Official Conor McGregor thread (part 2). **Read warning in 1st post**

Swashbuckler

TimRiggins wrote:

I'm talking about fighters coming out and saying that they think DJ is P4P #1. The flyweight division is taken seriously and won't be cut.

It wouldn't surprise me to be honest. Take DJ put of it and the division is light.....happy with that pun

Subcomandante Marcos

Anyone who disputes that DJ and JJ are the interchangeable p4p number 1 and 2 needs to have a chat with themselves.

MichaelScarn

Johnson has dominated his division and is of course very well respected. I don't think the flyweight division is taken seriously and at the financial side it's PPV numbers are very low

Swashbuckler

Subcomandante Marcos wrote:

Anyone who disputes that DJ and JJ are the interchangeable p4p number 1 and 2 needs to have a chat with themselves.

Joanna or Jon?? Presume you mean Jon. Nope, no debate there.

MichaelScarn

The logic of the p4p ranking system doesn't make sense. The system says ignore weight class and focus on subjective ratings.

To me it is a total waste of time. Johnson is p4p number one, put him against an unranked featherweight and he would get slaughtered.

The p4p ranking system has no legitimacy in my eyes. I appreciate that others on here appreciate the system so c'est la vie

wonderfullife

TimRiggins wrote: »

I'm talking about fighters coming out and saying that they think DJ is P4P #1. The flyweight division is taken seriously and won't be cut.

True, and accept that - but there's a slight difference between fellow fighters respecting a division and the UFC making money from it.

It's the lowest-earning of all the divisions. It has the lowest cumulative PPV buys (by far) when headlined by Flyweights and they contribute very little on undercards.

The new owners are ruthless. I wouldn't be surprised if they take one look at that entire division and say "If we can't turn this around in a year, get rid of it".

The TUF season says it all - trying to find someone new to give Mighty Mouse a scrap and try raise interest in the division.

And, at that, the TUF ratings are the lowest they've ever been.

finglashoop

Personally i prefer lower weights as they are faster and more explosive.

The ufc should push/promote/ gain exposure for more fighters instead of concentrating on the more marketable like mcgregor rousey as when they are gone who replaces them.

Dj is a good example. Everyone acknowledges his obvious skills but his persona is lacking. I find it strange the ufc doesn't try big him up as he is so dominant.

Rousey is hardly a barrel of laughs but she was huge as she was dominating everyone and was a woman so it was something differnet - cyborg has very little hype maybe because she is not as easy on the eye as rousey but they prefer to ask her to kill herself to get to 135 instead of letting people go up 5 lbs to fight her or give her a division t 145.

I could do without ever watching most heavyweights as they are slow and just looking for one big punch.

I can understand people watch the heavier lads for the ko's and thats a draw in itself.

StringerBell

Genuinely thought I was in the wrong thread for a second

wonderfullife

StringerBell wrote: »

Genuinely thought I was in the wrong thread for a second

It did veer slightly off course there

But it's all valid since McGregor is responsible for the $4.2 billion price tag....cough :pac: I completely forgot to mention the following:

Me (to Colin Byrne): Good work on the Mac Life!
Colin: Are ya enjoying them?
Me: They could do with being a couple of mins longer!
McGregor: hahahahaha.
Colin: hahaha. Fecks sake it's all i'm hearing...
McGregor: You can't get everything handed to ye in one go!


And that was that, off to the luas and home.

kumate_champ07

MichaelScarn wrote: »

Ah, so he does have pedigree. Thought he came across as a bit of a charlatan, but more fool me.

Can't see them getting rid of the featherweight division, Holloway is coming through and could be a star

he's a bit of a maverick

TimRiggins

wonderfullife wrote: »

True, and accept that - but there's a slight difference between fellow fighters respecting a division and the UFC making money from it.

It's the lowest-earning of all the divisions. It has the lowest cumulative PPV buys (by far) when headlined by Flyweights and they contribute very little on undercards.

The new owners are ruthless. I wouldn't be surprised if they take one look at that entire division and say "If we can't turn this around in a year, get rid of it".

The TUF season says it all - trying to find someone new to give Mighty Mouse a scrap and try raise interest in the division.

And, at that, the TUF ratings are the lowest they've ever been.

DJ's last headliner did 115k with a piss poor undercard and that was after UFC 189 which alot of people bought. Lawler/Woodley only did 240k, and you have to take into account dominate DJ is that people know he's going to win, where as Lawler is well known for his wars. If they give DJ a good undercard he'd do okay, and he'd add buys with a Co-Main slot.

The TUF season is because there's no one left for him to fight, and the low ratings are more to do with people are sick to death with TUF rather than that their flyweights. Plus the coaches aren't draws either.

wonderfullife

We should discuss this in the General thread Tim. See your point though. But we need to tie the Flyweight division to McGregor if we're gonna do it in here and i'm pretty sure not even George Lockhart can manage that trick!

TimRiggins

wonderfullife wrote: »

We should discuss this in the General thread Tim. See your point though. But we need to tie the Flyweight division to McGregor if we're gonna do it in here and i'm pretty sure not even George Lockhart can manage that trick!

Yeah gone wayyy off topic haha, forgot this was the McGregor thread.

Sorry mods!

John_D80

Wonderfullife is a bit of a headbanger but he might just be the nicest bloke ever (to post in the MMA forum).

This thread is way more friendly and people on it are generally more accepting of the viewpoints of others since he started posting here.

Feels weird, but I like it.

JustTheOne

Would Eddie be his biggest fight so far?

I'm thinking maybe aldo topped it.

Mellor

MichaelScarn wrote: »

The logic of the p4p ranking system doesn't make sense. The system says ignore weight class and focus on subjective ratings.

To me it is a total waste of time. Johnson is p4p number one, put him against an unranked featherweight and he would get slaughtered.

The fact DJ would lose to a lot of Featherweights has no bearing on P4P.
P4P is not about fighters some separate divisions actually fighting.

P4P is not even about the rankings. It's an intangible concept that been around for years.

Swashbuckler

Mellor wrote:

P4P is not even about the rankings. It's an intangible concept that been around for years.

To get back on track and cause some consternation - where would you rank mcgregor in the p4p?

TimRiggins

Swashbuckler wrote: »

To get back on track and cause some consternation - where would you rank mcgregor in the p4p?

If he beats Eddie he'd surely have to be #1?

eddie73

Wilson Faint Greenback wrote: »

Was he not underdog for Diaz II?

Not with the bookies. He was a slight fav.

Swashbuckler

TimRiggins wrote:

If he beats Eddie he'd surely have to be #1?

DJ and Jones are top two for me. Regardless whether he beats Eddie. I'm not sure where he sits tho. Think I'd have Dominic above him too. So maybe fourth if he beats Alvarez.

Zero-Cool

TimRiggins

Jones #1? Did you guys not remember when Matt Hamill stopped him :pac:

Swashbuckler

TimRiggins wrote:

Jones #1? Did you guys not remember when Matt Hamill stopped him

Fight stopped due to severe damage to Jones elbow from Hamill headbutts iirc.

Mellor

Swashbuckler wrote: »

To get back on track and cause some consternation - where would you rank mcgregor in the p4p?

For the sake of simplicity, it's probably easiest to restrict the P4P list to belt holders. Although that's obviously not accurate. But with that in mind I'd have;

1. Mighty Mouse...Close but the little guy edges it in P4P for me.
2. Jon Jones
3. Cruz (return after layoff edges it)
4. McGregor
5. Aldo (tied)
5. Cormier (tied)

After that Alvarez, Stipe, Woodley, Bisping. In that order

Swashbuckler

Yeah I'd pretty much have it the same although Bisping wouldn't be in my top ten.

wonderfullife

Mellor wrote: »

P4P is not even about the rankings. It's an intangible concept that been around for years.

P4P is just there to give the fans something to debate.

The issue i have with the current P4P rankings is that it completely fails to take into account the strength of a division and opponents.

Dominick Cruz last 5 wins:

Faber, Dillashaw, Mizugaki, Mighty Mouse, Faber.

Mighty Mouse last 5 wins:

Cejudo, Dodson, Horiguchi, Cariaso, Bagautinov.

If McGregor gets past Eddie he'll have gone 4-1 against:

Mendes, Aldo, Diaz, Alvarez.

To my mind, Cruz and McGregor have faced far more difficult opponents in stronger divisions.

I can't accept any argument that Mighty Mouse should be above Cruz in P4P rankings. You can argue a case for him being above Jon Jones, but Cruz is undefeated in almost a decade and has a win over DJ - and in the same time DJ has lost twice and gone to a draw with Uncle Creepy.

I'd currently have it ranked:

1. Cruz
2. Jones
3. Conor
4. DC
5. Mighty Mouse

If UFC 205 goes the way we hope, then i'd switch Conor to number 2 on the basis Jon Jones hasn't yet competed outside LHW.

It's not Mighty Mouse's fault that the division is so weak but opponents must be a huge factor in P4P rankings.

If Daniel Cormier eventually gets a win over Jon Jones then he'd fly up towards the number 1 spot - he's been dominant at Heavyweight and Jon Jones is the only blip on his record at LHW. His CV speaks for itself. He's beaten the cream of the crop.

.ak

MichaelScarn wrote: »

That Robin Black breakdown is complete nonsense. The way he presents and communicates his information would make any casual viewer switch the channel.

He did make a good point though, I think people are underestimating Eddie's ability to walk through McGregor's shots. I see an Eddie victory.


Promotion for this event seems very slack or is it just me?

Really? I'm probably in the casual fan bracket, as in I've always had an interest in any contact sport but I couldn't tell you the full roster of the next UFC fight night.

And for me those videos are great; sure he's mildly annoying but he's also very clear in the way he communicates. I've learned a lot about MMA watching his videos that I would normally miss. Showing the bicep control and exposing the ribs in the above video is something I would totally miss.

wonderfullife

Robin Black has a delivery style that puts some people off but there's no doubting the mans passion for MMA. His podcast with David Mullins "Mentality of Combat Sports" is also great value - it's on youtube and episodes usually an hour long. Mullins is a psychologist linked to SBG and has some really good views on the mental side of the game.

You can sense they are both fans of McGregor when they discuss him but they're both very fair with their opinions. Definitely worth a watch for anyone on long bus/train trips or download as a podcast for flights.

Mellor

wonderfullife wrote: »

The issue i have with the current P4P rankings is that it completely fails to take into account the strength of a division and opponents.

Dominick Cruz last 5 wins:

Faber, Dillashaw, Mizugaki, Mighty Mouse, Faber.

Mighty Mouse last 5 wins:

Cejudo, Dodson, Horiguchi, Cariaso, Bagautinov.

If McGregor gets past Eddie he'll have gone 4-1 against:

Mendes, Aldo, Diaz, Alvarez.

To my mind, Cruz and McGregor have faced far more difficult opponents in stronger divisions.

My what metric is a weaker division?

I'd suggest that's it's DJ's dominance that makes it appear weak. If the belt changed hands ever year, via a series of close matches, KO's and subs. People would regard it as a tough division. But DJ dominates, so the rest look soft.

Regardless even if Conor had a tougher run. I'd find it hard to reconcile his 1 (or 2) title fight wins. With DJ's 8. Same with DC, Cruz etc. DJ will break the defenses record soon.

You can't really hold DJs lose to Cruz against him in terms of P4P. As he was undersized at BW. Cruz is better overall sure, but DJ was a flyweight then realistically. Conor's lose to Nate is more relevant that DJs lose to Cruz, currently.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Yeah I'd pretty much have it the same although Bisping wouldn't be in my top ten.

Bisping would be in my actual top either. But the stipulation was bent holders only. There are only 10 belt holders.

wonderfullife

Mellor wrote: »

My what metric is a weaker division?

I'd suggest that's it's DJ's dominance that makes it appear weak.

Fair point. Probably no coincidence that Flyweight and LHW are the 2 perceived weaker divisions - both have dominant champions at the top.

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9 days until the first Embedded of UFC 205 and possibly JK joining Ariel in studio for the MMA Hour?!? Didn't he say that to Ariel that he'd pop in for their pre-fight ritual? That'd be class!