have done more. It's just absolutely horrific.

Well RTE (and God knows what other media outlets) questioning him up and down and sideways about it, and how he feels about not having been able to save more, certainly won't help him :mad:

eviltwin

B0jangles wrote: »

^^^

I thought the interview on the 6.01 news last night with Davitt Walsh was particularly disgusting; the poor man was obviously barely able to keep himself together but the interviewer thought it was appropriate to ask him how he felt about not being able to save everyone.

Utterly utterly disgusting.

That question was out of order but I don't have a problem with him being interviewed. When you experience a trauma part of the process of accepting it is talking about it. Now I know there are other places to talk about it besides national tv but he'd had counselling that day so I'd imagine a part of that counselling involved discussing media attention. It might have been important for him to tell his story in his own words, get it over with so he can now focus on recovering. Poor guy, I'm haunted by his experience just hearing it second hand. It must have been dreadful for him.

K-9

Part of counselling is time to think about advice, whether it is right for the individual.

It's just too quick. Maybe 24 hours later when you've had a chance to sleep on it.

helimachoptor

B0jangles wrote: »

^^^

I thought the interview on the 6.01 news last night with Davitt Walsh was particularly disgusting; the poor man was obviously barely able to keep himself together but the interviewer thought it was appropriate to ask him how he felt about not being able to save everyone.

Utterly utterly disgusting.

agree, i mean the guy has watched 2 very young kids, a teenager, and 2 adults die with the dad making a decision to go back to a car that was sinking to try and get them out when there was a very high chance he would die himself.

The guy has the sheer joy of saving a baby while the horrendous feeling of "could i have done more, could i have saved the two kids" along with a possible chance to try and save the dad


I dont see why RTE sent a whole set up to Donegal, very american tbh but a sign of the times.

Ice Maiden

B0jangles wrote: »

^^^

I thought the interview on the 6.01 news last night with Davitt Walsh was particularly disgusting; the poor man was obviously barely able to keep himself together but the interviewer thought it was appropriate to ask him how he felt about not being able to save everyone.

Utterly utterly disgusting.

Media utterly milking it. It is an horrific tragedy - we all know that, there is nothing more to say to the people grieving. The running it into the ground is just tacksville.

Gael23

K-9 wrote: »

Part of counselling is time to think about advice, whether it is right for the individual.

It's just too quick. Maybe 24 hours later when you've had a chance to sleep on it.

I think you have to process things yourself for a period before beginning counselling. It won't do him any benefit just now.

K-9

Gael23 wrote: »

I think you have to process things yourself for a period before beginning counselling. It won't do him any benefit just now.

Indeed, I'd be amazed if a counsellor told him to deal with it by going on the 6 O'clock news!

HiGlo

K-9 wrote: »

Apparently the media think we need this wall to wall coverage. Why that is, I don't have a clue.

To try and lighten things up, telling us the news standing up is now the norm.

I believe people have become information addicts. There is constant access to ever changing news and people are hungry for it….
With the accessibility to news now due to the internet and how quickly things move/change, online newspapers or news sites are being regularly updated and also regularly checked…. There’s also soooo many sites now.
I know I, for one, am guilty of checking thejournal.ie or breakingnews.ie or dailymail.co.uk (or whatever) repeatedly throughout the day to see what’s going on in the world.
Gone are the days of printed morning papers and your 6pm & 9pm news bulletins… People could look for new news or information every 2 mins if they wanted….

I think for news outlets, this insatiable thirst for information/news has led them to push further and probe more. They equate people checking back frequently for more news to be that people want more detail, more graphic.

I’ve thought for quite a while now that news reports (or maybe just certain news outlets reports) have gotten way too graphic and overly detailed. It’s like the human side of stories has gone and it’s just a movie plot or something. I particularly felt this with that plane the pilot crashed into the Swiss Alps. The photos the Daily Mail published were just waaaaaay too much. Bad enough printing up close images of the crash site but there was photo published of one of the bodies being autopsied….! There are things that people don’t need to see unless their living the experience.
Same even today with the bomb in Brussels, they’ve printed photos of bodies in the airport and in the metro too. This is completely unnecessary to show in my opinion.

It’s too much and too far. Leave these poor people to grieve. Get out of their faces. I certainly got the impression initially that the guy who dived into the water didn’t want to be named but I would suspect he got hounded by media constantly.

K-9

Ah I'm a news addict as well, my rss/news reader is the most used app on my phone, news, sport etc. But that doesn't mean I want up close interviews or every last detail in tragedies like this.

I was guilty of that a bit when I started reading news online and twitter but it wore off.

I don't know, I think it is more the media thinking they have to provide minute by minute updates or trying to compete with Twitter and Facebook, when really they should let them do what they do best and leave quality news reporting for traditional media.

So you've papers conpeting with Twitter and new media and RTE taking ideas from Sky.

SAMTALK

The most horrific accident to happen.
God love all involved from the families to the people who witnessed this accident, to the emergency crew and to the man who saved the baby.

The media should be ashamed of their treatment of all involved.
Have a bit of dignity and leave this people to deal with all this in their own way and their own time.

We do not need all the gory details.:mad:

ThinkProgress

This kind of behavior from the media would drive ya off the deep end... it really would. Disgraceful coverage!

The young man who saved that little baby - he should be proud of himself. Not depressed... People die everyday. That's life.

He tried his best. Okay perhaps a different person might have saved more of them... but that different person wasn't there. So the family got him. At least he saved one of them!

I'm sure somewhere else in the world, as I type this, there will be some other people drowning in a lake or the sea etc... and they might not have anyone even trying to help them. They will have zero hope of rescue! They will be dying right now knowing that there is zero hope for them!

They're probably already dead now before I've finished typing this up this post!

At least that family had hope. They had hope because of that man.... He gave them some hope for a short period. He should remember that and be proud of himself.

refusetolose

ThinkProgress wrote: »

This kind of behavior from the media would drive ya off the deep end... it really would. Disgraceful coverage!

The young man who saved that little baby - he should be proud of himself. Not depressed... People die everyday. That's life.

He tried his best. Okay perhaps a different person might have saved more of them... but that different person wasn't there. So the family got him. At least he saved one of them!

I'm sure somewhere else in the world, as I type this, there will be some other people drowning in a lake or the sea etc... and they might not have anyone even trying to help them. They will have zero hope of rescue! They will be dying right now knowing that there is zero hope for them!

They're probably already dead now before I've finished typing this up this post!

At least that family had hope. They had hope because of that man.... He gave them some hope for a short period. He should remember that and be proud of himself.

unfortunate choice of words there don't ya think?

embraer170

I've read a good bit of coverage on this tragic incident and I'm wondering one thing: if one is in a car slipping down a pier, what should one do? Then if the car hits the water and one is still inside, again what should one do?

fergiesfolly

Whatever about the media's treatment of the tragedy, Davitt Walsh has spoken to a few news outlets and nobody is forcing him to. He may find it cathartic to go over it. I certainly hope so.
It was an act of incredible bravery and not only did he do all he could, but he did as much as anyone could. The effort involved in reaching the car and returning with that baby would've been beyond most people. Whatever guilt he may be feeling will hopefully be assuaged by the huge public support he's receiving and the gratitude of the baby's mother.

FalconGirl

embraer170 wrote: »

I've read a good bit of coverage on this tragic incident and I'm wondering one thing: if one is in a car slipping down a pier, what should one do? Then if the car hits the water and one is still inside, again what should one do?

I never thought about it until this incident but I'm inclined to think get out as fast as possible and while the doors/windows can still open. Really important skill to be able to swim aswell.

Noo

embraer170 wrote: »

I've read a good bit of coverage on this tragic incident and I'm wondering one thing: if one is in a car slipping down a pier, what should one do? Then if the car hits the water and one is still inside, again what should one do?

First dont panic, million times easier said then done obviously, try opening door or window or break window as soon as possible to get out before the water pressure makes opening them impossible. If that can't be done then you go against all your instincts and calmly hold your breath and wait for the car to fill with water, once the pressure equalises then you can simply open the door and swim to the surface. But try putting all that into practice with a car full of kids though

bigpink

Did the car go off a pier or drove down a slipway?

refusetolose

bigpink wrote: »

Did the car go off a pier or drove down a slipway?

down a slipway

topmanamillion

Noo wrote: »

First dont panic, million times easier said then done obviously, try opening door or window or break window as soon as possible to get out before the water pressure makes opening them impossible. If that can't be done then you go against all your instincts and calmly hold your breath and wait for the car to fill with water, once the pressure equalises then you can simply open the door and swim to the surface. But try putting all that into practice with a car full of kids though

Read recently that the protocol for a car going into water has changed. The accepted wisdom used to be to wait for the pressure to equalize as you said. Now it's try as hard as you can to get out for as long as you can.

bigpink

What was the driver thinking going that close so sad

Cianos

embraer170 wrote: »

I've read a good bit of coverage on this tragic incident and I'm wondering one thing: if one is in a car slipping down a pier, what should one do? Then if the car hits the water and one is still inside, again what should one do?

The first priority is undo your seatbelt and open the windows. Disregard the doors because you won't be able to open them.

The instinct is to preserve the air inside the car by keeping the windows closed and keep yourself safe inside the air bubble, but the water is going to get in and you need to get out.

You need to open the windows while the electrics are still operational. If you can't lower the windows you need to break them. Use anything hard - a phone, or the prongs of a head rest, or position yourself to get good leverage for kicking them.

Don't sit and wait to be rescued, there just isn't enough time. You need to get out of the car asap.

There's a Canadian researcher who has done the most research on this area of car safety and can be found via Google (can't recall his name).

Source: Interview with a spokesperson for the AA on Newstalk yesterday morning

crusier

stimpson wrote:

It will always be the Abbey Mall to me

Noo wrote:

First dont panic, million times easier said then done obviously, try opening door or window or break window as soon as possible to get out before the water pressure makes opening them impossible. If that can't be done then you go against all your instincts and calmly hold your breath and wait for the car to fill with water, once the pressure equalises then you can simply open the door and swim to the surface. But try putting all that into practice with a car full of kids though

The waiting for the water to fill and equalisation does not work, I don't know how to add the link but if you look at you tube there are videos on what to do and not to do.

screamer

Im no scientist or anything but my first thought would be get out feeling a 4 x 4 slipping would be enough to let me know that. I definately don't subscribe to the equal pressure theory, bust the windows and get out.

Having said that that pier could have been like ice and it could just have happened so quickly that there was no time to think. Poor family its so tragic.

NIMAN

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Whatever about the media's treatment of the tragedy, Davitt Walsh has spoken to a few news outlets and nobody is forcing him to. He may find it cathartic to go over it. I certainly hope so.
It was an act of incredible bravery and not only did he do all he could, but he did as much as anyone could. The effort involved in reaching the car and returning with that baby would've been beyond most people. Whatever guilt he may be feeling will hopefully be assuaged by the huge public support he's receiving and the gratitude of the baby's mother.

I think originally he had asked all media to withhold his name as he didn't want to talk about it or give interviews, however the other man on the scene accidently revealed his name in an interview so he had to change his mind.

Lollipops23

bigpink wrote: »

What was the driver thinking going that close so sad

I think he was trying to turn the car and it got caught in the algae and slid down into the water. It's like hitting black ice- you lose control entirely.

NIMAN

Don't think he was turning, although there are a lot of conflicting stories.

I think he had driven down the slipway to near the water, then when he tried to reverse up he couldn't get any grip and the car started to slide forwards into the water.

In hindsight of course we can say it seemed a silly thing to do, but I am sure he didn't think there would be any problem reversing back, plus it was a large SUV probably with 4x4 so thought its was fine.

As for people saying, "why didn't they get out straight away", again this is a question no-one can answer as we don't know the exact timescale and chain of events, or what they were thinking. Perhaps the car slipped a little bit and stopped? If so, perhaps we would also think that it wasn't going any further? Many of us might not want to adandon their car if they thought it had stopped moving? Perhaps they felt safer in the car than getting out and into several feet of water? No-one will know I suppose what was going through their heads, or how long they actually had to make a decision. Sometimes its very hard for eye witnesses to accurately estimate the time scale of things like this. When the pensioner said it was several minutes, perhaps it seemed like several minutes and was actually 1 min? Who knows?

screamer

That poor guy who rescued the baby seemed like a broken man when he was speaking. I hope he is OK he is a hero for saving the baby. he did all that was humanly possible but he just seemed so heartbroken he couldn't do more. I hope he knows saving that baby was a miracle.

darced

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