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David Norris - Social welfare shouldn't be spent on alcohol
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Apart from student grants, students don't have that money in their hand to spend. And registration fees are rising and not cheap. Some people indeed see them as a sly way of getting students to pay fees. And as a student grant recipient myself, mine was never squandered. It went almost entirely on rent. Drinking was done after everything else was paid. Most students I knew had part time jobs as well, and if they want to spend that money on socialising, so be it. It's not really comparable, but I have to say I don't agree with DN's views either.
do you think that people are deaf and blind? Do you honestly, hand on heart think that we dont see and hear students get absolutely **** faced all the time? fresher week? youtube? The main streets of the cities on student nights?
I have known many students over the years, some were genuinely poor and survived on the grant, some didnt qualify for a grant and worked part time to pay their way and then there was those that pissed the grant up against the wall or on holidays. You fall somewhere in the middle by the sounds of it but lets remember, your not going to college for my benefit, your going so you get the education you need for your dèsìred career.
IM not against welfare, we have a social responsibility to assist others in their time of need and its a ****ing disgrace that after working all your life and paying a pension both the payments and the resulting pension are taxed BUT and I repeat but, if you dont contribute to the pot, you shouldnt eat from it.0 -
As of April 2015 the unemployed rate stands at 9.7%. In 2000 it stood at 4.1%, the lowest in history.
personally I dont consider that to be the odd person. Thats 4.7 of the fit for work persons who didnt bother their arses and still dont bother their arses.*
*These numbers apply to those on jobseekers allowance and benefit, not disability or pensions. Those in this thread including them are either unaware of the difference or trying to muddy the water
3% is the average of unemployment in a developed economy don't let that get in the way of a ridiculous rant. Remind us again how many people are in that population that has 90% unemployment. You know that would be a very significant number.0 -
KomradeBishop wrote: »What I don't get about all this "my tax dollars funding...*inane ranting* (literally in this case)" bollocks, is why people don't apply these views consistently?
Lets take private utility services, that you can't avoid: If you have to pay for electricity, telephone, now water, heating etc. - and the only difference is which provider you choose (and a lot of markets here are a bit cartel-like, so the idea of 'choice' is even a bit airy...), then it's a mandatory payment with very little difference to a tax, then why shouldn't you also demand a say in how that money is spent?
We all know there's no such thing as "voting with your feet", when you've only got a handful of equally shítty service providers to choose from, where your only real choice is the minutiae/manner in which they screw you - so why do people accept the idea that we should have no say over that, yet go on about the 'my tax dollars funding *blah*' nonsense?
These private providers exert significant control over our lives, and over huge sectors of the economy - effectively governing a wide swathe of the economy and society - and we allow them to exist, through laws regulating companies (no company exists without state consent) - so if we're to be consistent, we should be demanding a greater say over what they do with money we spend with them as well.
A lot of money from the public goes into funding ridiculous salaries and whatnot, among service providers that can't be avoided - taking a far greater hit out of our pockets than any dole recipients buying alcohol - and that kind of stuff is widely regarded as increasing inequality in general, so why not get pissed-off/morally-indignant about something that actually matters, instead another stupid discussion about how dole recipients spend their money?
If a private company ****s me over I leave that company. If they dont represent value for money I leave that company and I think most people actually do give out about how this money is spent. If its not on infrastructure and service but all going into the ceo's pocket people would indeed leave the company.
I dont recall ever having that choice with social welfare but would certainly welcome such a move. Stop paying tax and hire private systems so I am essentially purchasing my own private job insurance like I do health and pension.
Oh and lets talk about private health insurance while were at it. heaven forbid a working person uses the public system and doesnt take out private insurance, sure we all know that the public system is only for the non tax paying public. ironic, you work and pay tax that funds the system but are pushed into having private insurance to use the system whereas the 4.1% never have nor will pay a cent0 -
To my shame I squandered plenty of mine. After I paid rent bills books etc pretty much all of my grant and wages from part time job went on beer...
I worked in a bakery and ate literally nothing but leftover cake all of first year!!! Good times..nApart from student grants, students don't have that money in their hand to spend. And registration fees are rising and not cheap. Some people indeed see them as a sly way of getting students to pay fees. And as a student grant recipient myself, mine was never squandered. It went almost entirely on rent. Drinking was done after everything else was paid. Most students I knew had part time jobs as well, and if they want to spend that money on socialising, so be it. It's not really comparable, but I have to say I don't agree with DN's views either.0 -
What Norris said was pretty stupid, but it was in the context of the debate about minimum unit pricing. So basically.
"hey Mr Norris, don't you think it's terrible that people on welfare will have to pay more for cans" and his response was effectively "no".
Someone said on page one he's on meds, and I've heard those meds make you absolutely loopy. So I'd say he just ended up going unscripted and spurting ****.0 -
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That's not really true though - in the major provider markets that you can't avoid, there are only a handful of providers to choose from - and each usually as crap as the other, just in different ways.If a private company ****s me over I leave that company. If they dont represent value for money I leave that company and I think most people actually do give out about how this money is spent. If its not on infrastructure and service but all going into the ceo's pocket people would indeed leave the company.
I dont recall ever having that choice with social welfare but would certainly welcome such a move. Stop paying tax and hire private systems so I am essentially purchasing my own private job insurance like I do health and pension.
Oh and lets talk about private health insurance while were at it. heaven forbid a working person uses the public system and doesnt take out private insurance, sure we all know that the public system is only for the non tax paying public. ironic, you work and pay tax that funds the system but are pushed into having private insurance to use the system whereas the 4.1% never have nor will pay a cent
The idea that there is always an issue-free provider to choose is a myth - choice doesn't mean a thing when your options are limited; a bit like what Henry Ford said:
"Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black."
People don't even have a clue of what the salaries are in the charities they donate to, nevermind the service providers - can anyone here cite the salaries in a major service provider, without Googling? Doubt it.
No though - people will argue for pages and pages over the minutiae of how a dole recipient spends their money, with barely a thought put into how money they mandatorily have to spend elsewhere goes...0 -
Seriously who votes for this toss Pot. The Senate is a pure waste of money. What does he even do bar pontificate? What is his purpose?0
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KomradeBishop wrote: »What I don't get about all this "my tax dollars funding...*inane ranting* (literally in this case)" bollocks, is why people don't apply these views consistently?
Lets take private utility services, that you can't avoid: If you have to pay for electricity, telephone, now water, heating etc. - and the only difference is which provider you choose (and a lot of markets here are a bit cartel-like, so the idea of 'choice' is even a bit airy...), then it's a mandatory payment with very little difference to a tax, then why shouldn't you also demand a say in how that money is spent?
We all know there's no such thing as "voting with your feet", when you've only got a handful of equally shítty service providers to choose from, where your only real choice is the minutiae/manner in which they screw you - so why do people accept the idea that we should have no say over that, yet go on about the 'my tax dollars funding *blah*' nonsense?
These private providers exert significant control over our lives, and over huge sectors of the economy - effectively governing a wide swathe of the economy and society - and we allow them to exist, through laws regulating companies (no company exists without state consent) - so if we're to be consistent, we should be demanding a greater say over what they do with money we spend with them as well.
A lot of money from the public goes into funding ridiculous salaries and whatnot, among service providers that can't be avoided - taking a far greater hit out of our pockets than any dole recipients buying alcohol - and that kind of stuff is widely regarded as increasing inequality in general, so why not get pissed-off/morally-indignant about something that actually matters, instead another stupid discussion about how dole recipients spend their money?
The difference is you can choose to not have electricity.0 -
You will find chancers in every area of society from wealthy politicians to tax evading/avoiding multimillionaires and business owners to those on the dole. Why do some people only ever focus on the most disadvantaged in our society? I haven't lived in Ireland for years but from what I can gather on here, the attitude towards the unemployed claiming social benefits in Ireland is like nothing I've ever come across anywhere else. Yes, of course there are those who absolutely take the piss but why should the large majority of people who respect the rules and are genuine cases be punished as a result? It seems the age old adage of "Don't judge [insert group here] by the actions of a few" seems to go completely out of the window when it comes to the unemployed. Some very heartless attitudes on here that are disappointing to read.0
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I'm not worried one way or another about this issue; it's not going to change, and if it did, I don't see what great benefit we'd see.
But I assume everybody who believes "it's nobody else's business, they can spend their dole as they see fit" would be equally supportive of the middle classes spending their child benefit on wine or holidays. Or, for that matter, putting it into private education or healthcare.
Yep, no problem with that at all so long as they are genuinely entitled to it and the needs of their children are met before it's spent on wine, holidays. I don't support private education or healthcare but if people want to spend their money on them what business is it of me?0 -
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Seriously who votes for this toss Pot. The Senate is a pure waste of money. What does he even do bar pontificate? What is his purpose?
defending his poet friend according to Wikipedia
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gay-poet-denies-hes-a-stud-preying-on-innocent-youths-26433172.htmlhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairytale_of_Kathmandu#Defence_of_.C3.93_SearcaighOn 11 March 2008, Norris called for the broadcast of the documentary Fairytale of Kathmandu (scheduled to be shown that evening on RTÉ) to be postponed. The film documented visits to Nepal by Irish poet Cathal Ó Searcaigh, during which he had sex with young boys. It questioned whether he was sexually exploiting the boys or engaging in child sex tourism. Norris criticised that the film had been leaked beforehand and that Ó Searcaigh had been treated harshly by the media before its broadcast.0 -
LexieOnRale wrote: »I used to raid my dads fridge for the week and buy noodles and bread for toast to be able to drink my "weekly allowance". My father paid my rent and gave me X amount per week for food/going out. Save the food money to drink it.
That's sad. Sacrificing your health to go out and get pissed. Hope for your sake you've grown out of that way of living. And also learned to stand on your own too feet and pay your own way.0 -
Greentopia wrote: »That's sad. Sacrificing your health to go out and get pissed. Hope for your sake you've grown out of that way of living. And also learned to stand on your own too feet and pay your own way.
Well, I have to haven't I? Both my parents are dead and I've never free loaded off the state. In a good place in my life, earning enough money to burn the candle at whatever end I choose. Thanks for your concern all the same0 -
Yea that's great - I'm sure if electricity providers decide to co-operate in collectively screwing around their customers, people will just be able to 'vote with their feet' and boycott electricity altogether.Iwasfrozen wrote: »The difference is you can choose to not have electricity.
Virtually nobody in this country - except those who pretend to where it suits their argument - think electricity services are a 'choice'.0 -
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KomradeBishop wrote: »Yea that's great - I'm sure if electricity providers decide to co-operate in collectively screwing around their customers, people will just be able to 'vote with their feet' and boycott electricity altogether.
Virtually nobody in this country - except those who pretend to where it suits their argument - think electricity services are a 'choice'.
And they ask the ER for a raise in price and get told to have a bigger one. I'm sure someone will be along soon with the red herring of a slight drop this year. Oil gas have been cheap for years.0 -
LexieOnRale wrote: »Well, I have to haven't I? Both my parents are dead and I've never free loaded off the state. In a good place in my life, earning enough money to burn the candle at whatever end I choose. Thanks for your concern all the same
Sorry to hear that, both mine are gone too. I don't see anyone having to rely on the State for money to survive when they're unemployed as being "free loaders".
It's the mark of a civilised society that we look after the less fortunate.
Terms like 'free loaders' is right wing propaganda Governments love to hear the general public spew; the language of class hatred, breaking the natural solidarity and empathy human beings have so we fight each other and blame the poor for our problems instead of the people who have robbed us of billions.
These are manipulation and distraction techniques. Recognise them for what they are and stop being a useful pawn for those who care not a whit for you, only what they can get from you to enrich themselves further.0 -
I have no problem with people on the dole for X amount of time after falling on hard times, losing their job, etc.
But, unless you're old and unskilled there's no reason for someone to be on the dole long term, especially those who spend their entire 20s taking the guts of 190 a week and contributing nothing.
They're vulnerable because they will not help themselves. They make themselves unemployable because who wants to hire someone who hasn't worked in 8 years?
And what does the Irish government do? Enable them.0 -
LexieOnRale wrote: »I used to raid my dads fridge for the week and buy noodles and bread for toast to be able to drink my "weekly allowance". My father paid my rent and gave me X amount per week for food/going out. Save the food money to drink it.
No offense Lexie but I worked with some of the poorest students out there. Many would kill to have their rent paid for them. The start you received in life minimises the chance you'd end up on the dole.
You might have seen the report on RTE about rents around the country. Well many students are struggling to afford the rents and some had to drop out of college because they couldn't afford rent. Its because of the lack of parental support that they're more likely to end up on the dole.
It's all well and good judging people on the dole but most of the time people live off the state because they have to. If you look at a lot of the people on the dole (the genuine cases) they didn't receive the support early in life that prevents them receiving support now.
I'm not saying you think like this but one or two of the students I taught in UCD had some strange attitudes towards the dole. They viewed their parental handouts as somehow morally superior to state handouts that people need to eat ect.0 -
Greentopia wrote: »...Terms like 'free loaders' is right wing propaganda...
There is no "Right Wing" here. The do-gooder religious bully-boys and their Mad O'Duffy-inspired Government sponsors flatter themselves. An actual Right
Wing worth the appelation would see those creatures skinned alive.0 -
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KomradeBishop wrote: »Yea that's great - I'm sure if electricity providers decide to co-operate in collectively screwing around their customers, people will just be able to 'vote with their feet' and boycott electricity altogether.
Virtually nobody in this country - except those who pretend to where it suits their argument - think electricity services are a 'choice'.
Of course buying electricity is a choice. My parents didn't have electricity growing up, they managed to survive. As did the vast majority of humans who have lived on the planet.
Not paying taxes on the other hand will put me in prison so the two aren't comparable.0 -
You know it's this attitude that annoys me. I had a girl I know turn around to me once and say "it was alright for you, we don't all have rich daddies".steddyeddy wrote: »No offense Lexie but I worked with some of the poorest students out there. Many would kill to have their rent paid for them. The start you received in life minimises the chance you'd end up on the dole.
You might have seen the report on RTE about rents around the country. Well many students are struggling to afford the rents and some had to drop out of college because they couldn't afford rent. Its because of the lack of parental support that they're more likely to end up on the dole.
It's all well and good judging people on the dole but most of the time people live of the state because they have to. If you look at a lot of the people on the dole (the genuine cases) they didn't receive the support early in life that prevents them receiving support now.
I'm not saying you think like this but one or two of the students I taught in UCD had some strange attitudes towards the dole. T
I hate this attitude for many reasons. Let me tell you a few.
1. My father was working from when he was really young. Missing days of school at times so he could work. Working after school. Worked all his life, worked in the mornings and evenings on days he had chemo. Worked 7 days a week. Rarely took days off for family holidays any longer than a few days. My mother worked too, working nights, working long days, working over Christmases/Easter and other holidays other people were off for.
They had two kids, what they could afford to rear and send to college. We had a comfortable childhood because my parents worked enough to make sure we did.
We had a good chance at school, we had a mother who stood over us every evening to make sure we did our homework, who helped us and checked it. We got in trouble if we didn't do well in tests or if we got bad reports home.
When college time rolled around for me, 6 weeks into my first year, my mother died. My dad - as a single parent then had two grieving teenagers on his hands. 1 still in school and 1 to put through college. There was no grants helping him, or helping me. I did what most unsupervised teens did, drank, partied, crammed entire semesters in a matter of weeks, and got myself through college. Got myself through the leaving cert into college in the first place.
Then you have this girl,
Mam and dad who have never worked for as long as I knew them (24 years at present)
Mam and dad who didn't care about the kids not going to school/being suspended
Mam who wouldn't even be up in time to make sure they were up for school
Mam and dad who knew all their entitlements, council house medical cards, grants.
Mam and dad who encouraged the girl I'm talking about to sign up for the dole as soon as she turned 18.
The girl failed maths but got accepted into a Plc. Hated it, left.
Went back to repeat some LC subjects, hated it, left.
Girl started another Plc, hated it, left.
Girl got into a course in IT. Left by mid October.
Girl went back as a mature student a few years ago to do science, her "dream". Lasted til Christmas, left. She was getting money to go to college, still never went.
Now she's 26, living in her mam and dads council house, hasn't worked EVER, never has had a job. Has a leaving cert without maths but no courses after that.
Posts stories on snapchat of Monday Club and Saturday night sociables.
That girl who had many chances to go to college, who was recieving money to go to college, turned around with an attitude similar to yours and told me the only reason I am where I am is because I had a rich father.
And it's wrong. I am where I am because I was taught whatever you have in life is what you work for, nothing is for nothing. Nobody owes you anything. You owe it to yourself. I am where I am because my father was working since he was 13/14 years old. I am where I am because my mother sacrificed her time with us as a family to provide for us. I am where I am because I had good parents who made sure I got through school, into college, and I had the support of my father until I was able to stand on my own two feet and who was in a position to be self sufficient and able to take care of myself when I was left with nobody to look out for me at the age of 25.0 -
LexieOnRale wrote: »You know it's this attitude that annoys me. I had a girl I know turn around to me once and say "it was alright for you, we don't all have rich daddies".
I didn't say rich or that you should be gracious. I got where I am in life because I worked extremely hard without parental support. Someone today told me that I should be more gracious and I told them to go f*&k themselves.
I'm simply saying don't judge those who may not have had your start in life.I hate this attitude for many reasons. Let me tell you a few.
1. My father was working from when he was really young. Missing days of school at times so he could work. Working after school. Worked all his life, worked in the mornings and evenings on days he had chemo. Worked 7 days a week. Rarely took days off for family holidays any longer than a few days. My mother worked too, working nights, working long days, working over Christmases/Easter and other holidays other people were off for.
He sounds like a great guy. A lot like me in fact. I'm not saying they didn't work hard. I'm saying that other people would kill for parents like them.They had two kids, what they could afford to rear and send to college. We had a comfortable childhood because my parents worked enough to make sure we did.
We had a good chance at school, we had a mother who stood over us every evening to make sure we did our homework, who helped us and checked it. We got in trouble if we didn't do well in tests or if we got bad reports home.
Again they sound great but why judge those who may not have had that?When college time rolled around for me, 6 weeks into my first year, my mother died. My dad - as a single parent then had two grieving teenagers on his hands. 1 still in school and 1 to put through college. There was no grants helping him, or helping me. I did what most unsupervised teens did, drank, partied, crammed entire semesters in a matter of weeks, and got myself through college. Got myself through the leaving cert into college in the first place.
Fair play that must have been tough. I had no mother or father or their support for my secondary or third level education so I know it's not easy.Then you have this girl,
Mam and dad who have never worked for as long as I knew them (24 years at present)
Mam and dad who didn't care about the kids not going to school/being suspended
Mam who wouldn't even be up in time to make sure they were up for school
Mam and dad who knew all their entitlements, council house medical cards, grants.
Mam and dad who encouraged the girl I'm talking about to sign up for the dole as soon as she turned 18.
You see Lexie you're illustrating my point. You've described the path the girl's parents took and the lack of support they gave her daughter. How can you not think how a child is raised will determine their attitudes towards college ect? Do you think this effected the girl positively or negatively?The girl failed maths but got accepted into a Plc. Hated it, left.
Went back to repeat some LC subjects, hated it, left.
Girl started another Plc, hated it, left.
Girl got into a course in IT. Left by mid October.
Girl went back as a mature student a few years ago to do science, her "dream". Lasted til Christmas, left. She was getting money to go to college, still never went.
She received zero support from her parents so what do you expect? I certainly wouldn't judge the girl for it and she shouldn't have judged you. Again it illustrates my point.Now she's 26, living in her mam and dads council house, hasn't worked EVER, never has had a job. Has a leaving cert without maths but no courses after that.
Posts stories on snapchat of Monday Club and Saturday night sociables.
I feel sorry for her. She never believed she could go to college. Her parents had an appalling way of living (IMHO) and should have taught their daughter the value of education. Can you understand how hard it is for a son or daughter to turn around and say tell themselves that their parent's lifestyle is wrong? Breaking the mould is a very hard thing to do.That girl who had many chances to go to college, who was recieving money to go to college, turned around with an attitude similar to yours and told me the only reason I am where I am is because I had a rich father.
Well I disagree with the girl. I think support and encouragement is more important than the money. I also disagree with you in that I think you can't judge people without knowing what led to where they are now.And it's wrong. I am where I am because I was taught whatever you have in life is what you work for, nothing is for nothing. Nobody owes you anything. You owe it to yourself. I am where I am because my father was working since he was 13/14 years old.
Indeed but similarly a lot of people are where they are because their father didn't.I am where I am because my mother sacrificed her time with us as a family to provide for us. I am where I am because I had good parents who made sure I got through school, into college, and I had the support of my father until I was able to stand on my own two feet and who was in a position to be self sufficient and able to take care of myself when I was left with nobody to look out for me at the age of 25.
Indeed. Your parents sound great. However why would you not understand some people are where they are today exactly because their parents did the opposite of yours?
I'd also like to add that although my mother did help me I am where I am today because of me. We can only blame or thank our parents so much.0 -
steddyeddy wrote: »He sounds like a great guy. A lot like me in fact.
I had no mother or father or ..............
I'd also like to add that although my mother did help me ...........
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steddyeddy wrote: »LexieOnRale wrote: »You know it's this attitude that annoys me. I had a girl I know turn around to me once and say "it was alright for you, we don't all have rich daddies".
I didn't say rich or that you should be gracious. I got where I am in life because I worked extremely hard without parental support. Someone today told me that I should be more gracious and I told them to go f*&k themselves.
I'm simply saying don't judge those who may not have had your start in life.
He sounds like a great guy. A lot like me in fact. I'm not saying they didn't work hard. I'm saying that other people would kill for parents like them.
Again they sound great but why judge those who may not have had that?
Fair play that must have been tough. I had no mother or father or their support for my secondary or third level education so I know it's not easy.
You see Lexie you're illustrating my point. You've described the path the girl's parents took and the lack of support they gave her daughter. How can you not think how a child is raised will determine their attitudes towards college ect? Do you think this effected the girl positively or negatively?
She received zero support from her parents so what do you expect? I certainly wouldn't judge the girl for it and she shouldn't have judged you. Again it illustrates my point.
I feel sorry for her. She never believed she could go to college. Her parents had an appalling way of living (IMHO) and should have taught their daughter the value of education. Can you understand how hard it is for a son or daughter to turn around and say tell themselves that their parent's lifestyle is wrong? Breaking the mould is a very hard thing to do.
Well I disagree with the girl. I think support and encouragement is more important than the money. I also disagree with you in that I think you can't judge people without knowing what led to where they are now.
Indeed but similarly a lot of people are where they are because their father didn't.
Indeed. Your parents sound great. However why would you not understand some people are where they are today exactly because their parents did the opposite of yours?
I'd also like to add that although my mother did help me I am where I am today because of me. We can only blame or thank our parents so much.
Because Steddy, at 20 odd years old you decide to become your own person. I buy this "you can't help who your family are" when you're a child and have no choice. It's the same attitude shown to anti social families, ah sure what chance do the kids have?
You might not have a mother and father who'll get up and bring you to school when you're young enough to need them but at 15 or 16 you're old enough to do what you need to do, get yourself up and washed and out to school.
And even if you're not, at 23 you have the choice of going to college as a mature student. You cannot blame as an adult your parents for you still doing nothing with your life late 20s.
And it's only being enabled, leaving people like that to claim all sorts of benefits, get Christmas bonuses, reward them for having children they can't support.
"They didn't have the same start as you did" only washes for a certain period, while they're not old enough to create their own start.0 -
Yes there is an excuse: When not enough jobs are made available.LexieOnRale wrote: »I have no problem with people on the dole for X amount of time after falling on hard times, losing their job, etc.
But, unless you're old and unskilled there's no reason for someone to be on the dole long term, especially those who spend their entire 20s taking the guts of 190 a week and contributing nothing.
They're vulnerable because they will not help themselves. They make themselves unemployable because who wants to hire someone who hasn't worked in 8 years?
And what does the Irish government do? Enable them.
You can't blame any unemployed person, for there not being enough jobs to go round.0 -
That's a load of nonsense - virtually nobody in this country goes without electricity, you're doing your 'devils advocate' nonsense again, where you push an argument even you can't credibly believe.Iwasfrozen wrote: »Of course buying electricity is a choice. My parents didn't have electricity growing up, they managed to survive. As did the vast majority of humans who have lived on the planet.
Not paying taxes on the other hand will put me in prison so the two aren't comparable.
If you want to do that devils advocate nonsense, don't do it with me, thanks - it's pretty insulting to expect others to take and debate with your argument seriously, when the argument is so facetious to begin with,0 -
darkpagandeath wrote: »3% is the average of unemployment in a developed economy don't let that get in the way of a ridiculous rant. Remind us again how many people are in that population that has 90% unemployment. You know that would be a very significant number.
if its 3% in a developed country that just proves me point doesnt it? One of the most labour intensive counties during the boom. A time when someone with a junior cert could get work in the building sector. A time when we were bringing skilled AND unskilled labout into the country to fill gaps and we still had, by your own admission, more than the average unemployed. Tell me, how does that not prove me point regarding the seperation between job seekers and job dodgers?
Ireland has been bouncing around the 4%'s from 2000 to 2007 and in 2008 it started to go up, thats when we saw genuine hand on heart workers losing their jobs and needing support via welfare. thats when we saw people who want to work but couldnt.
You may think your defending the hard done by working man but your not, you are insulting him by placing him in the same bracket as the classless wonders or are junkies, career robbers, sneak thiefs, pickpockets, drug dealers and joyriders all just in need of a decent chance and a nice suit to wear to their next interview? Come to work with me for a day and you will see reality0 -
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KomradeBishop wrote: »Yes there is an excuse: When not enough jobs are made available.
You can't blame any unemployed person, for there not being enough jobs to go round.
You're telling me that 1 person in 8 years of searching for a job couldn't find one?0
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