Transgender women stoned in Germany

Whosthis

thattequilagirl wrote: »

So, to clarify your position, discrimination against LGBT is bad, but discrimination against Muslims is fine?

I can only imagine the level of internal conflict conservative right wingers experience when they hear of a muslim on lgbt attack.

thattequilagirl

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Ehm No ? Nice straw man you pulled there I said it is right to criticize Islam and its illiberal nature. I am attacking it as a belief system.

When you talk about "Muslims", you are talking about a grouping of people. When you talk about Islam, you're talking about a belief system. You use them interchangeably, which creates confusion about what you're really attacking.

20Cent

Someone posted the police report in German earlier in the thread. Anyone able to read it?

BigJackC

Police and media actively try to cover up their crimes. Why wouldn't they act like they were still in the middle east when there's rarely any repercussions?

Whosthis

20Cent wrote: »

Someone posted the police report in German earlier in the thread. Anyone able to read it?

That was me, google translate didn't do a great job. I think its probably written in a German shorthand so google can't accurately translate it.

xband

One of the weirdest impacts of this in France has been a rise in LGBT support for Le Pen.

It's rather ironic as her party has historically been extremely homophobic but, particularly after a string of murders in Bordeaux back in 2005, there was a fairly significant growth in support for the far right.

Personally, I think FN and Le Pen are some of the most unpleasant people you could possibly elect, but they're right wing populists and European voters tend to turn to parties like these when they feel under threat.

I'm very concerned at the moment that mainstream politics is playing with fire in Germany on this issue. It has a horrific extreme right, problems with neo nazism and xenophobia and a very scary historical precedent that isn't that long ago but nobody likes to talk about.

The policies being pursued at present don't seem sustainable. Yes, it's very important that rich countires do something to support and refugees, but it needs to be a managed, rational response.

As mad as it seems, I think Germany thinks a lot with its heart. The notion of it being this perfectly rational society doesn't hold true. It has a history of making extremely rash, emotionally led policy jumps every so often that have caused major problems.

I would argue they've even largely prolonged the Eurozone crisis by a totally irrational fear of inflation that's driven by their Weimar Republic hyperinflation national memory.

Shutting down all nuclear power in the aftermath of Fukushima without any sensible plan for replacing it which has driven energy costs way up and relaunched a lot of dependence on coal and Russian gas ...

The current refugee policy also seems to be emotionally driven. Yes, we absolutely need to help. But, just throwing open the border doesn't seem like a very rational way of doing it.

How exactly will Germany integrate 1m + people a year? Or even house them?

You're getting into a situation where people arriving with a notion that Germany is super wealthy and that they'll suddenly be able to have a middle class lifestyle are being faced with the reality - accommodation is in emergency shelters like coverted warehouses, prefab container cities, that work isn't easy to get if you don't speak German, that it has extremely cold winters which are horrible with bad heating, that the culture isn't really all that open to immigration and there's a racist undertone etc etc

Then you've had no active integration of incoming immigrants so, you've possibly just brought in a ton of angry, disorientated guys who are slipping into thuggish gang mode and then enhanced that by ghettoising them while plonking then in big cities with nothing to do.

Anyway, without going on a huge rant here. I would consider myself liberal and left wing but I think you have to be practical about how you approach a situation like this and I don't think the German administration has been.

This movement of people is a huge, huge deal and it's one of the biggest displacements of people since WWII.

It's going to have social implications. We can pretend or won't have or we can be practical and deal deal with them and plan properly.

Maybe it might make more sense to decide to put a multi billion euro action plan into trying to create temporary housing for them near to Syria and then helping them to take the country back when it stabilises ?

I'm not sure that just depopulating Syria is necessarily much of a long term solution either. It's going to create an exiled diaspora.

The whole Middle East crisis, ISIS and so on has just been allowed by everyone involved to just blow up into a total disaster. It needs to be urgently gotten under control.

Also the wealthy, oil rich neighbours seem to be not doing a tap and leaving the whole rescue of millions of people up to the European Union, which is absolutely ridiculously unneighbourly.

They have a huge role to play but aren't playing it.

Maybe it's time for an oil solidarity tarrif??

MRnotlob606

thattequilagirl wrote: »

When you talk about "Muslims", you are talking about a grouping of people. When you talk about Islam, you're talking about a belief system. You use them interchangeably, which creates confusion about what you're really attacking.

They have the freedom to worship their religion in Ireland.I respect that. But I have the freedom to criticize their belief system. That summarizes my position.

Islam used to be a religion that promoted Science, Philosophy, Architecture and Mathematics. But then the outlook changed towards the time we reached the renaissance and Islam returned to the Dark Ages. Its a fact. In 2005 Harvard University had a greater research footprint than the whole Arab world.

These are the ground I'm attacking it on.

20Cent

Whosthis wrote: »

That was me, google translate didn't do a great job. I think its probably written in a German shorthand so google can't accurately translate it.

Bet they had an argument and the guys threw some gravel at them.
Israeli journalist decides to describe that as a stoning.

kupus

xband wrote: »

One of the weirdest impacts of this in France has been a rise in LGBT support for Le Pen.

its not weird at all, its a natural reacation to turn to safe shelter no matter where or what it is.
Its the flight or fight response that evolution has ingrained in every human in the world.

And if you are lgbt dont be afraid to go to the right, not everybody there is a knuckle dragging apes that liberal media tends to portray them as.

Eugene Norman

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I'm not talking about the past. Today in Irish schools being gay is a reason to be bullied/beaten up.

Violence by Westerners against the LGBT community is not a thing of the past.

If that happens it's illegal. I'd like to see the stats for the prevalence of it.

In most Islamic countries homosexuality is illegal and in many punishable by death. Your entire argument is spurious whataboutary.

Eugene Norman

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

WTF is going on here?

Are a bunch of knuckle dragging sister loving rednecks from the Trump camp doing an online international tour of duty or something?

FFS.

That's a generalised ad hominem. Not very constructive. My own politics is far left economically as a quick search will show but then I see support of mass immigration as a right wing ideology. It is after all encouraged by the economist and the WSJ. And other pro capitalist rags.

20Cent

This article has it all.
Anti Muslim, racism and a jab at "the left" / liberals.

Word to the wise, when a story contains all your prejudices it's probably propaganda.

xband

kupus wrote: »

its not weird at all, its a natural reacation to turn to safe shelter no matter where or what it is.
Its the flight or fight response that evolution has ingrained in every human in the world.

And if you are lgbt dont be afraid to go to the right, not everybody there is a knuckle dragging apes that liberal media tends to portray them as.

The issue is that a few years that party was very openly homophobic and most likely a still harbours a lot of that.

They're absolutely not a logical choice for gay people. They're just being populist and playing to "fear of the other" as usual.

thattequilagirl

Eugene Norman wrote: »

In most Islamic countries homosexuality is illegal and in many punishable by death. Your entire argument is spurious whataboutary.

Of 50+ Muslim majority countries there are 5 where homosexuality is punishable by death. That's five too many, but your claim that in many it is punishable by death is untrue.

bruno1x

thattequilagirl wrote: »

The non-tabloid media was unwilling to run the story while facts were scarce and speculation was rife.

But, But , But it can't be true, we have been so nice to these immigrants, we welcome them into our country, and give them access to benefits. It must be those beastly right wingers making up lies.
- a typical bleeding heart, white guilt suffering, self loathing liberal.

thattequilagirl

bruno1x wrote: »

But, But , But it can't be true, we have been so nice to these immigrants, we welcome them into our country, and give them access to benefits. It must be those beastly right wingers making up lies.
- a typical bleeding heart, white guilt suffering, self loathing liberal.

Can anyone explain how I can block this user's posts from my iPhone?

bruno1x

thattequilagirl wrote: »

Can anyone explain how I can block this user's posts from my iPhone?

Boom! Head shot.
When you don't like the truth, censor it.

Irishmale0399

20Cent wrote: »

Someone posted the police report in German earlier in the thread. Anyone able to read it?

I have just read it..... here is a very quick overview....

Attach took place on the 10 Jan. at approx 2:50am...
2 men (50 & 37 years old, living as women) were followed and attacked by 3 (16,17,18 years old) young men who spoke and insulted them in Arabic. One of the attached men answered in Arabic at which point the young lads attached them....picking up stones from a garden, throwing them at them. It also came to a physical fight where the attacked acuse the young men of pulling their hair and feeling or pulling at their breasts........
18 year old is known to the police, has been remanded in custody and appeared infront of a judge, 17 year old is also known to police was taken into custody but has since been released. The 16 year old was charged and returned to his parents.

Furthermore a approx. 1 hour later a young woman (25 years old) was sexually harrassed whilst leaving/walking close to the main train station by a group of men of North African descend. She ignored them, walked along and was followed by a smaller man approx. 30 years old....he asked her is she would accept money for sex...and is quoted as saying...."..he is new to Germany and would assume that German woman are there for sex."
The young ladies blouse was damaged as this man forced his hands under it as well as into her trousers. Luckily the young lady could make a safe get away and contact the police. They are currently (at the time of the article being published) searching for the accused and are looking for help from members of the public.

jmayo

thattequilagirl wrote: »

So, if a Muslim upbringing is the reason for this crime, what is to blame for white-on-white LGBT attacks?

I'm delighted we passed the referendum, but people have short memories. Homosexual acts were illegal in Ireland until the early 90s. LGBT kids (and adults) all over the world and across pretty much all cultures have been and are today the victims of bullying and discrimination up to and including violence. It's sad that this is the case, but trying to portray it as a Muslim problem is disingenuous- it's a human problem.

Ah yes the whataboutery so cherished by the pro migrants
.
I don't know why I bothered but was listening to that old crow finucane on radio 1.
Her and her stacked panel were still pedalling the Syrian refugee line and even having a go Canada for proposing no single males between 18 & 28.

The_Kew_Tour

thattequilagirl wrote: »

Of course they should. All crimes of this nature should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Here's the thing: Muslims make up about 1/6th of the population of the world - are we going to start a new thread every time one of them commits a crime.

I guarantee you somewhere in the world right now an Irish guy is being tried for assault or rape. Should we all be tarred with that brush?

No, but who is tarnishing Muslims with same brush?

xband

Bear in mind that an element of the Christian extreme right also tends to be incredibly homophobic.

Take a look at Uganda's recent attempts to attack gay people with some of the most draconian laws you could imagine, including life in prison and the death penalty. Thankfully their constitutional court blocked it but only on a narrow technicality.

(Uganda is 85%+ Christian)

There's a foaming-at-the-mouth extreme homophobia in both of those religions. It just more likely to come to the fore in the Middle East due to religious law being used as civil law in some countries.

It's not that long ago that Europe was extremely homophobic and also parts of Eastern Europe and Russia still are. Ok, not remotely as extreme as state sanctioned death penalties but still pretty nasty.

I'm not saying that to excuse the behaviour, I'm just saying it's more of a feature of extremely twisted thinking whatever the ideological excuses used and it needs to be stamped out.

I won't accept a religious excuse for attempting to ignore very hard faught for rights that - women's rights, LGBT rights, children's rights, rights to freedom of conscience etc etc

It's not "left wing" to ignore those issues because they clash with a narrow-minded, narrowly interpreted, dogmatic religious view of the world that inflicts harm on others.

There's a lot of jumping to a position where we can't criticise religious extremist for fear of offending.

I'm getting a bit fed up with people labelling left wing social liberals as somehow responsible for this.

The issue is more to do with extreme political correctness, actually a feature of the both right and left.

Try critiquing the Christian Right at a Republican Party convention or any Conservative party event and you'll see how open minded to discussion the political right are !

You need the ability to discuss issues without having any sacred cow topics. That is actually what liberalism should be focused on.

And before Ireland gets on its high horse:

Blasphemy Law - introduced in 2009 !!??!!

The_Kew_Tour

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

The only reason they printed this was it was an attack carried out by Muslims. You see anything else on that paper about regular attacks in Germany that don't involve Muslims ? Their sole agenda is that Islam is bad, Muslims are bad. Muslim refugees = ISIS. That's the only message that article has. It's not in any way shape or form anything to do with being tolerant or respectful of other people or anti violence.

While it shouldn't be brushed under the carpet from a European perspective we also need to looking at it from a European perspective not get outraged over biased ****e like that paper printing anything to do with violence from Muslims and then throwing "ISIS" into the equation to try stir up an anti Muslim sentiment.

Or maybe

They're was no other attacks in city that night?

You now suggest that they make up a story saying a Christian raped somebody just to have bit of balance which is BS

We all know that they're plenty of rapists in Western Europe already, it's had impact in my distant family, so I I'm not saying it's just a Muslim thing.

Thing is when rapist is caught here they're far different rules then when other nationalities do it.

jmayo

kupus wrote: »

its not weird at all, its a natural reacation to turn to safe shelter no matter where or what it is.
Its the flight or fight response that evolution has ingrained in every human in the world.

And if you are lgbt dont be afraid to go to the right, not everybody there is a knuckle dragging apes that liberal media tends to portray them as.

The far right is actually going to become more centrist what with level of non far right supporters it is beginning to gather.
Meanwhile the left is disappearing up it's own hole.

PC Lackey

Its all fun and games til youre wearing a bin liner.

The Backwards Man

bruno1x wrote: »

But,But,But I'm a special little snowflake, i have done all the SJW workshops in my area, everyone in these groups agrees I'm correct.
The public at large don't know what they are taking about, we need a Europe without borders then we can take in all those who want to come here from around the world, it will be fantastic.
- average liberal

For someone purporting to be a stalwart for the LGBT community against the evil Muslim horde, you have a rather unusual bedside manner.:)

Nodin

bruno1x wrote: »

But,But,But I'm a special little snowflake, i have done all the SJW workshops in my area, everyone in these groups agrees I'm correct.
The public at large don't know what they are taking about, we need a Europe without borders then we can take in all those who want to come here from around the world, it will be fantastic.
- average liberal

You seem to have quite a lot of rage for people that only exist in your imagination.

Thelomen Toblackai

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Or maybe

They're was no other attacks in city that night?

You now suggest that they make up a story saying a Christian raped somebody just to have bit of balance which is BS

We all know that they're plenty of rapists in Western Europe already, it's had impact in my distant family, so I I'm not saying it's just a Muslim thing.

Thing is when rapist is caught here they're far different rules then when other nationalities do it.

It was a simple question, are there any other articles about assaults in Germany that don't feature Muslims on that paper? The answer is no. Because they are not interested in attacks in Germany or transgender people. They are interested in Muslim attacks in Germany on anyone.

I'm amazed at how far you're willing to go to try claim the Jerusalem Post posted that story of Muslims attacking transgender people in Germany because they are concerned for the safety of transgender people or the general safety of Germans.

There is a conversation to be had about how Muslim immigrants are integrating into western society and how Islam as a religion contrasts with the rights people in western society have clawed back from Christianity in recent times. But the Jerusalem Posts "Muslims are bad, Muslim migrants are ISIS they're raping and stoning everyone they get their hands on" isn't part of any intelligent discussion.

Azalea

Last year I noticed a lot of the same people who are against immigration of all refugees, including the ones sleeping in a ditch or on a road with their families they were that desperate, were also opposed to same-sex marriage and dismissed transgender people as freaks.

#justsayin

dd972

Have they legalised Cannabis there then...

Joke being nine pages too late

xband

You've a *big* problem brewing though if you start to go down the road of European xenophobic right vs immigrant communities.

It needs to be dialled down and problems dealt with by police.

The problem now is that every incident, regardless of what the cause is, will add flames to the fire.

It's not a liberal agenda but, I think elements of the extreme right in Europe are every bit as dangerous as Islamic extremists.

That Norwegian psychopath springs to mind.

Europe has a problem with neonazism and similar mentalities and they are always there just below the surface.

The politicians need to calm this down and prevent it blowing out of proportion.

That might mean heavier policing and seen to be enforcing law around human rights - sends a good message both directions!

The worst possible thing you can do is attempt to sweep issues under the carpet and just let it slide or on the orher side overreact and cause "collective punishment" fears in immigrant communities.

This needs sensible handling not a bunch of political opportunists and populists like Le Pen or Trump stirring the pot!