Number26/N26 Mastercard/Account now for Irish Residents

Yggr of Asgard

And it's bad day for N26, more legal trouble.

They have been fined 50,000€ for putting ex-customers onto a blacklist which was supposed to be only used for people who are suspected to conduct activity suspicious under the money laundering law.

This had the effect that old customers could not re-open an account with N26.

pasquale83

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

And it's bad day for N26, more legal trouble.

They have been fined 50,000€ for putting ex-customers onto a blacklist which was supposed to be only used for people who are suspected to conduct activity suspicious under the money laundering law.

This had the effect that old customers could not re-open an account with N26.

I know that in Germany is not possible to re-open an account with the same bank within 5 years after account closure - is that related?

Yggr of Asgard

pasquale83 wrote: »

I know that in Germany is not possible to re-open an account with the same bank within 5 years after account closure - is that related?

Well the 5 year rule is a business decision not a law.

The problem here is that they put their ex customers onto a list that had a special purpose under the anti money laundry law and that is a breach of rules.

They could have keep a different list. However they announced now that they will allow ex customers to return at any point.

pasquale83

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Well the 5 year rule is a business decision not a law.

The problem here is that they put their ex customers onto a list that had a special purpose under the anti money laundry law and that is a breach of rules.

They could have keep a different list. However they announced now that they will allow ex customers to return at any point.

Thanks, that'a a good news. I've recently closed the account and I've been waiting for long just because I knew it was not possible to reopen it.

Bob24

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

N26 is in trouble with the German Financial Regulator:



Source: BaFin

Goes to show N26 are a bit amateur and probably too focused on expending onto other markets rather than getting things right at home (nothing described in the order seems like it is a major headache).

But I assume all the points mentioned by the regulator are things they can fix fairly easily as long as they put ressources onto it.

jester77

Bob24 wrote: »

Goes to show N26 are a bit amateur and probably too focused on expending onto other markets rather than getting things right at home (nothing described in the order seems like it is a major headache).

But I assume all the points mentioned by the regulator are things they can fix fairly easily as long as they put ressources onto it.

They already issued a statement yesterday stating that they have resolved most issues, with the remaining to be completed by end of next week. And they have hired additional staff as was recommended.

Yggr of Asgard

jester77 wrote: »

They already issued a statement yesterday stating that they have resolved most issues, with the remaining to be completed by end of next week. And they have hired additional staff as was recommended.

You mean this:
Statement of N26 on their blog

Which has this in there:

As a trusted customer, we want to assure you that you will be unaffected by the BaFin order.

Which clearly is wrong as they have not completed the re-verification that the BaFin has ordered 4 days ago and they even admit it a just a couple of sentences above that statement:

In addition, we will continue to carry out re-verification of customers where necessary.

The statement is pure marketing/PR spin of a serious order of BaFin which followed a recent "visit" of BaFin to their offices.

nirvana78

Direct debit due out of N26 account today and I added sufficient funds this morning. Will the direct debit be paid? Is there a cut off time for adding funds? Thank you

kenmc

I had a DD come out at around 5pm one day, so it's not just "first thing".

nirvana78

kenmc wrote: »

I had a DD come out at around 5pm one day, so it's not just "first thing".

Thank you for your response, it has come out this afternoon, not sure what time exactly but I'm sure this will help others.

Yggr of Asgard

And further trouble for N26 customers.

Some German Banks are no longer allowing automatic transfers to N26, instead each transaction is manually validated by contacting the sender as "there has been an increased amount of fraudulent transactions towards N26 accounts".

My understanding is that this is because the banks do not get in time replies from N26 when it comes to questionable transactions, attempts to get transactions back or simple questions.

alwald

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

And further trouble for N26 customers.

Some German Banks are no longer allowing automatic transfers to N26, instead each transaction is manually validated by contacting the sender as "there has been an increased amount of fraudulent transactions towards N26 accounts".

My understanding is that this is because the banks do not get in time replies from N26 when it comes to questionable transactions, attempts to get transactions back or simple questions.

Any link to read on the above please?

Yggr of Asgard

alwald wrote: »

Any link to read on the above please?

In German:

https://www.mobiflip.de/shortnews/n26-ueberweisung-auf-eis/

alwald

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

In German:

https://www.mobiflip.de/shortnews/n26-ueberweisung-auf-eis/

It seems that only one bank in Germany, that I haven't heard of before, is possibly no longer allowing automatic transfers to N26 based on one screenshot linked to one transaction.

Yggr of Asgard

alwald wrote: »

It seems that only one bank in Germany, that I haven't heard of before, is possibly no longer allowing automatic transfers to N26 based on one screenshot linked to one transaction.

It is definitely more than one, even N26 has acknowledged that:

https://twitter.com/n26/status/1133275358747353088?s=19

They call it individual cases with multiple banks in their own tweet, so clearly it is more than one.

alwald

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

It is definitely more than one, even N26 has acknowledged that:

https://twitter.com/n26/status/1133275358747353088?s=19

They call it individual cases with multiple banks in their own tweet, so clearly it is more than one.

One from the article you posted...in any case this is not concerning at all as Bafin was clear in its recommendations and N26 are in the process of hiring the required staff. There wasn't even a significant fine or sanction so clearly it's not a big deal.

Yggr of Asgard

alwald wrote: »

One from the article you posted...in any case this is not concerning at all as Bafin was clear in its recommendations and N26 are in the process of hiring the required staff. There wasn't even a significant fine or sanction so clearly it's not a big deal.

To call an order from Bafin about failures to comply with regulations "not concerning" is certainly one point of view. Fines or other orders might still come.

Following the fine for putting customers wrongfully on the deny list Bafin is also looking into this as it breaks regulations.

N26 just grown to quickly, cut corners and did not have the right staff to ensure they follow all rules.

For example a good bank following rules would very early have spotted that a gang of fraudsters tricked people into opening bank accounts. But due to rushed and substandard way the IDNow validation was done for a while it got misused. Such an investigation by the state police actually triggered the Bafin order.


Plus it's not the first time that other banks put restrictions on N26, bunq for a while stopped nstant sepa.

N26 has challenges, the question is if they manage to turn it around.

alwald

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

To call an order from Bafin about failures to comply with regulations "not concerning" is certainly one point of view. Fines or other orders might still come.

Yes this order as it stands isn't concerning at all in the bigger scheme of things and in comparison with other banks that have been fined billions.

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Following the fine for putting customers wrongfully on the deny list Bafin is also looking into this as it breaks regulations.

Which regulation are you referring to?

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

N26 just grown to quickly, cut corners and did not have the right staff to ensure they follow all rules.

You are making up allegations here.

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

For example a good bank following rules would very early have spotted that a gang of fraudsters tricked people into opening bank accounts. But due to rushed and substandard way the IDNow validation was done for a while it got misused. Such an investigation by the state police actually triggered the Bafin order.

Start by giving me an example of a bank that was never fined or received an order from a regulator following an audit?

Yggr of Asgard

alwald wrote: »

Which regulation are you referring to? You are making up allegations here.

Example of cutting corners:
N26 had a policy of not allowing customers that terminated their accounts to reopen an account within 6 years. Instead of implementing a compliant solution they put those customers onto a list designed solely to stop people who are suspected of money laundering.
Result:
50,000€ fine under the Data Protection Legislation and further investigations of Bafin under the German Anti Money Laundering law, as this was discovered after the recent site audit.
They also still have to comply with the order by the Data Protection Supervisor to tell customers impacted by this (of which several are ex customers on the board here).

Example of cutting corners:
Under the agreement of banks operating in Germany with the German Central bank, banks require to have special hot lines and reaction times when notified about suspected fraudulent transactions. N26 agreed but has only so limited staff that they are unable to react in time to requests from other banks. This is a contributing factor why bank are hesitant to transfer money to N26.

alwald wrote: »

Start by giving me an example of a bank that was never fined or received an order from a regulator following an audit?

What has that to do with the fact that N26 clearly is not able to cope with the influx of new customers and is not able to deal with them in line with the requirements of BaFin which lead to the order. Just because other banks too have errors is not an excuse.

The 2nd on site visit of BaFin was driven after 2 State Crime Agencies notified BaFin that sub standard Identification methods were used that allowed accounts being opened by fraudsters and than used in criminal activity. This is the case for at least 400 incidents. While other banks comply with regulation from April 2017 state "this verification is for your request to open an account" N26 provider did not, they actually refused to state why the ID verification was needed which enabled this in the first place. They have changed this now, nearly 2 years later. (See a pattern here).

And that is just what has currently been published by the relevant authorities.

The Austrian Financial Regulator for example is currently looking again at the move of N26 Technology Center from Berlin to Vienna that is planed for late this year. They want to create 300+ jobs in Vienna.

Clearly N26 has challenges of which any customer or potential customer should know so that they as any person should can make a determination if this is the right bank for them.

alwald

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Example of cutting corners:
N26 had a policy of not allowing customers that terminated their accounts to reopen an account within 6 years. Instead of implementing a compliant solution they put those customers onto a list designed solely to stop people who are suspected of money laundering.
Result:
50,000€ fine under the Data Protection Legislation and further investigations of Bafin under the German Anti Money Laundering law, as this was discovered after the recent site audit.
They also still have to comply with the order by the Data Protection Supervisor to tell customers impacted by this (of which several are ex customers on the board here).

Example of cutting corners:
Under the agreement of banks operating in Germany with the German Central bank, banks require to have special hot lines and reaction times when notified about suspected fraudulent transactions. N26 agreed but has only so limited staff that they are unable to react in time to requests from other banks. This is a contributing factor why bank are hesitant to transfer money to N26.

It's 5 years I think not 6 years and I will reiterate that in the world of AML and GDPR, the above mentioned infringements aren't rated as high risk so they won't cause a revocation/cancellation of their licence or any substantial fines.

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

What has that to do with the fact that N26 clearly is not able to cope with the influx of new customers and is not able to deal with them in line with the requirements of BaFin which lead to the order. Just because other banks too have errors is not an excuse.

The 2nd on site visit of BaFin was driven after 2 State Crime Agencies notified BaFin that sub standard Identification methods were used that allowed accounts being opened by fraudsters and than used in criminal activity. This is the case for at least 400 incidents. While other banks comply with regulation from April 2017 state "this verification is for your request to open an account" N26 provider did not, they actually refused to state why the ID verification was needed which enabled this in the first place. They have changed this now, nearly 2 years later. (See a pattern here).

And that is just what has currently been published by the relevant authorities.

It has every bit to do with N26 as all banks, without exception, either new to this industry or those well established, are finding it difficult and hard to cope with the never ending regulations from a manpower, tools, automation and internal processes point of view.

Look at the well established Swedish bank that was done recently for money laundering and compare that incident, its consequences, the fine and the aftermath with N26 and you will realise that N26 are doing, so far, really well.

N26 isn't perfect and so far, based on the current findings, there are no major alarm bells.

_Kaiser_

OK, this will be a probably stupid series of questions, but I really can't get my ahead around the benefits of this with the exception of free day-to-day banking? (right?) which can still be minimised or limited if you shop around.
For reference I have a PTSB Explore Current account, and previously an AIB one so that's what I'm comparing against. I've tried to make sense of this before but with PTSB increasing fees AGAIN, maybe it's time for another look.

- OK so no quarterly/monthly fees (I think), but what DO they charge for?
- I was in the UK for work a few weeks back and got charged several euro in conversion costs on my PTSB Visa Debit card. N26 don't charge for this? Similar question regarding the likes of Amazon UK or eBay?
- Do Irish utilities (Vodafone, eir, Electric Ireland etc) all accept it now?
- Is their website any use? I like PTSB's app, but I do most transfers from the laptop. I just rather have a full screen and a mouse rather than a phone and a thumb when dealing with big transactions
- Overdraft facility?

Anything else that makes them stand out or big potential showstoppers?

Yggr of Asgard

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

OK so no quarterly/monthly fees (I think), but what DO they charge for?

If you take the standard account:
If you withdraw on an ATM more than 5 times a month there are charges, there also charged if you withdraw money in another currency than €.
Details are here:
https://docs.n26.com/legal/06+EU/01+Account/en/13account-pricelist-en.pdf

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

- I was in the UK for work a few weeks back and got charged several euro in conversion costs on my PTSB Visa Debit card. N26 don't charge for this? Similar question regarding the likes of Amazon UK or eBay?

For card transactions there is no conversion charge, they use the Mastercard exchange rate for transactions (which can be slightly worse than revolut/transferwise.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

- Do Irish utilities (Vodafone, eir, Electric Ireland etc) all accept it now?

YMMV - they should but some are still behind the rules, there is a thread about it here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057540573

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

- Is their website any use? I like PTSB's app, but I do most transfers from the laptop. I just rather have a full screen and a mouse rather than a phone and a thumb when dealing with big transactions

You can do banking from a browser..

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

- Overdraft facility?

Not for customers in Ireland.

5star02707

N26 seems to be down right now? Can't see anything on the app and can't log in online

TheChizler

5star02707 wrote: »

N26 seems to be down right now? Can't see anything on the app and can't log in online

For me the app says they're doing maintenance right now.

Xenji

The app is working fine for me.

Yggr of Asgard

They had a maintenance window scheduled until 0700 GMT this morning which a.) overrun and b.) has introduced some issues for both app and web for some users.

They say they are working on it and if your card gets declined just to try again.

5star02707

all working now after contacting them in Twitter.

Sheep Shagger

When setting up to pay say a BOI credit card in the B26 app (transfers option) it asks for an IBAN, what do people use and how do you make sure the credit is applied to your Mastercard?

bennyx_o

Usually your card number goes as the reference of the transfer

Spocker

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

When setting up to pay say a BOI credit card in the B26 app (transfers option) it asks for an IBAN, what do people use and how do you make sure the credit is applied to your Mastercard?

The IBAN is on your credit card statement, and you use your card number as the reference