MORE crap on the way.

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

Genuine question, not trying to be smart. Would many EU governments (police/army) have stocks of M1 Carbines or Garands? Or FN FAL for that matter?

M1 carbine and Garand was issue to a lot of post war former Axis police units.The Italians even had Brit LE and SMLEs in their new navy. Up until 1972 the German police were using some M1 carbines as police sniper rifles. As said alot of this stuff was put into ware houses and armouries and literally forgotton about until recently.There are literally still tons of Allied lend lease arms,still in the grease, in Russia that were never issued to Russian troops. Not to mind all the stuff the Russians took off the German armies in ww2.Explains how some STG 44's have been appearing in Syria.
G2 is the German and Austrian copy of the FAL which was an issue rifle until the HK G3 came along in the 1950s early 60s,Even the venerable G3 is now in stockpile or being dismantled..so yes there is still plenty of stuff out there.:cool:

gunny123

Someone in the media commented after the policeman was shot in france recently, that all this eu ban is pointless, as the balkans and eastern europe are awash with military firearms, which are cheap, easily available and untraceable.

You would think they would learn, nearly everything was banned here in 1972, yet illicit firearms came into the country by the boatload, literally. Same for the basque seperarists.

BattleCorp

gunny123 wrote: »

Someone in the media commented after the policeman was shot in france recently, that all this eu ban is pointless, as the balkans and eastern europe are awash with military firearms, which are cheap, easily available and untraceable.

You would think they would learn, nearly everything was banned here in 1972, yet illicit firearms came into the country by the boatload, literally. Same for the basque seperarists.

It's all optics to fool Joe Public and make politicians and law makers look like they are doing something useful.

"Look how good we are. We removed guns from the streets*, you are all much safer now"





*Streets = law abiding citizens, and no, you aren't any safer now.

tac foley

gunny123 wrote: »

Someone in the media commented after the policeman was shot in france recently, that all this eu ban is pointless, as the balkans and eastern europe are awash with military firearms, which are cheap, easily available and untraceable.

You would think they would learn, nearly everything was banned here in 1972, yet illicit firearms came into the country by the boatload, literally. Same for the basque seperarists.

A lot of illicit firearms came into the North of Ireland during the bad times - many more than were ever 'put out of use'.

There are still thousands cached away, I have no doubts whatsoever.

tac

tac foley

BattleCorp wrote: »

"Look how good we are. We removed guns from the streets*, you are all much safer now"

The words you are quoting are almost verbatim those of the UK prime minister Tony B Liar, after he took ca. 160,000 LEGALLY-owned handguns off their legal owners back 1997.

The buy-back of the guns and all the doo-dads that went along with them cost the UK tax-payer almost £100 Million.

tac

yubabill1

tac foley wrote: »

A lot of illicit firearms came into the North of Ireland during the bad times - many more than were ever 'put out of use'.

There are still thousands cached away, I have no doubts whatsoever.

tac

Plenty of back garage machine shops turning them out during the Troubles up there.

gunny123

tac foley wrote: »

The words you are quoting are almost verbatim those of the UK prime minister Tony B Liar, after he took ca. 160,000 LEGALLY-owned handguns off their legal owners back 1997.

The buy-back of the guns and all the doo-dads that went along with them cost the UK tax-payer almost £100 Million.

tac

Yeah b-liar was worried about loss of innocent life.....so he banned handguns .......and then started an illegal war in Iraq that destabilised the entire region and has left us with the mess there is today, isis, daesh, refugees flooding europe, terrorist attacks in france the uk, germany etc. Its like some warped round-game.

yubabill1

For the sake of balance, big Balkan arms seizure in Europe this week

https://www.interpol.int/News-and-media/News/2017/N2017-050

and arrests for supplying arms to Jewish supermarket attacker

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39718915

If the security forces concentrated on stuff like these, rather than antagonising legal shooters and fabricating cases against legitimate businesses for optics before EU parliament votes, maybe people would have more faith in them.

gunny123

yubabill1 wrote: »

Plenty of back garage machine shops turning them out during the Troubles up there.

It wasn't back street machine shops bill, it was the industrial might of Harland and Wolffe . As far as i know they built a version of the Woolworths gun, aka the sten.

flutered

page one of last weekends limerick leader had an article about a 93 year old applying for the return of his shotgun, the supers objections are well, worth a read, i do not have a link

gunny123

flutered wrote: »

page one of last weekends limerick leader had an article about a 93 year old applying for the return of his shotgun, the supers objections are well, worth a read, i do not have a link

There is a thread about already.

yubabill1

gunny123 wrote: »

It wasn't back street machine shops bill, it was the industrial might of Harland and Wolffe . As far as i know they built a version of the Woolworths gun, aka the sten.

Only one of many. Don't need much more than a lathe. No rifling required for the most part, but rifle files have more than one application so fairly common but not worth the effort.

Nekarsulm

yubabill1 wrote: »

Only one of many. Don't need much more than a lathe. No rifling required for the most part, but rifle files have more than one application so fairly common but not worth the effort.

A lathe, a milling machine, and a boss to turn a blind eye.
Or any small home workshop would do.

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

It wasn't back street machine shops bill, it was the industrial might of Harland and Wolffe . As far as i know they built a version of the Woolworths gun, aka the sten.

"Ulster funny guns or Harland & Wolff specials" and even more simplified versions of the Sten or some downright extremely well made designs. On the Provo side, some of the most unique improvised explosive launchers made in farm workshops,and whose designs are in use today in Syria.NI and the republic and 35 years of virtual open civil war in 6 counties as well as stupid ineffective gun bans in the Republic should be a beacon to the EU if not the entire damn world that gun control is utterly ineffective in stopping people determined enough to aquire arms no matter what...FFS even the most controlled places on our planet,Maximum security prisions,people have still made workable firearms. The black museum in San Quentin CA,[if you ever want to do a tour of intrest ] is testimony to that.

Grizzly 45

Nekarsulm wrote: »

A lathe, a milling machine, and a boss to turn a blind eye.
Or any small home workshop would do.

A vice,a egg beater hand drill,a whole bunch of files anda lot of patience ,or a firm belif in Allah or Chairman Mao's little red book will get you a good quality workable gun copied off your enemies,in places like Afghanistan/Pakistan border, a mud hut in the jungles of South east asia ,or the Phillipines.

Walter Mittys Brother

tac foley wrote: »

The FAL? The PDF, for a start.

tac

Unlike the British Army version the Irish Army FN had semi & full auto capability. So there would have to be alterations made to any Irish Army issue FN's. IIRC most have been sold (given away more like!) and those that haven't have been upgraded to a kind of "sniper" rifle so unlikely they'll be released onto the civvie market.

gunny123

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

Unlike the British Army version the Irish Army FN had semi & full auto capability. So there would have to be alterations made to any Irish Army issue FN's. IIRC most have been sold (given away more like!) and those that haven't have been upgraded to a kind of "sniper" rifle so unlikely they'll be released onto the civvie market.

All the brand new unwrapped irish army lee enfield no.4's that were in storage were basically given away back in the 90's. None to the best of my limited knowledge were sold here.

Grizzly 45

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

Unlike the British Army version the Irish Army FN had semi & full auto capability. So there would have to be alterations made to any Irish Army issue FN's. IIRC most have been sold (given away more like!) and those that haven't have been upgraded to a kind of "sniper" rifle so unlikely they'll be released onto the civvie market.

As it was a genuine issue FN Belguim design in a metric pattern.The UK SLR[and "common wealth versions"... Tac will no jump on me here:)] was an inch pattern in semi auto only...Apprently there are a good few still in reserve around our little island,they dont seem to have shown up on the US "parts gun market" either.So proably chopped or still in storage.
The Irish dedicated marksman's rifle or spotters rifle is what they are trying to make out of them by sticking a bunch of DSA Arms foregrips on these old lunkers and an expensive scope. Not a bad idea in theory...except they are just pulling anything out of the pile and modifying it!With no consideration to the barrel condition,trigger mechanism,or whatever else you need to turn this into a precision rifle!!.Be like giving an old well used Massey furgeson tractor a lick of paint and a new headlight and other bits and saying its now a dragster tractor.:eek:

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

All the brand new unwrapped irish army lee enfield no.4's that were in storage were basically given away back in the 90's. None to the best of my limited knowledge were sold here.

Correct.I saw a couple for sale in the US when I lived over there in that time .Going still in the grease at gun shows with 100 rounds of 303 for about 125/150 usd.Century Arms ,I belive bought them and imported them to the US,along with the ww2 reserve side arm of the Irish army..Ex Imperial German army Lugers. Guy from Texas bought the whole lot for cents on the dollar,and is/was a multi millionare from that deal.:)

gunny123

Its a pity all the same, i'd have queued up and gone through hell and high water to buy a surplus sa-80...........NOT.

Grizzly 45

After reading this I am convinced 90% of MEPS EU wide had no clue despite our best efforts on what they were voting for!:rolleyes::mad:
Not to mind half arsed reporting by "news talk "

EG
Dublin MEP Brian Hayes welcomed the rules saying: "We have to work at an EU level to limit the use of dangerous firearms without knocking out legitimate clubs and individuals who take part in shooting as a sport.”

"Any attempt to limit the use of semi-automatic weapons across Europe has to be welcomed," he said.

“Already very high standards are applied in Ireland when it comes to gun authorisation, controlled settings and gun transfers.


“This sensible package that was voted today in Strasbourg will help the gardaí in their efforts and crucially will help all police authorities in fighting terrorism.”

Since that statement there have been FOUR terrorist attacks,only one using again a criminally modified or Balkan route full auto firearm.The rest trucks,a car and knives..
Under the new directive firearms will be placed into three categories – A, B and C.

url]http://www.newstalk.com/MEP-reassures-sports-shooters-over-new-EU-gun-laws[/url]

gunny123

God preserve us from such crap.

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

Its a pity all the same, i'd have queued up and gone through hell and high water to buy a surplus sa-80...........NOT.

The UK even tried selling it to the Irish army.. Even our lot had the good sense to reject that utter disaster. A sad end to a good company that made fine arms for the British armed forces.But thats what happens when you build a gun by comittee in a board room with men in suits and white coats and exclude "mere civillians" and fighting men who have to carry it. It is said that the SA could have been cured if it had been allowed to be sold on the civvie market,as no civillian would have tolerated such a POS on the range.But as SA was then banned,you could tell the Army to "shut up and like it or lump it!" End effect, even HK couldnt sort out the design 100%,and proably now the British army will field a HK design too in the future.

gunny123

The british should have simply bought a licence to manufacture the ar-15/m16, in the uk. British jobs would have been saved or created and by then the problems the ar had, were long since ironed out.

Grizzly 45

Ironic.Sterling was making the AR18 the improved successor to the AR15.A gun design that has now been built in retro with AR direct gas operated rifles being now the norm.

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

After reading this I am convinced 90% of MEPS EU wide had no clue despite our best efforts on what they were voting for!:rolleyes::mad:/QUOTE]

Grizzly 45 - just a gentle reminder that the head honcho of this bunch of dwongs was of the opinion that 'three rounds equals thirty-one shots...'

Also that 'Les balles sont tirées par conséquent en même temps dans une grande masse' - 'all the bullets fire together in one large group...'

The 'level of expert knowledge' of firearms related matters among these people is totally non-existent.

tac

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The UK even tried selling it to the Irish army.. Even our lot had the good sense to reject that utter disaster. A sad end to a good company that made fine arms for the British armed forces.But thats what happens when you build a gun by comittee in a board room with men in suits and white coats and exclude "mere civillians" and fighting men who have to carry it. It is said that the SA could have been cured if it had been allowed to be sold on the civvie market,as no civillian would have tolerated such a POS on the range.But as SA was then banned,you could tell the Army to "shut up and like it or lump it!" End effect, even HK couldnt sort out the design 100%,and proably now the British army will field a HK design too in the future.

Harsh words, and only partly true.

HK, at the time of the revision, was a BAe-owned company, BTW.

The revised version of the SA80, is deemed to be a great success among the users in the British Armed Forces. TBH, so much has been altered that very little remains except the hole down the barrel.

However, sh*te sticks forever, and in spite of the L85A2 being reported prone to stoppage only 1:25000 rounds versus M4 15800 rounds, I would not go to war with one.

You'll notice that the RM MWT and SBS, as well as the SAS, choose a version of the M4 as their outrig weapon.

It's interesting to note that the British had not had a wholly British-designed firearm in service with their armed forces since the Napoleonic Wars and the 1790's Land Pattern 'Brown Bess' musket.

The Baker rifle of the early 1800's was based closely on the German Jaeger-style rifle - to the point where they were indistinguishable from each other, truth be told.

The Brunswick rifle, although British in manufacture, was also so thoroughly Germanic as to be a very passing replication of the, uh, Brunswick rifle made famous by the military of that state.

The Enfield Pattern of 1842 was first mass-produced on machinery obtained from America, made by the inventor Eli Whitney, who with Hall, founded modern mass-production as we understand it, Jim.

Eventually the Pattern 53 was replaced by the first British breechloader, the Snider. Jacob Snider, the inventor of that breechloading system, was a canny American whose conversion sytem, based closely, but TOO closely, on that of the Frenchman Tabatiére, cost just 12 shillings and a few pence.

Then came the famous Martini-Henry/Enfield. The invention of the American Peabody, this rifle was brought to perfection by the unlikely team of Peabody [USA] Francotte [Belgium] and Martini [Swiss].

At last, the single-shot rifle was replaced, in the late 1880's by the famous Lee-Enfield [although it started off as the Lee-Speed and Lee-Metford]. James Parris Lee was an American.

And then, in the middle 1950's, along came the good ol' SLR. Designed by the Belgian Dieudonne Saivé.

Every single one of these predecessors to the SA80 was a rip-roaring success in their day - of that there is absolutely no doubt.

And then, along came the home-designed SA80 - borrowing from numerous other developments that had themselves been proven to be successful.

Eugene Stoner's AR15, Sterling Armament's AR10 and 180 and others.

Mix 'em up, and what do you get?

The biggest POS EVER foisted on an unwitting bunch of troops in the history of the British military. I'm not going to repeat the horror stories, except to say that they are all true. I know, I had to suffer this POS for almost fourteen years.

Thankfully, my time in the Army ended before my own rifle helped to get me killed.

tac

gunny123

Well remember the old saying, that a camel is a horse designed by a committee. The sa-80 really was a camel. I was always amazed at our defence forces having the really good sense to buy the steyr aug, you know we normally make a town-halls of things like that.

LONG DRAG

It might have something to do with all the Butter we sold to Austria in part exchange.

Walter Mittys Brother

LONG DRAG wrote: »

It might have something to do with all the Butter we sold to Austria in part exchange.

Which is why some of their older users in PDF refer to them as the "butter guns"