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David Norris - Social welfare shouldn't be spent on alcohol

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    #332
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    gladrags wrote: »
    I did not imply any such thing,you did.

    The houses and rental accommodation available to low income and high income workers ,are becoming increasingly scarce, and increasingly expensive.

    Alcohol aside, or any other luxury aside, it is near impossible for most people to find reasonably priced accommodation.
    Whatever about low income workers the unemployed who can spend money on cans clearly can meet their rent.


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    #333
    Mr. CooL ICE
    Registered Users Posts: 17,536 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    Mod:

    *cough*

    Folks, take a deep breath and remember to refer to this


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    #334
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    There's always money in jobs that no one else wants to do. One day you're calling round to houses on your own asking if they want you to clean their toilet the next thing you have a viable business employing others to clean with you, you're marketing your business in local media and hiring tools/equipment to provide a better service and raise your demand/profile further.

    Sure it doesn't sound glamerous but if you have four kids in that situation (which you shouldn't but let's park that) then most enterprising people would do anything to make sure there is food on their kids plates.

    The problems arise when we foster a culture that discourages enterprise and conditions people to stick their hands out at the first sign of trouble.

    1 out of 10.....


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    #335
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    JaCrispy wrote: »
    If a person on the dole can afford alcohol, holidays or any other luxuries then they are getting too much money from the state.

    The dole is there to provide the primary needs to live such as shelter, food, heat etc...
    suicide_circus wrote: »
    With subsidised rent and fuel allowance there's cash left for cans

    I'm sorry to burst the old bubble of nonsense but these people are not getting money for holidays off the dole office. How should I say this.... Other income. They have done statistics and alike and the old abuse of the system was tiny. They have caught most but don't let that stop people from making it out as rife.


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    #336
    fin12
    Registered Users Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭fin12


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Norris is a snob, he gated his own street maybe he thinks everyone on welfare buys slabs of drink. But they do not. Welfare includes disability, pensioners etc. He has gone down in my estimation as I thought he would be the last person to play on stereotypes. Maybe he thinks reading Joyce is the answer? I left out another bit in his statement he claimed he sees "THEM buying slabs of drink around his area". Enough said.

    Ya I'm really dissapointed in him as well, because I always used to like David Norris, I even voted for him in the Presidency campaign, I meet him and he was really nice. He can't be for equality, he seems be be a hypocrite now after all his speeches about equality during the referendum.


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    #337
    fin12
    Registered Users Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭fin12


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    Your anecdote of working in social welfare is just that - an anecdote. Anecdotes are inferior to stats. The stats prove that you are wrong - there are jobs, but there are not enough jobs.

    Explain why our 'unemployed per job vacancy' figure is so high, for instance? (i.e. the number of unemployed people for every job vacancy)
    http://www.nerinstitute.net/blog/2014/09/02/latest-data-on-the-vacancy-rate/

    ya I went for an interview recently for a temporary contract for 6 months and was told they are interviewing 100 people for 30 to 40 jobs.


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    #338
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    fin12 wrote: »
    ya I went for an interview recently for a temporary contract for 6 months and was told they are interviewing 100 people for 30 to 40 jobs.

    So not enough jobs for applicants Is that not the point being made....


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    #339
    gladrags
    Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Whatever about low income workers the unemployed who can spend money on cans clearly can meet their rent.

    That is a very rash and uninformed statement.

    Some possibly spend too much on drugs,be it alcohol or hash or whatever.

    But there is no reason to believe that the majority of unemployed abuse alcohol,and no statistics to back it up.


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    #340
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    gladrags wrote: »
    That is a very rash and uninformed statement.

    Some possibly spend too much on drugs,be it alcohol or hash or whatever.

    But there is no reason to believe that the majority of unemployed abuse alcohol,and no statistics to back it up.
    Who said they did? Why not issue debit cards that can't be used to purchase alcohol, cigarettes or place bets in the bookies.

    Those who don't purchase alcohol, cigarettes or place bets in the bookies wouldn't be affected by this so I can't see what the problem would be.


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    #341
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    1 out of 10.....
    ... cats? do you have a point to make or....


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    #342
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Who said they did? Why not issue debit cards that can't be used to purchase alcohol, cigarettes or place bets in the bookies.

    Because "they" as you put it would just buy other stuff and sell that on.

    Iwasfrozen wrote:
    Sure it doesn't sound glamerous but if you have four kids in that situation (which you shouldn't but let's park that) then most enterprising people would do anything to make sure there is food on their kids plates.

    So, you want them to go into the "black economy" or whatever it's called then ?


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    #343
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    ... cats? do you have a point to make or....

    Yes, Nonsensical nonsense about knocking door to door is nonsense. If you tried that in an Urban area people would probably call the police on you for scoping out properties to rob for a start. It's not the 1800s anymore unsolicited contact at the door generally get nowhere. Also working on the dole is illegal. You would need to set-up a company to do this for a start. One has not really thought it through.

    As others have said sounds like one wants people to work in the black economy and not pay tax is that correct ?


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    #344
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Because "they" as you put it would just buy other stuff and sell that on.
    What are they going to buy? Who are they going to sell it to? Are they going to buy in bulk on 188 euro a week?
    So, you want them to go into the "black economy" or whatever it's called then ?
    Nope I don't want them to go into the black economy, if they do that's their choice and if caught they should be severely punished.


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    #345
    KenjiOdo
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭KenjiOdo


    Just shows how out of touch this man is with society.. good thing he didn't make president...


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    #346
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    What are they going to buy? Who are they going to sell it to? Are they going to buy in bulk on 188 euro a week?


    Nope I don't want them to go into the black economy, if they do that's their choice and if caught they should be severely punished.

    Where is the money for the company coming from ? Cant go to my bank manager with no market saying I'm going to knock door to door looking for work.


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    #347
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Who said they did? Why not issue debit cards that can't be used to purchase alcohol, cigarettes or place bets in the bookies.

    Those who don't purchase alcohol, cigarettes or place bets in the bookies wouldn't be affected by this so I can't see what the problem would be.

    How would that work regarding demoralising people? Also how much would go back into the economy VS the purchasing of luxury items?


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    #348
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Yes, Nonsensical nonsense about knocking door to door is nonsense. If you tried that in an Urban area people would probably call the police on you for scoping out properties to rob for a start. It's not the 1800s anymore unsolicited contact at the door generally get nowhere. Also working on the dole is illegal. You would need to set-up a company to do this for a start. One has not really thought it through.

    As others have said sounds like one wants people to work in the black economy and not pay tax is that correct ?
    You say knocking on your neighbours door will get a person arrested and you accuse me of speaking nonsense? :)

    Anyway I agree the ban on working while on the dole is ridiculous, I would have that restriction removed and the dole lowered to compensate. You don't need to set up a company initially, that can come once established.


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    #349
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You say knocking on your neighbours door will get a person arrested and you accuse me of speaking nonsense? :)

    Anyway I agree the ban on working while on the dole is ridiculous, I would have that restriction removed and the dole lowered to compensate. You don't need to set up a company initially, that can come once established.

    So working for cash in hand yes ?


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    #350
    gladrags
    Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Who said they did? Why not issue debit cards that can't be used to purchase alcohol, cigarettes or place bets in the bookies.

    Those who don't purchase alcohol, cigarettes or place bets in the bookies wouldn't be affected by this so I can't see what the problem would be.

    The health system in the private,public and voluntary
    sector,has to deal with an almost unsurmountable problem ,within many facets of society.

    For example,it is not the unemployed we need to be concerned with,whrn it comes to gambling,surely you know what I mean.

    There are a lot of state run institutions,that need their credit card removed.

    Hint -Celtic Tiger.

    You are talking tip of the iceberg,stop the drug cartels,and the alcohol cartels,that we as a society accept obiediently,and without question.

    Problem solved.


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    #351
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    How would that work regarding demoralising people? Also how much would go back into the economy VS the purchasing of luxury items?
    Accepting social charity is by its nature demoralizing, it's never going to be a noble profession. My concern is misappropriation of tax payers money.


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    #352
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    ......... You don't need to set up a company initially, that can come once established.

    What makes the first 6 months different from the rest ? ( accident / liability wise etc )


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    #353
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Accepting social charity is by its nature demoralizing, it's never going to be a noble profession. My concern is misappropriation of tax payers money.

    Like working for cash in hand in the black economy and not paying tax as one has suggested ?


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    #354
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    So working for cash in hand yes ?
    I imagine most cases would be cash in hand but it need not be exclusive. Before you say it the trader should of course be tax compliant, tax rates on small businesses in this country are scandalous but that's another matter.


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    #355
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I imagine most cases would be cash in hand but it need not be exclusive. Before you say it the trader should of course be tax compliant, tax rates on small businesses in this country are scandalous but that's another matter.

    So one is advocating breaking the law yes ? One wants people to break the law to be seen to get a job... That will end well. It's not bob a job week when one is 12.


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    #356
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I 100% absolutely disagree.

    It's their money, and they should get to spend it as they see fit - and it's a matter for businesses to decide how they will price the goods that they sell without the nanny state coming along and interfering with them because some big whinging illiberal sissies don't like something.


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    #357
    mikeym
    Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    I hate snobs.


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    #358
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    So one is advocating breaking the law yes ? One wants people to break the law to be seen to get a job... That will end well. It's not bob a job week when one is 12.
    Nope.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's their money, and they should get to spend it as they see fit - and it's a matter for businesses to decide how they will price the goods that they sell without the nanny state coming along and interfering with them because some big whinging illiberal sissies don't like something.
    It's money given with conditions attached. It is not unconditional money


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    #359
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I imagine most cases would be cash in hand but it need not be exclusive.

    That makes it difficult for people already set up in the same trade or whatever, tiny overheads, they'll just get undercut to bits


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    #360
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Nope.

    So ones idea is nonsense yes ? You know people going door to door looking for work to be seen as good dole people ? As it's illegal.


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    #361
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    gctest50 wrote: »
    That makes it difficult for people already set up in the same trade or whatever, tiny overheads, they'll just get undercut to bits
    The key is to identity weaknesses in the market, use local knowledge to know who is doing what and set out to fulfil a needed service. Sure it's hard but life is hard, that's how it is.
    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    So ones idea is nonsense yes ? You know people going door to door looking for work to be seen as good dole people ? As it's illegal.
    With regards to working on the dole being illegal I refer you to my earlier post to your good self.

    "Anyway I agree the ban on working while on the dole is ridiculous, I would have that restriction removed and the dole lowered to compensate."


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