Why do you hate Irish?

Dughorm

heroics wrote: »

I could understand maths and English being compulsory as they may have some use in the future but unless you want to teach Irish what's the point.

Out of interest how was the English literature you learned going to be of use to you in the future, considering your English comprehension was well covered by your other subjects?

Jawgap

.....because of how it was taught and promoted.

Also, certain groups have turned its use into a political act / statement.

I hated it in school.......hated it in uni........hated when I went to the Gaeltacht!

It was only about 12 years ago when I discovered my grá for it when the job I had required me to develop a proficiency in the language. I came to enjoy speaking and working through it.......

In 2014 I changed jobs and actually miss using it!

My kids hate it, so I guess teaching hasn't moved on much?

The King of Moo

I don't hate it. I don't love it either, I can just use it fairly well.

In my experience, most people hate it for three main reasons:

1. It often wasn't taught well at all (e.g. no speaking practice, consolidation, grammar explanation, leading to frustration. It's not a particularly difficult language to learn, but you still need a pretty competent teacher.

2. Most of us are monolingual and lacked the benefit of exposure to and us of another language from an early age in learning a language. This was compounded by being taught Irish by teachers who were basically monolingual English speakers. Even the ones who were fluent in Irish would probabky have grown up with it as a mother tongue, and therefore didn't have the insight into learning a language in a school setting which is crucial to any language teacher. It's telling that none of the non-Irish born people I know who've learnt it had any issues with it, as they'd already learned English and other languages properly.

3. It was cool to say you didn't like it when you were a teenager, and some people maintain this mindset into adulthood.Though I believe its unpopularity was strongly linked to points 1 and 2, with people getting frustrated with their lack of progress and saying "Stupid language anyway, I'd want to learn it if they didn't try to cram it down my throat!" Understandably, of course.

So I really don't buy it when someone says it was forced down their throat in primary school. Do they also hate English, Nature Studies, Religion (well...), Geography, History etc which we also had no choice about learning in primary school?

For the record, my ideas on language learning come from being an experienced English-language teacher who has also learned some French and Italian. I think Irish should be compulsory in Primary School as it's crucial for children to learn a second language for their general cognitive development and later language acquisition. I think Irish is the best option as there are the most opportunities for encountering and using the language outside the classroom (number of Irish speakers in the country, signs, TG4, RnaG) which is essential for learning a language.
I then believe it should be optional at Second level.

DivingDuck

Dughorm wrote: »

This thread needs a poll..... lots of people don't hate it... unless they put down that they can speak Irish on the census but secretly hate it as well

I can do a lot of things I hate.

My ability to do them has exactly zero bearing on my enjoyment of them.

mansize

Is breá liom gaeilge

Caoimhgh1n

I love Irish. Beautiful language.

Dughorm

The_Minister wrote: »

I have a massive chip on my shoulder over having to learn that language.

It was the source of endless hours of suffering for me - I cannot put into words what a negative impact having to learn Irish had on my childhood, and that isn't an exaggeration.

It was taught in such an awful manner that my knowledge of French surpasses it by a mile, even though I put a fraction of the time into it.
It was the subject that made the least sense, took the most work, was the least fun and the least rewarding.
It shook my confidence in my intelligence, and made me feel like an idiot for at least an hour every day.
It took time from subjects with some usefulness and set back my academic life overall.
It represented hours of frustration and heartache, over something I knew all along was absolutely worthless.

I'm older now, and I no longer want to burn down the Gaeltacht, but the way the language is taught needs to be radically overhauled, in particular, not having the language taught by teachers with only a passing knowledge of the language.

Thank you so much for this post - I passionately believe the teaching of the language is dire for the most part and you have explained this brilliantly!

martyos121

ted1 wrote: »

I don't hate it. I only speak a cupla focail but me daughter is in senior infants in a gaelscoil. She was fluent by the Christmas in junior infants. It really demonstrates the power of learning through immersion. None if her other subjects have suffered as a result. I'd like to see more gaelscoil and Gael secondary schools.

I don't think a lot of people realise how going to a Gaelscoil and learning the language all day, every day for 8 years from such a young age can have such a positive and lasting effect on learning and most importantly retaining the language through the following years. If the majority of national schools were Gaelscoils, I think there's a great chance of living in a bilingual society and not having Gaeilgeoirs forced away into certain parts of the country.

colm_mcm

Learning Klingon would probably have more practical uses.
I think it's a beautiful language, but I also think thatching roofs is brilliant. I wouldn't make it compulsory for everyone to learn to thatch a cottage just because it's a dying trade.
I suspect there is a fear that the language will be lost if it isn't forced on people in school.

Crumpets

I'd like to start learning it again. It's a beautiful-sounding language I think. I wasn't too fond of it as a subject in school though. I'd have liked it more if they had focused more on conversing as Gaeilge as opposed to making us learn off essays about drug problems

The King of Moo

I'd be amazed if there were many 12-year olds sitting in a classroom during an Irish lesson thinking "I wish I were learning something more practical that will benefit me in my adult life."

That argument's always seemed to me to be retrospectively applied.

ancapailldorcha

The King of Moo wrote: »

I'd be amazed if there were many 12-year olds sitting in a classroom during an Irish lesson thinking "I wish I were learning something more practical that will benefit me in my adult life."

That argument's always seemed to me to be retrospectively applied.

I was. We had a large computer room in our school that I barely got to use at all. Apparently, being just about able to string together half a dozen words as an adult was more important.

Carlos Orange

I don't hate Irish. I hate the artificial position it has in Ireland and the way it is forced on me.

strelok

martyos121 wrote: »

I don't think a lot of people realise how going to a Gaelscoil and learning the language all day, every day for 8 years from such a young age can have such a positive and lasting effect on learning and most importantly retaining the language through the following years. If the majority of national schools were Gaelscoils, I think there's a great chance of living in a bilingual society and not having Gaeilgeoirs forced away into certain parts of the country.

i went to an all irish school for primary and secondary, even did my first year of college through Irish.

out of all the people I still keep in contact (or facebook contact) with, I could count on one hand with many fingers to spare the number of people who still use or probably even understand irish to even a moderate degree

syklops

The King of Moo wrote: »

I'd be amazed if there were many 12-year olds sitting in a classroom during an Irish lesson thinking "I wish I were learning something more practical that will benefit me in my adult life."

We were taught Irish usually for 3 hours a day, followed by 40 mins of religion, and the rest of the day was English and Maths. Some days it was irish all day. Some days we got to English but never made it to maths. Once in a blue moon we would do a half hour of nature or geography, but it was very rare.

Are you seriously saying you think kids after 3 hours of Irish would not prefer to be doing something different?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Crumpets wrote: »

I'd like to start learning it again. It's a beautiful-sounding language I think. I wasn't too fond of it as a subject in school though. I'd have liked it more if they had focused more on conversing as Gaeilge as opposed to making us learn off essays about drug problems

Then why don't you? PLenty of resources available to you.

The King of Moo wrote: »

I'd be amazed if there were many 12-year olds sitting in a classroom during an Irish lesson thinking "I wish I were learning something more practical that will benefit me in my adult life."

That argument's always seemed to me to be retrospectively applied.

That's not the problem. The problem (from the lanaguge's point of view) is that 12-year old's aren't sitting in a classroom during an Irish lesson thinking "ok - this is interesting - I could enjoy this".

Carlos Orange

The King of Moo wrote: »

I'd be amazed if there were many 12-year olds sitting in a classroom during an Irish lesson thinking "I wish I were learning something more practical that will benefit me in my adult life."

It wasn't a conscious thought it my mind but the fact that the first language I learned after my native language was of no practical worth probably didn't enamour me to learning foreign languages latter on in life.

Sh1tbag OToole

Crumpets wrote: »

I'd like to start learning it again. It's a beautiful-sounding language I think. I wasn't too fond of it as a subject in school though. I'd have liked it more if they had focused more on conversing as Gaeilge as opposed to making us learn off essays about drug problems

I think it usually is for the first year or 3, then they start layering on the sh1te with poems and learning off long lists of things to forget the day after.

ted1

syklops wrote: »

We were taught Irish usually for 3 hours a day, followed by 40 mins of religion, and the rest of the day was English and Maths. Some days it was irish all day. Some days we got to English but never made it to maths. Once in a blue moon we would do a half hour of nature or geography, but it was very rare.

Are you seriously saying you think kids after 3 hours of Irish would not prefer to be doing something different?

You see, this is where a Gael scoil comes in. They don't do three hours of Irish, they do the other subjects just through Irish.

Crumpets

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Then why don't you? PLenty of resources available to you.

Might do eventually but I'm currently wrapped up in learning German and don't want to overexcite my little brain

Pac1Man

This one sentence.

Léigh anois go cúramach ar do scrúdpháipéar na treoracha agus na ceisteanna a ghabhann le cuid A.

The horror.

syklops

ted1 wrote: »

You see, this is where a Gael scoil comes in. They don't do three hours of Irish, they do the other subjects just through Irish.

Cui bono?

martyos121

strelok wrote: »

i went to an all irish school for primary and secondary, even did my first year of college through Irish.

out of all the people I still keep in contact (or facebook contact) with, I could count on one hand with many fingers to spare the number of people who still use or probably even understand irish to even a moderate degree

And I'm guessing many if not all of these people don't live in a Gaeltacht? It isn't socially acceptable to speak Irish outside of them nowadays, which I find unfortunate. Obviously I don't know your friends but I'd imagine if they had the opportunity to use the language in everyday life, they'd be more inclined to speak it a bit. I only say this because I wish I had the opportunity to speak it everyday but I don't have the chance where I live, and as much as I love the language, I wouldn't trade my current living conditions for it by moving out to the sticks.

Sh1tbag OToole

martyos121 wrote: »

And I'm guessing many if not all of these people don't live in a Gaeltacht? It isn't socially acceptable to speak Irish outside of them nowadays, which I find unfortunate. Obviously I don't know your friends but I'd imagine if they had the opportunity to use the language in everyday life, they'd be more inclined to speak it a bit. I only say this because I wish I had the opportunity to speak it everyday but I don't have the chance where I live, and as much as I love the language, I wouldn't trade my current living conditions for it by moving out to the sticks.

I have never heard of it being socially unacceptable. Where have you seen this being the case?

The King of Moo

syklops wrote: »

We were taught Irish usually for 3 hours a day, followed by 40 mins of religion, and the rest of the day was English and Maths. Some days it was irish all day. Some days we got to English but never made it to maths. Once in a blue moon we would do a half hour of nature or geography, but it was very rare.

Are you seriously saying you think kids after 3 hours of Irish would not prefer to be doing something different?

I'm not saying that at all, as I never went to such a strange school. Was that primary or secondary school?

In primary school I remember it getting fairly equal treatment compared to other subjects, and in secondary it got the normal 40 minutes per day.

Unless those three hours were broken up and included engaging communication activities and lots of eliciting answers from students instead of being teacher-led it was a waste of time. I can understand why that would be painful, but I can't imagine it would be a typical scenario.

FloatingVoter

It's just irrelevant to me. A huge waste of schoolchildrens time that I didn't bother learning. Did Art to make up the lost honour in the leaving cert. I honestly thought it would have disappeared into the colleges and evening classes by now.
I'm pretty sure Irish is easier to drop officially now - just throw in an extra subject to make up the lost points. If you're good at languages, nobody ever failed to get laid speaking French or Italian.

ted1

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

I have never heard of it being socially unacceptable. Where have you seen this being the case?

It's kind of hard ordering a coffee in Starbucks through Irish when the staff is Polish.

syklops

The King of Moo wrote: »

I'm not saying that at all, as I never went to such a strange school. Was that primary or secondary school?

In primary school I remember it getting fairly equal treatment compared to other subjects, and in secondary it got the normal 40 minutes per day.

Unless those three hours were broken up and included engaging communication activities and lots of eliciting answers from students instead of being teacher-led it was a waste of time. I can understand why that would be painful, but I can't imagine it would be a typical scenario.

That was primary school and speaking to my friends and if you ask the boardsies here who do hate it with a passion, many of them came from schools with a similar organisation.

The King of Moo

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Then why don't you? PLenty of resources available to you.



That's not the problem. The problem (from the lanaguge's point of view) is that 12-year old's aren't sitting in a classroom during an Irish lesson thinking "ok - this is interesting - I could enjoy this".

I completely agree. I think people were mainly bored by Irish in school because it wasn't made engaging for them.
I don't think everyone sees that when they look back on their schooldays and rationalise their annoyance with Irish with explanations from their adult life.

martyos121

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

I have never heard of it being socially unacceptable. Where have you seen this being the case?

Well if you start speaking Irish to people down the street, they tend to give you an odd look. You can't walk into most restaurants and order as Gaeilge, you can't handle a lot of daily errands as Gaeilge, and most imprortantly, it's quite hard to chat up a woman as Gaeilge more often than not :pac:.

Maybe socially unacceptable isn't the correct term for it, but I perceive the language to be frowned upon in daily life, at least where I live.