New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121855884#Comment_121855884

Well to be fair Van Pelt did a great job with Flacco last season.

paulie21

Hunter Henry re-signing

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866294#Comment_121866294

Hopefully he does better and Van Pelt has a good history of getting a lot out of tight ends. Remember Njoku last season?

Mr. Guappa

Mac Jones to the Jags for a 6th round pick.

I'll be shocked if it's not a QB at #3 overall.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121875065#Comment_121875065

I was hopeful when Mayo got the job but I'm losing faith very quickly.

Firstly there was the digs about Belichick. Then the talk of a whole new setup. If you are doing something like that then do it and if it works out then talk about it. The guys I hear talking in advance of what they are going to change normally fail. If they take a QB at 3 then I'll lose all faith in them.before we even get near training camp.

There's only two proper options at 3, they are to take Harrison or trade out of the position.

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121875065#Comment_121875065

I wouldn't do it, build for another year or two around a bridge QB, maybe Brisett fancies coming back, and then get a QB in a couple years when we're ready.

ELM327

Keep and play with Zappe next year. Trade out of 3 and pick Alt at 6-9. Harrison is another good shout but I'd prefer to trade back.

We're not winning next year anyway so no need for a crap shoot QB at the top of the draft. Build the team. The rookie top5 pick QB is when you're close to fully rebuilt, not a good defense with a revolving door O Line and no WR.

eagle eye

It rhymes but Zappe is crap.

Bring in a mid round rookie and some cheap vet.

If Washington take a QB at two then Howell might be available pretty cheap. I'd grab him, he threw for nearly 4k yards last season with an offensive line as bad as the Patriots. He was sacked more than any QB in the league, I think it was over 60 sacks.

Mr. Guappa

I don't know lads, you'll achieve nothing but mediocrity with an average QB. If you believe that Maye or Daniels has the potential to be a franchise QB, then I don't see how you can pass on that player at #3. You can sit them for half a season behind Brissett or whoever, but at least you have the answer at the most important position on the field.

That said, I can't believe they didn't tag Onwenu - hopefully they get something done with him. The draft is deep at WR and OL so you have a chance there to address those needs, but if they let Onwenu walk then they are just adding more needs.

AbusesToilets

I wouldn't be devastated if they trade back and grab a top OL and one of the other good WR prospects. We have to face reality that it's unlikely that we're competitive for the next couple of seasons. I agree that dropping a rookie QB in to get crushed would be a bad call, but would Mayo be given enough slack to bench a no. 3 pick for a season?

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878852#Comment_121878852

I think if you have an exsting head coach you proabbly do that, another 3/4 win season and that head coach is probably toast.

With a new head coach (like Mayo), maybe you tell him, go build the team for a year, then next year we go QB shopping and get the full 5 year rookie deal to get back to competing for championships.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878852#Comment_121878852

As a fan of a team that passed on Mahomes and Watson because in year 1 of a rebuild they wanted to build the surroundings first and bring in a QB later, I'd be really cautious of having a blinkered approach on what is best to do.

They should do their work on the QBs and if they like one and he is available when on the clock then you have to take him. Otherwise it is a complete gamble on when the next chance you'll have of getting a QB as good again, especially a chance that doesnt involve paying a boatload of picks to trade for or up to get.

AbusesToilets

Cousins leaving the Vikings means they could be in the market to trade up. Pats could get a haul for no.3

el Fenomeno

Onwenu is back on a 3 year deal. Brilliant.

And Parker is gone. What a day.

AbusesToilets

Brisket back too, along with Gibson

eagle eye

The Onwenu re-signing is great news.

I'd have preferred to keep Mac and have Brissett there too but it is what it is. Hopefully the idea is to start him and take a rookie in the second or third round to sit on the bench and learn.

With Onwenu back I wouldn't mind taking a shot with Penix. The right tackle spot is the most critical for him seeing as he's left-handed.

Gibson is just an average guy, he might work out and he might not. It didn't cost us much so I'm not against the signing and here's hoping it works out great.

el Fenomeno

From whats been reported and what's been said, it seems like we're going QB at #3 and I've been happy with that.

But part of me wonders if it's more sensible to take either Harrison or Alt at #3 and try get one of McCarthy, Penix or Nix at either 2.03 or if we have to trade back into the mid to late first for one of them.

We'll see what happens this week with Calvin Ridley and Hollywood Brown who we've been linked to, which would probably rule out Harrison if we signed one of them.

But if you looked at our main offensive needs as QB, WR, LT and RT then the below would not be a bad off-season by any means.

QB: Penix/McCarthy/Nix

WR: Ridley/Hollywood, Bourne, Douglas

LT: Alt

RT: Onwenu

It's a deep WR by all accounts so you could even add a third round pick in there too.

Mr. Guappa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879724#Comment_121879724

Yeah, your best shot at finding a franchise QB is at the top of the draft. If you think Maye/Daniels can be that guy, then you take him and figure the rest out later.

eagle eye

As many if not more bust than make it from the top of the draft.

Go back to '21, Lawrence is average and both Wilson and Lance are busts. The year before was a great one with Burrow and Tagovailoa in the top 5 with Herbert at 6.

You aren't going anywhere with Kyler Murray or Daniel Jones who were high picks in 2019. You had Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold the year before. Trubisky in 2017, Goff and Wentz in '16, Winston and Mariota in '15 and Bortles in'14 to round out the last ten drafts.

So you've got two excellent picks, one very good, two above average, three below average and eight busts.

So it's basically not a safe option to pick a QB at the top of the draft.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883900#Comment_121883900

The hit rate for QBs at the top of the draft is far better than the hit rate that your proposing of picking a QB in the 2nd or 3rd. It is rare a QB that is picked in those rounds becomes anything more than a backup, if you're lucky a low end starter.

Given that you believe the Patriots has a good core you're not going to be picking this high again. There is no risk free and cheap way to get a good QB and it only gets harder to get one the closer you creep towards a winning season again.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884300#Comment_121884300

It's less than 50% with top 5 picks. A no.3 pick is far more valuable than taking a chance that big of a risk. There's a guaranteed success that should be available at 3 and that's Marvin Harrison jr.

I posted the no.3 QB picks in the last ten years, Bortles, Darnold and Lance. That's three busts right there so that doesn't augur well for taking a QB at that number.

We have lots of holes and QB is well down that list because the offensive line needs to be fixed and an elite wide receiver and a no.2 are needed for the offense. It's pointless bringing in a QB until you have those things in place. There's a good crop of QBs coming out next season.

This year I'd be willing to take a chance on Penix falling to the third round and pick him up there. There are question marks around him as regards injury but he seems the type to work really hard to succeed.

And I don't want a running QB as that means you aren't going to be successful in the postseason. The only guy who can run with the ball whose won Superbowls in the last twenty years is Patrick Mahomes and he just happens to be the best passer in the league.

How Jayden Daniels is rated so highly is beyond me. He has so many questions marks around his abilities in the pro game. He shouldn't be a top 20 pick.

AbusesToilets

Any decent TE prospects in the draft? We've whiffed on so many this past decade, could really do with a solid pick up.

eagle eye

I'm reading now that Ridley is deciding between us and the Jags. I'll be sick if we sign Ridley. He's not a top level receiver. We'd have been better off to keep Parker than sign him.

el Fenomeno

It's easy think of Ridley as a receiver in his mid 20s who still has a lot in the tank but he'll be 30 before the season finishes. Not many put it together at that age.

Id rather go for Hollywood Brown, or trade for Tee Higgins.

In any case, if Jaguars resign Ridley today, they have to give Atlanta a 2nd round pick. If they resign him tomorrow, it's a 3rd round pick - so I'm fairly certain it's done and dusted that he'll return to Jacksonville and they just won't announce it until tomorrow.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884500#Comment_121884500

That is the weirdest way I've seen someone frame an argument about a draft selection. The fact those three QBs were each picked number three has absolutely nothing to do with whether they were a success unless you believe the number three is cursed and impacts QBs. Other picks at that number recently include Solomon Thomas, Jeff Okudah, and Dante Fowler who were all also busts. Maybe the third pick is cursed in general...

The vast majority of NFL starting QBs were available at the third pick in their draft and over the last few years Herbert, Watson, and Allen were all the third QB in their draft selected. If you scout well you can absolutely pick a superstar, you just dont force a QB pick if you dont like the guy.

Feel you're probably still living off the Brady fumes, where hitting on a QB later in the draft is a not too difficult thing to do. In reality it is an absolute lottery winning scenario - not only do you need to be incredibly lucky in your evaluation and their development path, you also have to be lucky enough that 31 teams do not see the potential that you do and they pass them over, some multiple times.

I do not have the interest in dragging this team thread down a hole any further so I'll leave it here and wish you all the best of luck with your draft.

eagle eye

Still living off Brady fumes🙄

el Fenomeno

Ridley off the market now.

23 million a year on a 4 year deal. That's a lot for someone averaging under 60 yards a game last year, with 9 games under 40 yards. Not upset about missing out on him at all.

Mr. Guappa

Jonah Williams gone to the Cardinals on a reasonable looking 2 year deal. Titans have overpaid for Ridley, so not disappointed on that one, but Williams would have been a good signing to protect a rookie QB.

ELM327

I'm really hoping we don't go QB at 3. I posted my reasons already but I'm in favor of either Alt or Harrison, with my preference being Alt.

el Fenomeno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121890760#Comment_121890760

We're not missing much with Williams. He just has name value because of his college and where he was drafted. He was poor last year even before he moved to RT. We've already signed a free agent tackle that graded better than him for starters.