Transgender women stoned in Germany

Saipanne

There are no possible negative consequences of allowing millions of people into Europe from regions where their culture is significantly different to ours.

Nothing to see here.

Thelomen Toblackai

MarkAnthony wrote: »

What's scary to me (I relaise this is starting to go in circles) is you and 22catch, 511, aligator_am, Armchair Andy, BigJackC, bluewolf, Cessna_Pilot, citrus burst, Corpus Twisty, Crimsonforce, Dick phelan, edgecutter, fedor.2., HalloweenJack, hmmm, Irish_rat, jmayo, jsa112, kupus, lightspeed, Lone Stone, MRnotlob606, No Opinion, pablomakaveli, Pac1Man, patsfan1286, Penny Tration, rainbow kirby, RDM_83 again, Sierra 117, Simi, speedboatchase, steve_r, sugarman, super_furry, TaosHum, Todd Toddington III, Twiki, VickieVexed1, wendell borton, Wibbs, Wiggles88 and probably other by the time I click post, don't understand the nuance of what BreadnBuddha was actually saying...

These attacks go on every day, perpetrated by all sorts of people. The sensationalist part is the anti-immigration agenda being put forward in many cases.

Now that's not to say there aren't massive issues to deal with, but if we could all engage our brains in relation to potential media manipulation, that'd be great!

In fairness on the face of it it's easy to miss how biased the article actually is and the specifics of BreadnBuddha 's post given how often these days attacks are reported and someone tries to write it off as racist, anti Muslim etc.

I'd hope most of those thanks are reactionary rather than agreement BreadnBuddha was trying to "Sweep the attack under the carpet" by pointing out The Jerusalem Post is in fact an incredibly biased source when it comes to reports on Muslims and interested in one thing and one thing only. Perpetuating anti Muslim sentiment.

20Cent

The Jeruselem post are interested in making Muslims look as bad as possible. Every incident must be exaggerated and hyped. That way there will be less criticism of Israel next time the bomb the crap out of Palestine.

suicide_circus

Saipanne wrote: »

There are no possible negative consequences of allowing millions of people into Europe from regions where their culture is significantly different to ours.

Nothing to see here.

And if you foresee such issues, it's probably because you are a massive racist.

Case closed.

Nodin

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Here you go:
https://www.rt.com/news/328628-german-police-officer-refugees/
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151007/1028179977/German-Officials-Hide-Refugees-Crimes.html
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160109/1032871195/german-police-orders-refugee-silence.html

So Glorious Leader Putin, who is sexy man. Grand then so, I believe ye.

MarkAnthony

mynameis905 wrote: »

See, I have a better idea. We stop importing people with vastly different and largely incompatible belief systems than our own and stop the 'massive issues' from arising in the first place. Every country has its own share of rapes, murders and bigotry but why add to them by allowing mass immigration from Arab regions where homophobia, bigotry and misogyny are woven into the very fabric of their society and enshrined in the batshít crazy text that is the koran?

See being English and Protestant I was brought up with similar attitudes (thankfully minor influences of the occasional dickhead) towards a group of people not living too far away from me at the time. Then I moved over and realised that perhaps it was a small minority of people that had very backwards attitudes towards women, gays and black people.

I think we all know that minority are taxi drivers. :pac:

weisses

Nodin wrote: »

By not being a racist, bigot or xenophobe.

Is being labelled one the same as actually being one ? ... That's the point.

weisses

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Carefully.

That PC tactic was/is used for years ...And it doesn't work

Nodin

weisses wrote: »

Is being labelled one the same as actually being one ? ... That's the point.

Quite often, yes.

Irishmale0399

Nodin wrote: »

So Glorious Leader Putin, who is sexy man. Grand then so, I believe ye.

OK maybe you speak German:
https://jungefreiheit.de/politik/deutschland/2016/polizisten-berichten-asyl-kriminalitaet-wird-systematisch-vertuscht/

http://www.n-tv.de/politik/Straftaten-unter-Fluechtlingen-vertuscht-article16147991.html

http://www.epochtimes.de/politik/deutschland/verschlusssache-polizei-vertuscht-straftaten-von-asylanten-geheimhaltung-a1279527.html

https://www.unzensuriert.at/content/0019081-Kiel-Polizei-vertuscht-Straftaten-von-Asylanten

Saipanne

Nodin wrote: »

Quite often, yes.

Anyone who opposes the influx of millions of people from lands where women are cattle and homosexuality is punishable by a cruel death is clearly a racist.

We must trust Frau Merkel and her master plan. All will be well.

Any news reports of attacks by said refugees on the European populace is clearly biased.

Welcome to Europe.

suicide_circus

weisses wrote: »

Is being labelled one the same as actually being one ? ... That's the point.

When you're being labeled a racist by someone with a long and well documented history of using that particular smear as often as possible, it kind of loses its sting.

Nodin

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

OK maybe you speak German:

Google translate gives a rough idea, and it says nothing about not arresting people.

weisses

Nodin wrote: »

Quite often, yes.

Then that is something we disagree on .....

Take this site as example ...Racism bigotry etc is not tolerated but the amount of bans stands in no comparison as to people being labelled racists etc ....

Irishmale0399

Nodin wrote: »

Google translate gives a rough idea, and it says nothing about not arresting people.

May I ask in which country you live and how many refugees you have come into contact with in the last 6 months???

On another note....what would you do/say if your neighbour..
was beating his wife??
dealing drugs infront of the house??
stealing from your clothes line??
cheating the dole/social system??

Eugene Norman

Nodin wrote: »

By not being a racist, bigot or xenophobe.

But the guy being responded to was asking how he could engage in genuine criticism of the refugees were it warranted. You've pretty much proven that, at least to you, that can't be done

Eugene Norman

MarkAnthony wrote: »

See being English and Protestant I was brought up with similar attitudes (thankfully minor influences of the occasional dickhead) towards a group of people not living too far away from me at the time. Then I moved over and realised that perhaps it was a small minority of people that had very backwards attitudes towards women, gays and black people.

I think we all know that minority are taxi drivers. :pac:

why black people? In any case English bigotry towards Ireland and its continuing anti-Catholicism have long historical roots. Not so with Ireland and Islam. It's quite possible you know that opposition to Islamic immigration is actually a defence of liberalism and not just based on sectarianism or racism. Islam is a pretty fcuked up religion right now and right now is where we are.

MarkAnthony

weisses wrote: »

That PC tactic was/is used for years ...And it doesn't work

I've not suggested being PC, I've suggested being careful. Stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason; all one needs to understand is that they're also stereotypes.

All the vast, vast majority of the refugees into Europe want is to not have their brains blowout, to work hard and build a better life for themselves. The problem with some people already in europe is they don't want to work as hard, and that's where the problems lie.

Who would you rather having living next door? Paddy Murphy who's never worked a day in his life, who's horse ****s all over the estate or Muhammed Hussain who works a 50 hour week - pays his taxes, who's kids are respectful and polite and who's major difference is he bobs up and down singing to the magic sky man rather than gets on his knees and mumbles.

While I, and hopefully you, realise it's more nuanced than that. There are plenty who dont.

MarkAnthony

Eugene Norman wrote: »

why black people? In any case English bigotry towards Ireland and its continuing anti-Catholicism have long historical roots. Not so with Ireland and Islam. It's quite possible you know that opposition to Islamic immigration is actually a defence of liberalism and not just based on sectarianism or racism. Islam is a pretty fcuked up religion right now and right now is where we are.

Granted, bigotry is everywhere.

Granted Islam, taken to extremes is pretty ****ed up. So is Christianity (full stop) although some branches do tend to be a bit more fooked up than others.

I think the takeaway from all this is it's complicated - innit. Anyone suggesting a simple solution is probably well just as simple.

Eugene Norman

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I've not suggested being PC, I've suggested being careful. Stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason; all one needs to understand is that they're also stereotypes.

All the vast, vast majority of the refugees into Europe want is to not have their brains blowout, to work hard and build a better life for themselves. The problem with some people already in europe is they don't want to work as hard, and that's where the problems lie.

Who would you rather having living next door? Paddy Murphy who's never worked a day in his life, who's horse ****s all over the estate or Muhammed Hussain who works a 50 hour week - pays his taxes, who's kids are respectful and polite and who's major difference is he bobs up and down singing to the magic sky man rather than gets on his knees and mumbles.

While I, and hopefully you, realise it's more nuanced than that. There are plenty who dont.

It's funny how a lot of pro-immigration comes with its own bigotry. For every person opining the refugees are lazy there's quite a few claiming the locals are lazy.

BigJackC

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I've not suggested being PC, I've suggested being careful. Stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason; all one needs to understand is that they're also stereotypes.

All the vast, vast majority of the refugees into Europe want is to not have their brains blowout, to work hard and build a better life for themselves. The problem with some people already in europe is they don't want to work as hard, and that's where the problems lie.

Who would you rather having living next door? Paddy Murphy who's never worked a day in his life, who's horse ****s all over the estate or Muhammed Hussain who works a 50 hour week - pays his taxes, who's kids are respectful and polite and who's major difference is he bobs up and down singing to the magic sky man rather than gets on his knees and mumbles.

While I, and hopefully you, realise it's more nuanced than that. There are plenty who dont.

Here's a young woman's experience working with "refugees" in Germany. It's originally in German but I've used google translate. It does a decent job, for once.

The refugee crisis is intensifying. Also in Hamburg accommodations, the situation is obviously extremely difficult - in the "Welt am Sonntag" reported an anonymous employees * about their daily lives.

"Since the autumn of 2015 I have been working full-time and permanent employees in a Hamburger initial reception center for refugees. In this job I had applied explicitly, that was exactly what I wanted to do. When I finally had the commitment it in my mailbox, I I am madly happy about it, and finally I was able to not only help in theory, but also really convenient to do something for the refugees.

Accordingly, I went also in high spirits on my first day in the initial reception; I was naturally excited, clear, one is always on the first working day in the new job, but otherwise it has me as much. The colleagues were committed and very nice, with the refugees because I had still no direct contact, but I greeted enthusiastically in the area and found the all great.

"That is certainly true super here", I thought to myself. In the next few days, I then threw myself totally motivated to work. Which should take place with up to 1,500 refugees who were housed there. I was responsible for their counseling services, should therefore be the contact for all social problems of refugees, support them in their asylum procedure or mooring medical appointments when they needed that.

Well, and then the first refugees came to my office, where I wanted to stop the counseling services - and I have already after the first few visits noted by them that my very positive and idealistic notion of them and their behavior nevertheless clear from the different reality. Of course you may generalizations about all refugees under any circumstances, there are many of them who are very friendly to be very grateful, very willingly integration, very happy here. But if I'm honest, then the collaboration with 90 percent of those who I meet, rather unpleasant and unfortunately not so, as I thought that before.

First, many of them are extremely demanding. Come to me and demand that I right now an apartment and a fancy car and most also still the same a really good job procure them, because I would have to yes, but I'm sitting there and they are indeed now times arrived. If I reject this and instead try to explain to them that you can not, then they are often noisy and sometimes very aggressive.An Afghan has only recently threatened that he would kill himself. And a few Syrians and a group of Afghans have declared that they will go on hunger strike until I'd help them to move to another place. One originally from the Arab colleague of mine they have times really yelled "We behead you!". Because of these and other things the police had several times a week with us.

Second, they often make very unreliable information. They come to me, their papers have there and then tell a story that may not entirely agree. But they continue to believe and I can then be only sure when I talked with my colleagues about it and then often say that the person was on the day before already been with them and since everything was telling a little bit different. There was, for example, a resident who came with his deportation notice to me and wanted to know what would happen now. I have explained it to him, he then went. Soon after he came to my colleague and suddenly showed completely new identity documents to a different name and said he was the man with the different name.He was then no longer recognized, but only moved to another camp.

Third, they rarely stick to agreements. I am doing also specifies the doctor's appointments for the refugees. All of them must be a basic examination go through, that is, through the X-ray, a vaccine and a general check-up. But many of them still want to other doctors, especially to a dentist or orthopedic surgeon.Then I make appointments for them, but if the date is there, they just do not show up. This happens so often that doctors now have already asked us not fasten as many appointments - but what am I supposed to do? I can not simply reject the request for an appointment, just because I suspect that the petitioner could not then appear.

And fourth, and that's for me the worst: Some of the refugees behave indiskutabel us towards women. It is well known that it is primarily single men who come to us, about 65 percent or even 70 percent, I would sometimes personally appreciate that. They are all still young, only around 20, more than 25 years old.

And part of that do not respect us women. You take it out, that we are there, that they have indeed, but they take us not serious at all. If I tell a woman something or want to give them a statement, then they hardly listen to me, do it immediately as unimportant and then call just once to a male colleague. For us women, they often only contemptuous glances left - or intrusive. Whistle a loud afterward, call a then something in a foreign language according to what I and most of my colleagues do not understand, laughing. This is really very unpleasant. It's even happened once that one with the smartphone have photographed. Just like that, without asking, even if one has protested. And finally, I'm gone up a slightly steeper stairs. Since I have some run by the men behind, went up the steps behind me and they laughed all the time and - I suspect - talking about me and shouted at me.

So I will actually really only the termination. But I have always ruled out for me; I like my colleagues very much, the refugee children also. And I was previously so convinced of the job and of the whole thing in itself - because it is very difficult to admit that this is all just a little different from what you have imagined. And the dismissal would of course precisely this admission. Meanwhile, I still think concretely about it. Many colleagues also want to announce. Because they do not take it anymore, because they can not bear to see how wrong it all going on here and that they can not help it. And if I'm honest: I do not think it is made ".

.welt. de/ print/wams/hamburg/article151089911/Ich-halte-es-nicht-mehr-aus. html

I don't want such people in Europe and this "only a few bad apples" spiel from you people is beginning to get extremely tiresome.

Eugene Norman

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Granted, bigotry is everywhere.

Granted Islam, taken to extremes is pretty ****ed up. So is Christianity (full stop) although some branches do tend to be a bit more fooked up than others.

I think the takeaway from all this is it's complicated - innit. Anyone suggesting a simple solution is probably well just as simple.

Well it's not that complicated. You just don't have to go along with ideas of open border fanatics and open all borders regardless. There were laws about refugees that Merkel ignored. She now has to house 1M refugees. Many culturally incompatible. Much of Europe has a continuing unemployment problem, acute in many cases. And you can have a positive net immigration system with selective immigration rules - an Australian points system.

Of course the yanks could also stop destabilising the region.

gctest50

Eugene Norman wrote: »

..... Islam is a pretty fcuked up religion right now and right now is where we are.

That's nothing - have you heard about the other religion where they starve kids and throw their bodies in the sewers ?

they're called christians or something

RollieFingers

Any chance of Ireland copping onto itself and not letting this shower in? Sexual assaults, assaults, intimidation, demands to be given big houses and nice cars! Pull the other one lads, what would happen if a non-Muslim went to their countries and started making these demands?

Azalea

gctest50 wrote: »

That's nothing - have you heard about the other religion where they starve kids and throw their bodies in the sewers ?

they're called christians or something

Ah come on...

Saipanne

gctest50 wrote: »

That's nothing - have you heard about the other religion where they starve kids and throw their bodies in the sewers ?

they're called christians or something

Ergo, nothing to see here. Open the borders, lads!

gctest50

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Of course the yanks could also stop destabilising the region.

Unlikely - more minerals and nice things like that in that side of the world than anything

24 trillion worth in the Congo - war going on there for decades

5 million+++ killed because of same

that's the price of our smartphones

A Primal Nut

Whosthis wrote: »

I notice you've edited my post to fit your own agenda. I have no problem reading truths, if you check back over my posts in this thread I've never once claimed there was inaccuracies. What I did question was their relevance to what happened in Dortmund.

Also, do you really believe that a Jewish Israeli newspaper is not pushing an anti-muslim agenda?

There are plenty of Jewish Israeli news sources that are often sympathetic to the Palestinian cause:

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.697788

Azalea

Too much absolutism on both sides. Nonsense like "Christianity is as bad and let's not talk about the sexual assaults being by Muslims because that'll look racist but it's fine to say when sexual assaults are by whites, especially priests, and 'we' in the west can't throw stones" versus "They're all a bunch of rapists and terrorists - every one of them, even the kids; what daesh are doing is horrific and their poor victims but no to helping their victims, I'm not allowed talk about the problems either as I'll be called racist by the liberal loonies even though I'm talking about the problems non stop, as are countless others; all Muslims subscribe to the extremism."

Are there any views somewhere in the middle? I'm finding these difficult to spot.

Irishmale0399

Quick question in the round......

How many of you would be willing to take in a refugee* or 2 when they arrive in Ireland and give the poor lads a roof over their heads???
Additionally...how many of you are willing to pay an additional tax or one off payment to finance their stay in Europe???

*going by the statistic that most are single men aged 18-35