Late Late Show 8th Jan 16

BuilderPlumber

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

But 100 years of dreams means the State is a flop if it's not yet a reality.

Nothing has changed much since 1916. Big business corruption, a massive rich/poor divide and social problems remain. Healthocracy fascism seems to be alive and well in both Ireland and the UK with the recent attitudes towards alcohol. Yet, no mention of the affect stress, job insecurity and unemployment have on one's health. Yes, because healthocracies do not care about health only about scaring people into submission without firing a gun. Ceaucescu would be proud as punch. That modern Ireland resembles 1980s Romania in luxury is no achievement and while our government only care about upping the prices of drink and cannot solve our real problems begs the question of why anyone died for this state?

qweerty

dublinman1990 wrote: »

My opinions from 1916 to 2016 are that it was a time that many political leaders including most of our modern leaders had so many scandals before them that will make our previous leaders turn in their graves. They were a few good seeds in that bunch to make Ireland a little bit more bearable to live in. But the overall problem was that most of those same leaders up to now haven't been thoroughly able to govern this country in a proper and authoritative manner.

Some of these individuals were still living the realm of corruption. To me those are not the ideals of the 1916 leaders...

Our previous leaders? You mean those of the Rising? Those who, with the exception of James Connolly, had never tested public apetite for their cause by standing for election? "Our leaders" were a disparate group, each with their own motivations, and certainly without universal ideals, beyond a hatred for the Empire. Presumably you don't count Eoin MacNeill among their number - he who withdrew his Irish Volunteers because of the duplicity of Pearse, Plunkett and Connolly. The Irish Volunteers had numbered close to two-hundred thousand, but the split that occurred following Redmond's securing of Home Rule reduced their number to close to fifteen thousand. Their's the measure of public support. Is it really so surprising, then, considering the anti-democratic spirit of the 1916 Rising and the scheming of the likes of Pearse, that Ireland's elected leaders would have wayward moral compasses?

mcgucc22

anyone know why the competition question was changed a few hours before the competition lines closed?

Fr Tod Umptious

qweerty wrote: »

Our previous leaders? You mean those of the Rising? Those who, with the exception of James Connolly, had never tested public apetite for their cause by standing for election? "Our leaders" were a disparate group, each with their own motivations, and certainly without universal ideals, beyond a hatred for the Empire. Presumably you don't count Eoin MacNeill among their number - he who withdrew his Irish Volunteers because of the duplicity of Pearse, Plunkett and Connolly. The Irish Volunteers had numbered close to two-hundred thousand, but the split that occurred following Redmond's securing of Home Rule reduced their number to close to fifteen thousand. Their's the measure of public support. Is it really so surprising, then, considering the anti-democratic spirit of the 1916 Rising and the scheming of the likes of Pearse, that Ireland's elected leaders would have wayward moral compasses?

I agree with you up to the last line, the wayward moral compass bit.

We are the only European nation that gained independence between the wars to maintain democracy throughout.

That's a credit to the people and the politicians.
All have respected the will of the voter.

I think politicians moral compass is set a lot better than people are willing to admit.

Martypants1

I thought we'd be remembering the rising, but it's going to just turn into a big political point scoring exercise. "The rising dreamed of a fair Ireland for all irish people" - Enda Kenny is a bastard, irish water, homeless etc etc.

Blindboy on about his generation - what is that all about? People are emigrating? My facebook feed doesn't show me of anyone who is sad about leaving, they're all talking about sunny Melbourne and how great Canada is going to be.

I'd rather not have the comparisons of what the proclamation says and where we are today, completely different times and we are in a much better place than back then.

Dannyriver

qweerty wrote: »

This poets and intellectuals nonsense has to stop. Almost all the fighters were young and working class. Connolly was the intellectual socialist and Pearse the poet (of questionable ability). Neither fought on that day in 1916. Ballagh characterised them as all having come from the library.

I was led to believe that the Rubberbandits are "fierce smart," but the populist, illinformed stuff we heard from "Blind Boy" put paid to that.

'populist' 'ill informed' do explain smart lad

Martypants1

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Nothing has changed much since 1916. Big business corruption, a massive rich/poor divide and social problems remain. Healthocracy fascism seems to be alive and well in both Ireland and the UK with the recent attitudes towards alcohol. Yet, no mention of the affect stress, job insecurity and unemployment have on one's health. Yes, because healthocracies do not care about health only about scaring people into submission without firing a gun. Ceaucescu would be proud as punch. That modern Ireland resembles 1980s Romania in luxury is no achievement and while our government only care about upping the prices of drink and cannot solve our real problems begs the question of why anyone died for this state?

What cancer does job insecurity cause?

Rich and poor divide exists because there is a divide amongst people, smart/stupid, risk takers/safe, ambitious/non ambitious people.

Dannyriver

Martypants1 wrote: »

I thought we'd be remembering the rising, but it's going to just turn into a big political point scoring exercise. "The rising dreamed of a fair Ireland for all irish people" - Enda Kenny is a bastard, irish water, homeless etc etc.

Blindboy on about his generation - what is that all about? People are emigrating? My facebook feed doesn't show me of anyone who is sad about leaving, they're all talking about sunny Melbourne and how great Canada is going to be.

I'd rather not have the comparisons of what the proclamation says and where we are today, completely different times and we are in a much better place than back then.

Use your imagination Marty , the fact that they are not sad about leaving is exactly the point. If someone wants to emigrate and see the world well and good but eventually most people want to come back. Parents/grand parents get old and sick and die and lots of people want to be there for them when that happens. Also parents hearts broken missing out on watching their children evolve to have children of their own.

And if you haven t noticed there are huge chunks of our population that are disadvantaged and condemned to poor education and poverty. They are your generation also Marty regardless of the scummy housing estate they are living in.

Dannyriver

Martypants1 wrote: »

What cancer does job insecurity cause?

Rich and poor divide exists because there is a divide amongst people, smart/stupid, risk takers/safe, ambitious/non ambitious people.

The best place for you Marty is the US... you can vote for Trump and everything once you become a citizen that s his simplistic view on things as well.

Martypants1

Dannyriver wrote: »

Use your imagination Marty , the fact that they are not sad about leaving is exactly the point. If someone wants to emigrate and see the world well and good but eventually most people want to come back. Parents/grand parents get old and sick and die and lots of people want to be there for them when that happens. Also parents hearts broken missing out on watching their children evolve to have children of their own.

And if you haven t noticed there are huge chunks of our population that are disadvantaged and condemned to poor education and poverty. They are your generation also Marty regardless of the scummy housing estate they are living in.

I'm sorry I live in a country where I was educated free up to the age of 23 and not left with any debt like in the states.

Dannyriver

Martypants1 wrote: »

I'm sorry I live in a country where I was educated free up to the age of 23 and not left with any debt like in the states.

Marty the country owes over 200 billion that s over 60, 000 euro per head. Your head is one of them. Seriously you need to think about what you are saying before you write.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/who-owes-more-money-the-irish-or-the-greeks-1.2236034

weadick

Blind Boy said afterwards that the debate should have gone on longer and involved the audience.

qweerty

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I agree with you up to the last line, the wayward moral compass bit.

We are the only European nation that gained independence between the wars to maintain democracy throughout.

That's a credit to the people and the politicians.
All have respected the will of the voter.

I think politicians moral compass is set a lot better than people are willing to admit.

First, I was answering to the popular characterisation of Irish politics, which many sineltaneously hold while mythologising the Easter Rising and its participants.

And while, in truth, I don't condemn the last century (or, indeed, last decade) of Irish politics as being corrupt, I genuinely believe that there is a high probability that we would have a healthier democratic process had Ireland's freedom come through parliamentary means.

As for Ireland's relative stability post-1923, I certainly agree that that was not a guaranteed outcome and that there existed precedent for far worse. But I don't think politicians should ever receive credit for not instigating a coup d'etat. And there were several pre-existing reasons (ie ones for which no credit is deserved) why that didn't happen here: the precedent of British parliamentary democracy, which we had engaged in; the relative stability and homogeneity of Irish society; the post-Civil War factions that meant a large section of the population mistrusted the government of the day; and...the Catholic Church. The last was as good as a coup.

At this point, unless I am referenced in a particularly egregious post, I am bowing out and allowing the phoenix that is the LLS thread to die and be reborn.

LordSutch

Would love to have been in the audience and given a chance to counter Robert Ballagh on one or two points, specially the one he made about the disgusting thought of an alphabetical memorial to all who died in the Rising. Where a rebels name might be next to the name of a member of the British army, or a policeman .... to which I would have said, yes but that member of the British army or the RIC may well have been born & raised in Dublin too. In other words "The British" were not necessarily English) as many Irish people nowadays presume.