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National Hurling League 2016

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    #92
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    blue note wrote: »
    I much rather it the way it is than the way you're suggesting. .....

    The fact that 1A is so competitive and teams really have to fight to stay out of the relegation playoff has been brilliant for the quality of games though - both for us spectators and for the teams. If it was increased to an 8 team division again we'd be back to dead rubber games and half the teams just trying out lads for most of the games. Glorified challenge matches almost.

    .


    Agree 100%. I would say that average crowds this year are highest ever for league, and the quarter finals and semis will get big crowds too.

    Reason being, that supporters are voting with their feet. They much prefer games that mean something than the sort of games you rightly describe were common in the past.


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    #93
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    In Examiner today there is reference to Cork opposing the current structure on the basis that it is too competitive!

    Mother of Jaysus!

    If there is an afterlife, and if Christy Ring is fit enough to roll, then surely he must be rolling! Or his face as red as his jersey!


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    #94
    Xenophile
    Registered Users Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭Xenophile


    Business, Politics or Sport it is impossible to get everything 100%. right. The top two teams will always have to dig deep to get out of Ib. Good that they have the option of quarter finals, makes Div1a very competitive.

    Play offs and semi finals will both attract both large TV viewing and attendances.

    Give credit to the people who came up with this format, for me. it's at present as the film says "It's as good as it gets"

    The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.



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    #95
    Xenophile
    Registered Users Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭Xenophile


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    In Examiner today there is reference to Cork opposing the current structure on the basis that it is too competitive!

    Mother of Jaysus!

    If there is an afterlife, and if Christy Ring is fit enough to roll, then surely he must be rolling! Or his face as red as his jersey!

    Could Cork not be quiet, after all they are the biggest county in the Country, come back next year and win the competition.

    The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.



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    #96
    dastardly00
    Registered Users Posts: 13,331 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    Results from today's finals:

    Division 2A: Carlow 0-08 - 0-10 Westmeath
    Division 2B: Armagh 0-20 - 1-15 Down
    Division 3A: Monaghan 0-07 - 4-15 Roscommon
    Division 3B: Fermanagh 2-13 - 3-08 Longford

    So Westmeath will play the losers of Kerry and Laois to decide who will be in Division 1B in 2017. Likewise Roscommon will play the losers of Wicklow and Donegal for a place in 2B.

    Meanwhile Armagh and Fermanagh get promoted straight up to Division 2A and 3A respectively. I think I am correct in saying that yeah?


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    #97
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    blue note wrote: »
    I much rather it the way it is than the way you're suggesting. On the naming I mainly agree it's stupid. Since the 1B teams go on to play the 1A teams it's not too bad, but it's just a name so I don't really care.

    Giving the 1B teams an extra game against 1A teams (the quarter finals) has been a great idea. A major problem with being in a lower division was the lack of games against strong opposition to prepare you for championship. Now, if you're one of the two stronger teams you get at least a game against the other stronger team and a 1A team at the end of it (and more if you're good enough). Also, Limerick have shown that the games against Offaly and Wexford are far from walks in the park as well - they were lucky to beat Wexford last year and lost to Offaly. I think Limerick are better, but not good enough that they'll beat them every time.

    The relegation situation from 1B is a disgrace, there should be 1 up 1 down each year.

    The fact that 1A is so competitive and teams really have to fight to stay out of the relegation playoff has been brilliant for the quality of games though - both for us spectators and for the teams. If it was increased to an 8 team division again we'd be back to dead rubber games and half the teams just trying out lads for most of the games. Glorified challenge matches almost.

    Limerick being stuck in 1B is a problem for them I agree - but it's one they have the tools to solve. Their minor team of a couple of years ago was outstanding, they should be bringing those guys through to get themselves out of the division they currently deserve to be in. And then they can play in 1A when they've earned the right.


    Limerick got out of 1B a few years back and then they changed the rules after the league was over. That's the last league match I've attended, the GAA may be able to take some people for mugs but not me. Not that the league is important anyway, if the GAA don't take it serious, I won't.

    On the other issue, 1A and 1B is probably the best way to go, but not the idiotic way it is currently structured. Cork should be down and Laois down, and maybe the top 2 in 1A into a semi final, with 3 and 4 from 1A playing 1 and 2 from 1B to join them.


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    #98
    dastardly00
    Registered Users Posts: 13,331 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Limerick got out of 1B a few years back and then they changed the rules after the league was over. That's the last league match I've attended, the GAA may be able to take some people for mugs but not me. Not that the league is important anyway, if the GAA don't take it serious, I won't.

    That particular scenario might never have happened to specifically Limerick in the first place if the Limerick players didn't quit the panel during the 2010 NHL campaign, which resulted in the team losing all seven matches and being relegated to Division 2 for 2011.... just sayin'.

    Wexford really got the rough end of the stick in 2011. They finished 7th out of 8 teams in Division 1, and so avoided relegation. But when the GAA restructured the format, they were relegated, and ended up in Division 1B for 2012.


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    #99
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭blue note


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Limerick got out of 1B a few years back and then they changed the rules after the league was over. That's the last league match I've attended, the GAA may be able to take some people for mugs but not me. Not that the league is important anyway, if the GAA don't take it serious, I won't.

    On the other issue, 1A and 1B is probably the best way to go, but not the idiotic way it is currently structured. Cork should be down and Laois down, and maybe the top 2 in 1A into a semi final, with 3 and 4 from 1A playing 1 and 2 from 1B to join them.

    It was division 2 they won and then they restructured to 1A and 1B. And as the other poster has said, Wexford were equally screwed that day. They'd just drawn with tipp, and we all know how good tipp were in 2011, to secure safety. they'd beaten Cork that year too. A reasonable clare team was the only team Limerick beat that year, but for some reason now every year when neither Wexford nor Limerick earn promotion we hear about how Limerick were screwed over 5 years ago. Most Limerick fans will admit they deserve to be in 1B now. The rest are just kidding themselves.


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    #100
    Kerrydude1981
    Registered Users Posts: 14,193 ✭✭✭✭Kerrydude1981


    dastardly00 wrote: »
    Results from today's finals:

    Division 2A: Carlow 0-08 - 0-10 Westmeath
    Division 2B: Armagh 0-20 - 1-15 Down
    Division 3A: Monaghan 0-07 - 4-15 Roscommon
    Division 3B: Fermanagh 2-13 - 3-08 Longford

    So Westmeath will play the losers of Kerry and Laois to decide who will be in Division 1B in 2017. Likewise Roscommon will play the losers of Wicklow and Donegal for a place in 2B.

    Meanwhile Armagh and Fermanagh get promoted straight up to Division 2A and 3A respectively. I think I am correct in saying that yeah?

    Ya,Armagh straight up to 2A,great result for them yesterday


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    #101
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Westmeath should be promoted automatically.
    Roscommon and Armagh too.

    It's a no brainer.


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    #102
    Kerrydude1981
    Registered Users Posts: 14,193 ✭✭✭✭Kerrydude1981


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Westmeath should be promoted automatically.
    Roscommon and Armagh too.

    It's a no brainer.

    Agree 100%


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    #103
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Xenophile wrote: »
    Could Cork not be quiet, after all they are the biggest county in the Country, come back next year and win the competition.


    In fairness, JBM never said a word and just got on with it and they did come back. Was more their famous county board bureaucracy who took it as a slight!


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    #104
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    dastardly00 wrote: »
    That particular scenario might never have happened to specifically Limerick in the first place if the Limerick players didn't quit the panel during the 2010 NHL campaign, which resulted in the team losing all seven matches and being relegated to Division 2 for 2011.... just sayin'.

    Wexford really got the rough end of the stick in 2011. They finished 7th out of 8 teams in Division 1, and so avoided relegation. But when the GAA restructured the format, they were relegated, and ended up in Division 1B for 2012.
    blue note wrote: »
    It was division 2 they won and then they restructured to 1A and 1B. And as the other poster has said, Wexford were equally screwed that day. They'd just drawn with tipp, and we all know how good tipp were in 2011, to secure safety. they'd beaten Cork that year too. A reasonable clare team was the only team Limerick beat that year, but for some reason now every year when neither Wexford nor Limerick earn promotion we hear about how Limerick were screwed over 5 years ago. Most Limerick fans will admit they deserve to be in 1B now. The rest are just kidding themselves.

    So because Wexford were equally screwed, this makes it rosy. Nice logic there lads. Can't beat good reasoning.

    I've no problem with Limerick in 1B or 2B for that matter. The league holds zero appeal. Now, the AI is a different matter, the rules there will remain consistent or the organisation will crumble from within.


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    #105
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭blue note


    Rightwing wrote: »
    So because Wexford were equally screwed, this makes it rosy. Nice logic there lads. Can't beat good reasoning.

    I've no problem with Limerick in 1B or 2B for that matter. The league holds zero appeal. Now, the AI is a different matter, the rules there will remain consistent or the organisation will crumble from within.

    Both teams were shafted by the rule change. My point is that Wexford aren't still crying about it. Some people in Limerick are.

    And it's a shame from you that your principles are stopping you from going to league games. Since the league has moved to it's current format it's been a great competition. If I was cynical I'd say that you're just not interested in following your team when they're struggling in division 2, but I can tell with you it's principles, not sunshine support.


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    #106
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    blue note wrote: »
    Both teams were shafted by the rule change. My point is that Wexford aren't still crying about it. Some people in Limerick are.

    And it's a shame from you that your principles are stopping you from going to league games. Since the league has moved to it's current format it's been a great competition. If I was cynical I'd say that you're just not interested in following your team when they're struggling in division 2, but I can tell with you it's principles, not sunshine support.

    It is principle, I'll certainly credit you with that one, but also I don't think the league is a serious competition, when you hear talk of 'this year we're taking the league serious', 'the serious stuff starts in May'.

    I'm not complaining about that incident, it's more to highlight how irrelevant the league really is, that an organisation can change the rules after the competition is over and most see it as fine. I struggle to see how any other sporting body could even contemplate doing that.

    Even this year, how can teams like Galway and Kerry take the whole thing serious? It's a laughable competition.


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    #107
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users Posts: 10,857 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Now, the AI is a different matter, the rules there will remain consistent or the organisation will crumble from within.

    Huh? They've shuffled and changed the championship constantly in the last couple of decades, it's unrecognisable from the pre back door days. What would have to happen for the gaa to somehow "crumble from within"? Because consistent rules around the championship haven't existed for about twenty years at this stage.


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    #108
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    Huh? They've shuffled and changed the championship constantly in the last couple of decades, it's unrecognisable from the pre back door days. What would have to happen for the gaa to somehow "crumble from within"? Because consistent rules around the championship haven't existed for about twenty years at this stage.

    I think you've missed the key point here.

    They changed the rules after the event. Take soccer, if a team win promotion to the premier league, and then they say, 'we're changing the rules now lads.. no promotion this year'. Only in the GAA could such a shambles occur.


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    #109
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I think you've missed the key point here.

    They changed the rules after the event. Take soccer, if a team win promotion to the premier league, and then they say, 'we're changing the rules now lads.. no promotion this year'. Only in the GAA could such a shambles occur.

    Ahem.
    Liverpool and the Champions League qualification


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    #110
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭blue note


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I think you've missed the key point here.

    They changed the rules after the event. Take soccer, if a team win promotion to the premier league, and then they say, 'we're changing the rules now lads.. no promotion this year'. Only in the GAA could such a shambles occur.

    Except the Ireland soccer team and world cup qualification?

    It was 5 or 6 years ago though. It doesn't matter any more.


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    #111
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    blue note wrote: »
    Except the Ireland soccer team and world cup qualification?

    It was 5 or 6 years ago though. It doesn't matter any more.

    what happened there ?


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    #112
    Kavrocks
    Registered Users Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Kavrocks


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I think you've missed the key point here.
    I think you just want to rant and moan now.


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    #113
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭blue note


    Rightwing wrote: »
    what happened there ?

    They decided to seed the playoff qualification because it looked like several of the bigger teams might not qualify.


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    #114
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    blue note wrote: »
    They decided to seed the playoff qualification because it looked like several of the bigger teams might not qualify.

    Indeed, I remember now, ....TV money. Was that for the euros or WCup?

    I agree that was a disgrace,


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    #115
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users Posts: 10,857 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I think you've missed the key point here.

    They changed the rules after the event. Take soccer, if a team win promotion to the premier league, and then they say, 'we're changing the rules now lads.. no promotion this year'. Only in the GAA could such a shambles occur.

    I agree that changing the league structure after the fact like that was a disgrace, a year notice period should be needed before changes are made. But that isn't the same as saying the structures have to be consistent. Regarding the championship, what teams could potentially be excluded from the top tier competition, such that changing the rules would cause the association to "crumble from within"? (My point being that as things stand it is if anything too inclusive, no major hurling county would ever likely be excluded from it. And when it comes down to it, those countries never give a rambling damn about the weaker counties. In fact, nobody gives a toss about any county except themselves which is why the league and championship are such a mess as it is, caving to various vested interests)


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    #116
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    I agree that changing the league structure after the fact like that was a disgrace, a year notice period should be needed before changes are made. But that isn't the same as saying the structures have to be consistent. Regarding the championship, what teams could potentially be excluded from the top tier competition, such that changing the rules would cause the association to "crumble from within"? (My point being that as things stand it is if anything too inclusive, no major hurling county would ever likely be excluded from it. And when it comes down to it, those countries never give a rambling damn about the weaker counties. In fact, nobody gives a toss about any county except themselves which is why the league and championship are such a mess as it is, caving to various vested interests)

    Consistent as in...let's say Tipp won the hurling AI via the back door in 2016, then the GAA turned around after the final and said, no team from the back door can with the AI in 2016. Their credibility would be shot. This is effectively what they did to the league, but it didn't really matter 'cos it was just the league'.


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    #117
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users Posts: 10,857 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Consistent as in...let's say Tipp won the hurling AI via the back door in 2016, then the GAA turned around after the final and said, no team from the back door can with the AI in 2016. Their credibility would be shot. This is effectively what they did to the league, but it didn't really matter 'cos it was just the league'.

    They actually did the opposite with that stupid quarter final thing. You can win through the back door of 1b and still be in 1b the next year. It's a joke of a setup, the kind of "vested interest over best interests of the sport" that the association specialises in.


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    #118
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    They actually did the opposite with that stupid quarter final thing. You can win through the back door of 1b and still be in 1b the next year. It's a joke of a setup, the kind of "vested interest over best interests of the sport" that the association specialises in.

    Absolutely.

    Ideally the hurling league would have the top 8 teams in it and be played over the summer and the winner wins the GAA's main prize.

    Kilkenny v Offaly (after Kerry beating them) What an attractive qtr-final !


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    #119
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 38,074 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Absolutely.

    Ideally the hurling league would have the top 8 teams in it and be played over the summer and the winner wins the GAA's main prize.

    Kilkenny v Offaly (after Kerry beating them) What an attractive qtr-final !
    it was very close to being a Kilkenny vs Kerry QF. that would be a joke as Kerry are not at that standard yet but with this system Kerry could end up back in Division 2A (if laois had of just wasted time and got a draw against Wexford then Kerry would be in the QFs)


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    #120
    Speak Now
    Registered Users Posts: 8,541 ✭✭✭Speak Now


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    it was very close to being a Kilkenny vs Kerry QF. that would be a joke as Kerry are not at that standard yet but with this system Kerry could end up back in Division 2A (if laois had of just wasted time and got a draw against Wexford then Kerry would be in the QFs)

    It would have been Kerry v Waterford if Laois had held out.


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    #121
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    it was very close to being a Kilkenny vs Kerry QF. that would be a joke as Kerry are not at that standard yet but with this system Kerry could end up back in Division 2A (if laois had of just wasted time and got a draw against Wexford then Kerry would be in the QFs)

    I'd fancy Laois to beat kerry, but then kerry would go into another playoff to meet the winners of the division below, pathetic. Seems like they just want to give teams extra games before the championship to try out players etc


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