New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602004#Comment_121602004

Yeah it's 5pm.

eagle eye

I'm upset now, very upset.

From what Kraft said it sounds like Bill already has another job.

Hopefully its Jerod or Steve that gets the job.

I'll apologise in advance if it's anybody else because I'll be criticising every stupid thing I see.

el Fenomeno

I have a feeling Steve will be following him wherever he goes, perhaps with a promotion to DC.

Coreyhotline

Couldn’t say he doesn’t deserve it if he does go. Always hard to tell if it’s the father or son but seemed to be really well regarded by the players. Sad day to see bill go but delighted it was at least done properly, neither party deserved a **** show. On a side note, from what little I saw of the press conference, bob looked shaky and frail. Not wishing him ill health, but might be time to turn the reins over to Jonathon and make a clean break with history. Final thought, when I heard there was a press conference, I was really hoping we’d get one last classic bill stonewalling. Probably not the day for it, but boy it would have been funny.

As to the future, I think I could live with vrabel or mayo. I’d prefer vrabel solely on the basis that looking back at prior Super Bowls, with the exception of McVay and the rams, pretty much everyone has been won by a team coached by someone with significant nfl experience (and in most cases a HOF worthy qb). I definitely don’t want Jim harbaugh, can’t stand him.

el Fenomeno

Harbaughs personality rubs me the wrong way, but there's no doubting his credentials and players love playing for him. He'd be a tremendous hire if available IMO.

Coreyhotline

I’m sure harbaugh could be successful. However this is a massive rebuild. Aside from a new gm and coach, we’ll probably need significant replacements across the coaching staff. I assume the belichicks are gone, I assume Klemm is gone because of his health problems, I’m not sure if o’brien stays, so could be a situation where all 3 sides of the front office need significant new blood (offence, defence, personnel). I always felt harbaugh got lucky in terms of the roster he inherited, he’ll have no such luck this time around.

AbusesToilets

Big sad today

Tucker.Tim

He got stale and couldn’t build anything post-Brady. Bad QB picks like Jones were the nail in his coffin. Goodwill even for someone with six titles is finite.

Even at nearly 72 there is definitely an organisation like the Commanders that would give him nearly as much free reign as he had in New England but the suspicion remains the sport may have passed him by and if he couldn’t do it in NE it’s hard to imagine him doing it anywhere else.

The best shot for him is probably a team already on the bubble where him being the HC might galvanise them for a run for a year or two.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603967#Comment_121603967

Dont see the Commanders going near him. New owners seem to be building out a very forward looking approach with a hands on Head of Football Ops over a GM and HC. Don't see there being any room for Bill in that model even if he wanted a part of it, which I doubt he would as he'll want way more control.

Out of the open ones I'd say Falcons, Panthers, Raiders have the type of owners that would be interested in making a splash and bringing in a big name. Falcons probably the most appealing from a Bill perspective, I just cant see Bill living in Vegas and dealing with Davis and the Panthers is too long of a build and again cant see him dealing with Tepper. More likely is one of the playoff teams if they get booted - like the Cowboys.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603967#Comment_121603967

You see this thing of calling Jones a bad QB just annoys me.

Think about rookie season under Josh and he looks like the best from the draft class. So we are all expecting a jump in year two but Josh gets the Raiders job and he's stuck with two defensive coaches as his bosses and an offensive line that's basically a disaster. On to year three and we have hope that BoB might improve things but no the offensive line gets even worse, I didn't think that was possible.

I'm not saying that Mac Jones is a great, good or even average QB but nobody knows because he's been in a dire situation where it's impossible to gauge what he's like.

Look at Patrick Mahomes this season. He doesn't have a great bunch of receiver's and his line isn't as good as it was, not even remotely as bad as the Patriots, and he's been struggling and looks a long way off the QB that's amazed us all for the last five years.

If we didn't see what Patrick did for the last five years what would we say based on this season alone?

AbusesToilets

Mac could've been better than he ended up, but his ceiling was always limited and his biggest supposed strength, informational processing and reading the game, looks completely non-existent now.

eagle eye

So after watching Bob Kraft's question and answers session it's quite clear that Bill was fired, mutual decision my ass.

So **** Bob Kraft, he made a stupid decision. Bill was willing to step back from being general manager like we all wanted.

If Jerod or Steve doesn't get the job I'll be really annoyed.

People talking about Vrabel as an option, it is if you want mediocrity. He's not that good, he's a defensive coach, his offense has never been that good despite having one of the best running backs in the last twenty years.

And I love Vrabel, he was an awesome player for us but I don't want him near the team as a head coach.

cosatron

In bill's defence, losing mcdaniels had a huge effect on the offence and the experiment with judge and Patricia was a disaster

ELM327

Yeah I'm kinda disappointed with this. And that's an understatement. I am glad it was at least a respectable departure and not a sh1tstorm. The joint press conference is exactly what was needed.

A clearing house move sounds good. Move on from pretty much everyone and have a massive rebuild. I don't think we're that far away though. With a free agent Bill available, I'd pick him over the other coaching options, so I'm not sure what this move does for the franchise. I don't want Mayo, he's another defensive minded coach. I quite like Vrabel and I think he did well in tennesee. I don't want any Harbaugh near the franchise. I couldnt root for them.

Ideally now we bring in a "head of football operations" and a HC, both people at the same time, set the direction moving forward. I do however think the future is harder and not easier, now that BB is gone. He's this generations best head coach, for sure, without question, and still has so much to offer.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121605171#Comment_121605171

Agreed it was good to see respect been shown by both men. Fair play to Kraft in the Q&A. Stood up there and gave all the questions a good hearing and due consideration.

There was no BS. He gave BB his fair dues and talked about giving Honour and Respect to Bill after this. He had a decision to make and went with his instincts. I'd take him at face value in that it was both of their instincts to part ways.

Talked about the 'Power 'Structure' and how it evolved after the 3rd SB win and how BB had "earned it" i.e. complete control. That "All of us needs checks and balances in our lives" and with BB not in complete control there wouldn't be "Accountability" and "set up confusion".

Unprecedented tenure and achievements in sports. A truly golden era in Boston that wont be repeated in our lifetimes.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121605171#Comment_121605171

Let me get this right. You don't want Jerod because he's a defensive coach but you want Vrabel, a defensive coach whose been fired after going 13-21 the last two seasons?

Vrabel took over a team that went 9-7 in consecutive seasons before he got there. He had one season where he bettered that.

His team's offensive rankings since he got there,

2018 24th

2019 12th

2020 3rd

2021 17th

2022 30th

2023 28th

Tell me what you see in him that makes you believe he would improve the Patriots?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121606275#Comment_121606275

They traded his main WR and the guy has had a succession of mid QBs at best. The team was basically run derrick henry into the ground and if that doesnt work, do it some more anyway. They had no other weapons. A not dissimilar problem to the current pats team, but stevenson isnt henry.

Vrabel is a former Pat, he's at worst a semi-proven NFL level coach, and at best has potential to improve in a better environment than Tennesee. He's not going to demand GM control, he's got affinity for the patriots, and as you say is a good defensive mind. I think it's similar to the QB discussion. I think someone with some proven history in the league with some development ceiling still to attain, is a better bet than a rookie with no experience. (especially, in the QB case, if picked high).

If we have Vrabel as HC, accept we are in a building phase that should have started 3 years ago and commit to another say 2 years of building, I reckon we can return to competitive football and maybe start looking at playoff football again. It starts with trading out of the top 10.

I like Mayo, and he's done well in his role with defensive coaching but he's not even a DC yet. It's too soon and he doesnt have enough league experience. I'm also somewhat wary of the "BB tree" as most have been awful head coaches. Vrabel as HC with Mayo as DC would be my choice.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121606437#Comment_121606437

It's his fault he only had a poor to average QB. Everything that went wrong there was his fault.

This is what Vrabel said about the AJ Brown trade, "I love A.J. personally. I know how Jon (Robinson, then-Titans GM) feels about him. But (I’m) very comfortable with how this went down and how Jon and I were able to navigate this. Support him in making decisions. Unfortunately, we understand that if we’re going to be here a while, we’re not going to be able to keep every player that we draft and develop.” 

So it appears Vrabel was well involved in the decision to trade Brown. So you can't put that up as any sort of defense for his pathetic record over the last two seasons.

Also we don't need a rebuild unless players are lining up to get out the door, which wouldn't surprise me with Belichick gone.

We need two offensive tackles and an elite wide receiver. We may need a QB but I'd wait and see how things unfold with Jones and/or Zappe before I'd make a move at QB. Put those pieces in place and it goes from a nightmare offense to a friendly one for a QB. We had a top five defense this season despite missing two of our best players in Judon and Gonzalez and that defense rarely got much rest during games which makes their performance quite incredible.

eagle eye

Jerod got the job. Glad it's him.

ELM327

Ok. that was quick. Can't say I fully agree with the decision but he's our HC now so best to rally behind him.

I don't think we're as close as you think we are, 2 OT and an elite WR, we still wouldnt have an interior OL, a QB, and most of our best defenders (who did play well as a group this season) are either coming off of injury, are free agents, or the wrong side of their early 30s, or a combination. We're also losing on special teams with the retirement of Slater. A good locker room influence as well as contributor.

I think we need a full rebuild. We have a tough division with 3 potential playoff teams on any given sunday. If we were in say the NFC south I'd agree with you!

AbusesToilets

Be interesting to see what the Bears do. If they're sticking with Fields , strong chance they take Harrison at 1. So we have a chance at Williams or Maye. I don't agree with trading back, we need elite talent on offense, and it starts this draft

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121606856#Comment_121606856

Who are theses players on the wrong side of thirty that you speak of? Lawrence Guy and who else?

What's wrong with players returning from injury? If they make TC it's all fine. .Judon and Gonzalez will make TC.

ELM327

Judon is 32.Wise, Phillips, a few others Im probably forgetting are north of or just about to be, 30.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121608012#Comment_121608012

Phillips is a backup, Wise is 29.

Judon is 31. Are you saying 31 or even 32 is too old? How many all-pro selections are you predicting will be over 30 this year?

We don't need to spend high draft picks or sign big names for our defense this year.

Keion White will likely be a starter this year.

We need to do new deals with Dugger, Jennings and Uche obviously. We can do them because we won't have a big QB contract, we don't have big wide receiver contracts either. I'd put a first round tender on Dugger.

ELM327

32 is perfectly fine if you're a contender. It's not, if you're starting a 2-3 year rebuild. Which a team with 4 wins and no QB and a rookie head coach with no OC/DC experience is exactly what you're looking at.

We need OL and WR in the draft as highest priority. After that, I'd start looking at defense. I'm absolutely not saying "hey lets spend the top 5 pick on a defensive back or a pass rusher", or spend big in FA - pointless as I don't expect us to be contending next year. I don't watch much college football but people seem quite high on Marvin Harrison or Joe Alt to the patriots at 3. As they are WR and OT respectively,I'd be happy with that. Particularly with the size of Alt. Not sure I want a harrison at WR after the years his father spent with Peyton :P

I was reading the updated CBS draft analysis after the games last week and they seem to think our needs are a lot wider than you do btw

3. New England Patriots (4-13)

Team needs: OT, DT, TE, WR, LB

eagle eye

Marvin Harrison jr. is the best player in the draft. As usual QBs are considered more important to a lot of teams but he is the best prospect.

eagle eye

Watched Jerod's introductory press conference today. He talked a lot and smiled a lot but he gave away nothing.

Where did he learn that from I wonder?

Coreyhotline

O’Brien going to Ohio state as oc according to espn. Can’t say I’m surprised, but probably means a significant turnover on offensive coaching side now.

eagle eye

I'm glad O'Brien is gone. He did nothing to improve the offense. If you can't improve on what Patricia and Judge did it's not good.

Coreyhotline

How’d people feel about josh coming back? I’d be ok with it. As with all these things, hard to tell how much is josh and how much is Brady, I would say that every backup in NE was ready to go when Brady was down.