Star Trek: Beyond

ItHurtsWhenIP

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't see why. Plenty of earth cultures has clothing for men like that, never mind other civilisations

Quite - here is a dress uniform that is also a part of normal clothing!!!

Myrddin

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't see why. Plenty of earth cultures has clothing for men like that, never mind other civilisations

It's akin to seeing Chekov in Uhura's uniform. I've no issue with it, but it just seemed so random, came with no explanation, & was never seen again

Myrddin

Myrddin wrote: »

It's akin to seeing Chekov in Uhura's uniform. I've no issue with it, but it just seemed so random, came with no explanation, & was never seen again

That was the great thing about it. It was so normal, in-universe, that it needed no explanation.
That bad was that it was so fleeting

Myrddin

Deleted User wrote: »

That was the great thing about it. It was so normal, in-universe, that it needed no explanation.
That bad was that it was so fleeting

True enough, it kinda said "so what!" to preconceptions

ItHurtsWhenIP

Right lads/ladies ... lets get back on topic!!!

So what do we think of Rihanna's track???:D:D:D

MMFITWGDV

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

Right lads/ladies ... lets get back on topic!!!

So what do we think of Rihanna's track???:D:D:D

Edit: that was a dick comment although I doubt that she would care, when rolling in her millions.

Feck it, I would jump at the chance to take part in Trek (even this version)

AMKC

Myrddin wrote: »

It's akin to seeing Chekov in Uhura's uniform. I've no issue with it, but it just seemed so random, came with no explanation, & was never seen again

The wardrobe department had received more female than male uniforms and they were short so he said he would wear a dress

Ok maybe not but I for one she nothing wrong with it thought it was cool and wish there had of been a few more instances like that. I do think it had something to do with them being short some uniforms do not sure why.

malcy

So Sulu's partner is

Co Writer Doug Jung. Seen in the trailer running away from the attack on Starbase Yorktown with, presumably, Demora in his arms.

Have to agree with Takei on the changing of Sulu's sexuality. Less a tribute more of a let's shoehorn ths in and keep people happy.

malcy

malcy wrote: »

So Sulu's partner is

Co Writer Doug Jung. Seen in the trailer running away from the attack on Starbase Yorktown with, presumably, Demora in his arms.

Have to agree with Takei on the changing of Sulu's sexuality. Less a tribute more of a let's shoehorn ths in and keep people happy.

Is it changing? Have they ever stated his sexuality or even shown him attracted to women (in TOS I mean, been too long since I watched it)? Yeah it's shoehorned but is an immaterial change to the character unless smashing against previous character development.

BuffyBot

The Sulu thing: well intended, I'm sure but incredibly lazy for want of another term. I can see why Takei is miffed to an extent.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

degrassinoel

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it changing? Have they ever stated his sexuality or even shown him attracted to women (in TOS I mean, been too long since I watched it)? Yeah it's shoehorned but is an immaterial change to the character unless smashing against previous character development.

No, Not in the show - but he did have a daughter (can be argued as adopted or otherwise) but George Takei has said that Sulu and every major character in ST was painstakingly created to the most minute detail by Roddenberry, to which end, Sulu was Hetero. Hence GT's reaction.

Which is all fine and good, because in all reality writing a gay character back in the 60's could have been the instant cancellation of the series before it had started.

The show has always pushed moral boundaries, and it shouldnt stop doing that, but it should leave the main characters the way GR created them. Spock in 'Into Darkness' was another complete and utter foulup that i'd prefer not have seen him evolve into.

Although i'm hopeful the Sulu thing wont be such a major dent in the lore as Spock was.

degrassinoel

degrassinoel wrote: »

George Takei has said that Sulu and every major character in ST was painstakingly created to the most minute detail by Roddenberry, to which end, Sulu was Hetero. Hence GT's reaction.

Except we know that GR was shot down for equal rights, in The Cage, and there was to be no female No.1

GR had to work within the system and there was no way on earth he would have gotten a gay character into TOS.

This is the same show which had Riker fall for a gender neutral individual identifying as female, remember.
We have no way of knowing what GR wanted for his characters other than he was extremely open minded (how far we do not know)

degrassinoel

Yeah i agree with ye, those were the limitations of the time. I think it's more that the amount of thought put into each of the characters by GR and the fact that they are recklessly being changed without really addressing anything that's pissing off GT. And i'm talking about all of them in the recent films, not just Sulu.

Having a gay character is fine, but randomly changing a character that's been in the show since episode one to all of a sudden being gay and that being somehow important enough to warrant discussion and bickering between the legends of the show and the recent actors of the new films, that's not fine. It's lore breaking for little reason other than saying it's okay to be gay. Sure everyone knows that anyway. And what's more is, ST fans in general are more open minded to this kind of thing anyway, so they're preaching to the choir.

CramCycle

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it changing? Have they ever stated his sexuality or even shown him attracted to women (in TOS I mean, been too long since I watched it)? Yeah it's shoehorned but is an immaterial change to the character unless smashing against previous character development.

I suppose more the point is, if they have never stated it, why state it now.

If he is gay fine, if he is bi fine, if he is hetero fine but why make a marketing piece out of it. My own view of the ST universe was that such labels (particularly within the federation) were redundant, you were just attracted to people. If they were attracted back, great, if they were not, no harm done.

As for GR, I thought I read in an interview (and I could be so wrong here), that like most people of his generation, he was a bit homophobic, much like many people would have been due to scaremongering and effectively brainwashing, and that this really only changed in the late 80s and early 90s. He hadn't given it much thought before then. I think he clarified he wasn't going out gay bashing but he would have been uncomfortable at the time.

Beefy78

'Prime' Sulu isn't gay. Both Takai and Pegg have acknowledged that.

dimwittedrep

Does anybody know yet why (or indeed if) it matters one bit to whatever chaotic mess of a storyline they randomly assign to this installment?

AtomicHorror

Beefy78 wrote: »

'Prime' Sulu isn't gay. Both Takai and Pegg have acknowledged that.

Prime Spock is not prone to getting into fist fights and having a long term relationship outside the normal sexual cycle of his species. There've been a lot of changes I'd consider more significant than Sulu liking a slightly different kind of human.

degrassinoel

I have to quote this again, it's just too brilliant

"I think, and I’ve made this analogy before, that Star Trek is a bottle into which different vintages can be poured. Over the years a lot of different vintages have been poured. Give you another way of looking at it: if you know the Catholic Mass, you know that many, many composers have set that mass to music. You know that the Brahm’s German Requiem has no relation to the Mozart Coronation Requiem, or the Haydn Mass… you would never know you were listening to the same piece because the music transforms the words, and the vintage may transform the bottle."

"So my reaction, and I remember somebody saying 'Not your grandfather’s Star Trek' when they were talking about J.J.’s stuff. And I was thinking, I can’t really be a judge of this because it is so different from what I understood. I made a lot of changes when I came to that Star Trek thing, because I used to say, 'Well, why are they all wearing pajamas?' I made it into the Navy. It was about the Navy in space. But I didn’t think I changed the characters. I thought Kirk and Spock and those people were who they were."

"And I think the biggest thing that shocked me about J.J. was Spock beating the **** out of somebody, and thinking, 'No, that’s changing the shape of the bottle.' And it may be very entertaining, and it may make a gazillion dollars, but that’s changing the shape of the bottle. I guess that was my thought."

http://www.craveonline.com/site/771077-nicholas-meyer-think-j-j-abrams-star-trek

Beefy78

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Prime Spock is not prone to getting into fist fights and having a long term relationship outside the normal sexual cycle of his species. There've been a lot of changes I'd consider more significant than Sulu liking a slightly different kind of human.

.....and? I'm not sure I get the point.

Beefy78

Beefy78 wrote: »

.....and? I'm not sure I get the point.

Being gay is immaterial in a character sense.

Spock being violent and in romantic relationships is a different character. Far more human dominated

AtomicHorror

Beefy78 wrote: »

.....and? I'm not sure I get the point.

Well perhaps I didn't understand what you meant by stating that prime Sulu is straight. What is the significance of that?

I took it to mean that this is an undesirable departure from canon.

If I understood you correctly, then my point was that if we are concerned with the canonicity of various character traits, Sulu's sexuality is small potatoes and barely worth discussion compared with other much more meaningful changes.

Deleted User wrote: »

Being gay is immaterial in a character sense.

Spock being violent and in romantic relationships is a different character. Far more human dominated

Exactly- and far more likely to drive plot, for better or worse. Mostly worse.

Cookie_Monster

Deleted User wrote: »

Being gay is immaterial in a character sense.

Spock being violent and in romantic relationships is a different character. Far more human dominated

maybe your planet exploding and billions of your species being killed will do that to you...

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

maybe your planet exploding and billions of your species being killed will do that to you...

He was in a long term relationship before that and shown, as a child, to have distinct control issues.

Cookie_Monster

Deleted User wrote: »

He was in a long term relationship before that

what's the problem with the long term relationship anyway, Tuvok was married for some 50 years while outside of star fleet. Nothing to suggest or presume he was not living with his family the entire time...
Not quite canon but his family lived with him on Titan as well post Voyager

Deleted User wrote: »

and shown, as a child, to have distinct control issues.

I suppose most Vulcan children would have, I mean those others were bullying him, hardly logical behaviour either. Not having completed their education and mastery of emotion would lead kids to be prone to more emotional out bursts.

Meeting your future self from a parallel (and far superior) universe would also piss you off a lot

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what's the problem with the long term relationship anyway, Tuvok was married for some 50 years while outside of star fleet. Nothing to suggest or presume he was not living with his family the entire time...
Not quite canon but his family lived with him on Titan as well post Voyager


I suppose most Vulcan children would have, I mean those others were bullying him, hardly logical behaviour either. Not having completed their education and mastery of emotion would lead kids to be prone to more emotional out bursts.

Meeting your future self from a parallel (and far superior) universe would also piss you off a lot

Would ya stop, you know enough about Trek to see how completely different those relationships are.
The arguments about ship allocation, the lingering kisses, the physical nature outside of pon'farr

The narrative of the first film is to clearly indicate that he doesn't have control of his anger.

It's a far different Spock as opposed to what the (up to then) slight timeline changes, of George Kirks death, should have affected

malcy

Can't wait till this film and the new series are out so we have something else to talk about than if a character is bloody gay or not. Really starting to bore the arse off me now. Surely there's other aspects we can discuss.

colin produces

I don't hold out any hope for Star Trek:Beyond. It looks like a cheesy mess already.

ItHurtsWhenIP

Takei has spoken ... this on his Facebook about an hour ago:

Good morning from Montana! I’ve been here relaxing on vacation, but have noticed that many of you have been following the “gay Sulu” story and wanted to know why I’m being such a sourpuss. I’m writing to set the record “straight,” if you will.

When the news first broke, I gave a lengthy telephone interview, but the headlines have been misleading. Apparently, controversy makes for better sales! Let me be clear: I am not disappointed that there is a gay character in Star Trek. On the contrary, as I made clear, I am delighted that the Star Trek franchise has addressed this issue, which is truly one of diversity. It is thrilling to know that future generations will not see LGBTs go wholly unrepresented in the Trek universe.

On the specific question of Sulu being gay, when I was first approached with the concept, I responded that I hoped instead that Gene Roddenberry’s original characters and their backgrounds would be respected. How exciting it would be instead if a new hero might be created, whose story could be fleshed out from scratch, rather than reinvented. To me, this would have been even more impactful. While I understand that we are in an alternate timeline with the new Trek movies, for me it seemed less than necessary to tinker with an existing character in order to fulfill Gene’s hope of a truly diverse Trek universe. And while I am flattered that the character of Sulu apparently was selected as an homage to me, this was never about me or what I wanted. It was about being true to Gene’s vision and storytelling.

Gene had wanted long ago to include LGBT characters, and we spoke personally and specifically about the lack of them. Gene understandably felt constrained by the sensitivities of the time. Some fifty years ago, even TV’s first interracial kiss, between Kirk and Uhura, caused our ratings to plummet as the show was censored across much of the South for that scene. Gene made a conscious decision to make the main characters heterosexual, and worked within those parameters to tell incredible stories that still challenged many cultural values of the time. So the lack of gay characters was not some oversight by him; it was a conscious decision with which he grappled. I loved Gene as a friend, and I respected his decision and the context under which he created these stories. On this 50th year anniversary of Star Trek, my hope was to honor his foresight and bravery, as well as his ability to create discussion and diversity despite these constraints.

But Star Trek has always pushed the boundaries and opened new opportunities for actors, including myself. I am eternally grateful to have been part of this incredible and continuing family. I wish John Cho well in the role I once played, and congratulate Simon Pegg on his daring and groundbreaking storytelling. While I would have gone with the development of a new character in this instance, I do fully understand and appreciate what they are doing—as ever, boldly going where no one has gone before. Star Trek will live long and prosper.

AMKC

The European Premiere for this was on in London last night.

There is some interviews on Xpose Just caught the end of them there. Justin Lin was talking.

It will be on again in just under on hour on TV3+1 if anyone wants to see it. Id say the last 25 minutes of Xpose is when its on maybe 20 but 25mins to be safe.

Have seen pics online and have noticed that there was no Zoe Saldana at it. Was surprised by that maybe she is just busy. Anyone else know why she was not there?