35% Body Fat

SteelyDanJalapeno

Was your gym packed?

Ezra Wibberley

Ha, yes, it was notably busier than it had been a few weeks ago and the last few months of the year, but still not too full to prevent a quick moving workout. Quite a few new members being given their programs and assisted. Good for them. I know people get stick for bandwagoning and going gung-ho at a gym membership in January, but good for them, better than sitting home eating the last of the Roses!

seamus

Don't let the DOMS get you down, it can feel like 3 weeks off is ten weeks backwards. Rough rule of thumb I have with break in training is that 1 week is just straight recovery (you'll still be a bit fitter at the end of that week, as your body has had time to rest and repair), 2 weeks is a plateau (your base strength/fitness won't change noticeably) and every week after that will start a very slow decline.
The first two sessions back will be tough and make you feel awful, but by the start of next week you'll be right back where you left off before Xmas.

As someone has mentioned in another thread, there's a tendency after a break to push yourself harder to "make up" for it. Don't. Listen to your body, if you can't do the same intensity you could three weeks ago, then don't. It will come back very quickly anyway.

Ezra Wibberley

seamus wrote: »

As someone has mentioned in another thread, there's a tendency after a break to push yourself harder to "make up" for it. Don't. Listen to your body, if you can't do the same intensity you could three weeks ago, then don't. It will come back very quickly anyway.

Thanks Seamus

If anything I went last night with intentions of easing myself into it, but my trainer had other ideas. I wasn't making up for lost time as such, just carrying on as if I hadn't been training in 3 days. Combined with a new program today is rather unpleasant and I know tomorrow looms, but I'm still happy with myself for having gone and done it

Ezra Wibberley

Ezra Wibberley wrote:

Today, 23rd November: 107kg & 31.3% body fat

Ezra Wibberley wrote:

5th November: 107kg & 32.8% body fat

Ezra Wibberley wrote:

19th October: 106kg & 34.6% body fat

Today 18th January, I'm back up to 33.9% body fat, 106kg.

It is what it is. Just gotta get back at it.

Ezra Wibberley

Hopefully somebody can help me out with this nutrition question..


My goal is to grow in muscle mass and decrease in fat mass. Muscle growth will presumably require calories among other things (protein...). This may be a really silly question, but, when the body consumes these calories, how much of it goes towards muscle growth?

My thinking is I should be trying for a calorie deficit to cut the fat down, but will this also hinder muscle development and growth? Or am I perfectly with the plan for a high protein diet and an overall calorie deficit?

Sorry if I'm not wording the questions very clearly, but hopefully people understand what I'm asking!

Ezra Wibberley

Hopefully somebody can help me out with this nutrition question..


My goal is to grow in muscle mass and decrease in fat mass. Muscle growth will presumably require calories among other things (protein...). This may be a really silly question, but, when the body consumes these calories, how much of it goes towards muscle growth?

My thinking is I should be trying for a calorie deficit to cut the fat down, but will this also hinder muscle development and growth? Or am I perfectly okay with the plan for a high protein diet and an overall calorie deficit?

Sorry if I'm not wording the questions very clearly, but hopefully people understand what I'm asking!

VisibleGorilla

You should 100% be in a calorie deficit.

At those stats you current have to maintain that weight you have to be eating a large excess amount of calories DAILY! Around 2500 I reckon.

Drop that down to 500 for 4/5 months while lifting HEAVY weights and incorporating cardio.

Get a food scale and start tracking your food religiously, it is the only way to do it in my view.

You will experience both fat loss and muscle growth at the beginning. The key is constancy.

It will be difficult.

Ezra Wibberley

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

Drop that down to 500 for 4/5 months while lifting HEAVY weights and incorporating cardio

While I appreciate a calorie deficit is the way to go, 500cals a day to me is unachievable.. it seems excessively low. I'm sure it'd yield results pretty quickly, but it doesn't seem realistic to try live on that.

VisibleGorilla

Sorry a type, down 500 a day, so around 14k weekly.

500 a day you'd be in very bad shape haha!

VisibleGorilla

Sorry a type, down 500 a day, so around 14k weekly.

500 a day you'd be in very bad shape haha!

Alf Veedersane

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

While I appreciate a calorie deficit is the way to go, 500cals a day to me is unachievable.. it seems excessively low. I'm sure it'd yield results pretty quickly, but it doesn't seem realistic to try live on that.

I'm presuming they meant to drop by 500 cals and not to drop to 500 cals.

At least I hope they did.

Alf Veedersane

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

This may be a really silly question, but, when the body consumes these calories, how much of it goes towards muscle growth?

It's not a silly question at all.

My understanding is this: if you have a higher bodyfat, you have a reduced insulin sensitivity in muscle. Bring other hormones into play and you have a situation where it is easier to store fat.

So what goes towards muscle growth isn't a simple calculation but the lower your body fat goes, the proportion of those calories going towards muscle growth will start to increase.

seamus

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

My thinking is I should be trying for a calorie deficit to cut the fat down, but will this also hinder muscle development and growth?

The short answer is to not worry too much about this. Stay in a calorie deficit and continue lifting and exercising, and you will get stronger and leaner, though not necessarily "bigger" in your muscles.

The broad answer is that it's functionally impossible to lose weight without also losing muscle. It's just the way metabolism works. When you're in calorie deficit, the body will metabolise everything it gets its hands on, this includes muscle. There's no way to "block" the body from doing this and force it to only metabolise fat. A certain amount of muscle mass will always get metabolised as the body works to keep a smooth flow of energy available in the blood.

Doing exercise (weight in particular) while on a calorie deficit in effect reduces the amount of muscle mass lost, by requiring your body to build new muscle. So while it's taking away some muscle on one side, it's building new muscle from the other.

Ultimately it's quite difficult to become huge and ripped while losing weight. You can definitely become stronger and leaner, but building muscle mass requires a focus in of itself.

Body builders often talk of "cutting" and "bulking", which is basically losing fat and building muscle. But they don't do them together. In the cutting phase, they operate on a calorie deficit, continue working out to try and keep muscle loss to a minimum. Once the fat is lost (cut) they embark on a high-protein diet and work out like mofos, building muscle without gaining fat (bulking).

If you consume a high-protein diet while trying to lose weight, your body will start using the dietary protein you're consuming as energy. This is why it's next to impossible to bulk and build significant muscle while on a calorie deficit, and why "cutting" and "bulking" cannot be done together.

There is a lot of talk about "recomp", but it's basically just a fancy word for a short rotating bulk and cut routine, where you bulk on one day and cut on the next, and so forth.

Irishcrx

What Seamus said above is spot on.

Forget about building muscle and losing weight , it won't work. You also have to remember that building muscle requires lifting heavy weights , on a calorie deficet your body isn't as strong in the gym as you have less energy this is why when cutting most people look to maintain in and around their current weight lifting stats and not go higher , they are looking to maintain current muscle mass during the cut, the weight goes back up once this is completed.

By all means work out while cutting weight and look the maintain strength and muscle , but don't expect to build any more. If you have a high bodyfat percentage look to get down to around 15% or so before you think of bulking and building muscle. It takes a couple of these cycles to get to where you want to be which for most people is big , strong but lean.

Irishcrx

What Seamus said above is spot on.

Forget about building muscle and losing weight , it won't work. You also have to remember that building muscle requires lifting heavy weights , on a calorie deficet your body isn't as strong in the gym as you have less energy this is why when cutting most people look to maintain in and around their current weight lifting stats and not go higher , they are looking to maintain current muscle mass during the cut, the weight goes back up once this is completed.

By all means work out while cutting weight and look the maintain strength and muscle , but don't expect to build any more. If you have a high bodyfat percentage look to get down to around 15% or so before you think of bulking and building muscle. It takes a couple of these cycles to get to where you want to be which for most people is big , strong but lean.

Ezra Wibberley

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

So what goes towards muscle growth isn't a simple calculation but the lower your body fat goes, the proportion of those calories going towards muscle growth will start to increase.

That's really interesting. It's not something I ever gave any thought to before, but it would explain why some leaner muscular people can seem to eat much more calorie dense meals than perhaps someone overweight with a smaller calorie intake.

seamus wrote: »

Stay in a calorie deficit and continue lifting and exercising, and you will get stronger and leaner, though not necessarily "bigger" in your muscles.

Ultimately it's quite difficult to become huge and ripped while losing weight. You can definitely become stronger and leaner, but building muscle mass requires a focus in of itself.

If you consume a high-protein diet while trying to lose weight, your body will start using the dietary protein you're consuming as energy. This is why it's next to impossible to bulk and build significant muscle while on a calorie deficit, and why "cutting" and "bulking" cannot be done together.

Thanks Seamus for the clear explanations, very informative. For the record, I'm not trying to get 'ripped' ha ha, I'm trying to lose body fat, I'll wait until I get to a healthier level of body fat before I entertain notions of anything else. I have my priorities

Irishcrx wrote: »

What Seamus said above is spot on.

Forget about building muscle and losing weight , it won't work. You also have to remember that building muscle requires lifting heavy weights , on a calorie deficet your body isn't as strong in the gym as you have less energy this is why when cutting most people look to maintain in and around their current weight lifting stats and not go higher , they are looking to maintain current muscle mass during the cut, the weight goes back up once this is completed.

By all means work out while cutting weight and look the maintain strength and muscle , but don't expect to build any more. If you have a high bodyfat percentage look to get down to around 15% or so before you think of bulking and building muscle. It takes a couple of these cycles to get to where you want to be which for most people is big , strong but lean.

I completely agree with what you're saying, get the BF% down (halved from what I'm at!) before concerning myself about anything else.

Can you (or anyone else) explain why the emphasis is so often put on the word 'heavy' before weights. "Lift heavy weights" seems to be common. I think I'm doing it right, by which I mean, I'm generally at muscle fail by set 4 of 10-12 reps with the weights I'm currently using.

Alf Veedersane

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

That's really interesting. It's not something I ever gave any thought to before, but it would explain why some leaner muscular people can seem to eat much more calorie dense meals than perhaps someone overweight with a smaller calorie intake.

The leaner muscular person will still have to be mindful of the calories in/calories out so they don't get to eat any more than their size and activity levels require and not put on weight.

Mars Bar

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

Can you (or anyone else) explain why the emphasis is so often put on the word 'heavy' before weights. "Lift heavy weights" seems to be common. I think I'm doing it right, by which I mean, I'm generally at muscle fail by set 4 of 10-12 reps with the weights I'm currently using.

That many sets and reps to me seems more like endurance than anything else.*

What we are doing at the moment is doing 8-10 reps on set 1 at a fairly heavy weight and aiming to struggle by the 8th rep. Then set 2 would be a slightly lighter weight for 10-12 reps and set 3, I'll try to keep at that same weight and go for 12-15. Usually I'm struggling at around 10 reps. Then the week after, we will swap it around and go the other way so start at 12-15 and work down and going from lighter weight to heavier weight.

*not a pro, I may be wrong!

Alf Veedersane

Lifting heavy taxes the muscles more and ultimately results in more calories burned after the workout.

But 'heavy' is where ~8 reps around your limit. Maybe with a rep left in the tank.

Squall Leonhart

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Lifting heavy taxes the muscles more and ultimately results in more calories burned after the workout.

But 'heavy' is where ~8 reps around your limit. Maybe with a rep left in the tank.

Out of interest are you saying 8 reps is the limit on 1st set, or by say 3rd set? If 8 is limit on first set, surely by set three, 8 reps of same weight would be too heavy due to muscle fatigue?

Alf Veedersane

Squall Leonhart wrote: »

Out of interest are you saying 8 reps is the limit on 1st set, or by say 3rd set? If 8 is limit on first set, surely by set three, 8 reps of same weight would be too heavy due to muscle fatigue?

You pick a weight that you can do 4 sets of 8 with.

Squall Leonhart

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You pick a weight that you can do 4 sets of 8 with.

So that's a better approach than picking a weight you can do 2 x sets of 8 with, then needing to reduce the weight in order to complete sets 3 and 4 with?

I tend to do the approach you mention, but find sometimes the first set seems too easy, but my muscle may fail before completion of last set with that weight.

Trained Monkey

I would say choose a weight that you can just about do 8 reps with. On second set you might only do 6. 3rd set you might only get 5. Record this on your sheet. Eg. 25/1/16 Weight 30kg 8/6/5. Then the next night your target is 8/7/6 then 8/8/7. When you get to 8/8/8 increase your weight and do the same again. Consistent, persistent and accountable. Its continual goal setting and I know it does work.

Alf Veedersane

Trained Monkey wrote: »

I would say choose a weight that you can just about do 8 reps with. On second set you might only do 6. 3rd set you might only get 5. Record this on your sheet. Eg. 25/1/16 Weight 30kg 8/6/5. Then the next night your target is 8/7/6 then 8/8/7. When you get to 8/8/8 increase your weight and do the same again. Consistent, persistent and accountable. Its continual goal setting and I know it does work.

Yup.

The thing is you'll know if you have any sort of a structure with progression over time.

For example, I was doing dumbbell overhead presses in a programme. I got 5 x 10 with the weight I was and then went up to the next weight. The next time I did 10, 10, 10, 9, 8. The following week it was 4x10, 1x9 etc.

If you don't have any structure and you're just dipping in and out pf an exercise, then it won't really matter if you do 3x10, 4x8 or 8,7,6,5

Ezra Wibberley

1st February 2016; 107kg & 33.6% BF

...meh. Down a pound of fat, up a pound of muscle. Disappointing for the two weeks of (mostly) very good work. Had a pretty bad weekend (2 days of rich meals, alcohol...) from a losing weight point of view so I guess that has to be pointed to as the reason for disappointment. 0.3% body fat difference is negligible, but if I was up 0.3% body fat it'd suddenly be alarming, so gotta see the glass half full side of things and get on with it!


19th October 2015; 106kg & 34.6% BF
5th November 2015; 107kg & 32.8% BF
23rd November 2015; 107kg & 31.3% BF
18th January 2016; 107kg & 33.9% BF

Alf Veedersane

It's back moving in the right direction, Ezra.

Make February your beeyotch!

Irishcrx

Yeah the heavy weights thing is basically what the lads said , anywhere in and around 8 reps max. There is a belief that heavier weights on the majority of muscle groups will help them grow faster by placing greater strain on the muscles. Well it's not really a belief , it's true. If you lift 4 sets for 20 reps your not going to grow muscle very much or very quickly , so that's where it comes from.

I aim for 6 reps x 4 of most of my exercises, aiming a little heavier in weight than higher in reps. When I can lift that weight for 8 reps in my last set I know I've gained that strength and increase the weight again until I can only lift 5-6 on the last set.

Irishcrx

Yeah the heavy weights thing is basically what the lads said , anywhere in and around 8 reps max. There is a belief that heavier weights on the majority of muscle groups will help them grow faster by placing greater strain on the muscles. Well it's not really a belief , it's true. If you lift 4 sets for 20 reps your not going to grow muscle very much or very quickly , so that's where it comes from.

I aim for 6 reps x 4 of most of my exercises, aiming a little heavier in weight than higher in reps. When I can lift that weight for 8 reps in my last set I know I've gained that strength and increase the weight again until I can only lift 5-6 on the last set.

Trained Monkey

If you are looking to cut weight and body fat I recommend that you find a HIIT class and go 3/4 times a week. You will see much quicker results. A gym programme is fine but the intensity isn't what it would be in a HIIT session with a group. In October I was 24% Bodyfat. Started the classes and 4 weeks in I was down to 20.5% bodyfat.

These classes are mostly a mix of dumbells, kettlebells, trx, medicine balls and bodyweight exercises. Work for 45 seconds, move to the next exercise. Normally 8-12 exercises. These are divided into 3 blocks of 3/4 exercises in each blocks.

eg.
Block 1
4 rounds
Goblet squat 10
Kettlebell swing 10
Box jumps 6
Medicine ball slams 8

3 minute break then block 2 begins.