Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

Billysays no

tony ward did say he would like to see vdf, conan, toh, matt healy, ringrose, mccloskey, gilroy playing but now is not the time. the question is, when is the time? when is the opportunity.? now england woldn't be the most revolutionary team in the world. But Itoge at 21 and ford at 22 says a lot. We just include a 36 year old and a 28 year old to add to the age of an already aged team

shuffol

Based on the noises Schmidt was making over the weekend those selections wouldn't surprise me, he definitely hinted at something happening for the England game, particularly with McCloskey.

TOD is a decent test player but nothing more and has probably found his ceiling, VDF on the other hand is going from strength to strength this season and is a traditional openside which England lack, I would be a bit concerned about his physicality against England but if he starts at the very least he'll tackle himself into the ground. In fact with POC, SOB and McCarthy gone we're really missing guys who give us linespeed in defence, maybe they're looking at VDF for that reason.

NiallBoo

shuffol wrote: »

VDF...I would be a bit concerned about his physicality against England

he's not massive but he seems to really pack a punch. International will be tougher but I'd be happy that he'll at least be able to hold his own in physicality.

(For the record, he's bigger than Michael Hooper, who seems to do alright...)

I thought TOD has had two pretty good performances so far tbh.

Yes he's not as good as SOB, Pocock or Warburton, but few are.

vienne86

RTE saying Payne is a real doubt for Saturday. I really hope McCloskey is brought if Payne is out.

When's the team announcement.

former total

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought TOD has had two pretty good performances so far tbh.

Yes he's not as good as SOB, Pocock or Warburton, but few are.

I would agree, his form doesn't warrant being dropped at all.

BUT:
- His place in the side has always been pretty precarious, Joe has not been slow to exclude him in the past.
- He COULD be faulted for the Faletau try and he was definitely at fault for the Medard try, so if Joe's focus is on cutting out errors, defensive solidity etc...

All that said, I'd keep him in the side and give VDF a start against Italy.

former total

vienne86 wrote: »

RTE saying Payne is a real doubt for Saturday. I really hope McCloskey is brought if Payne is out.

When's the team announcement.

Saturday game = Thursday announcement

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

Rumour mill is saying McCloskey 12, Henshaw 13, VdF 7

Someone must have leaked the team to D'Arcy cause he has very curiously just suddenly decided that Henshaw is a 13. :rolleyes:


http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/gordon-d-arcy-ireland-must-get-england-s-ford-to-reverse-into-twickenham-traffic-1.2545799?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Henshaw could play anywhere

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

Henshaw could play anywhere

I am just curious as to where D'Arcy's "Henshaw could have a bigger impact at 13" articles were 3 weeks ago.

awec

awec wrote: »

I am just curious as to where D'Arcy's "Henshaw could have a bigger impact at 13" articles were 3 weeks ago.

Could be that he has inside word.....or could be that Payne wasn't injured 3 weeks ago.

Noopti

Sexton, McC and Henshaw running at Ford and Farrell though.....I like the thought of that. We put him under serious pressure last year, we should be doing the same this weekend.

sydthebeat

Noopti wrote: »

Sexton, McC and Henshaw running at Ford and Farrell though.....I like the thought of that. We put him under serious pressure last year, we should be doing the same this weekend.

prefer the idea of VDF (or TOD) running down fords throat all day

Clegg

May as well go for that midfield. It's not like we have anything to lose at this stage.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

awec wrote: »

I am just curious as to where D'Arcy's "Henshaw could have a bigger impact at 13" articles were 3 weeks ago.

He's been following this thread and the idea of Earls at 13 has presented itself to him. He logged straight off and got straight to writing an article to try and put any other possibility into Joe's head.

awec

Basil3 wrote: »

Could be that he has inside word.....or could be that Payne wasn't injured 3 weeks ago.

The weird thing for me is he says Henshaw is a brilliant 12, but could be a much better 13. And Ireland can build their backline around him at 13.

But then he'd surely have to play 13 for Leinster. And then D'Arcy talks about Ringrose coming into the equation, but how can Ringrose come into the equation if Henshaw plays in his position?

Don't get me wrong I am glad that someone has finally written about the merits of Henshaw at 13, but D'Arcy's article is a bit of a rambling mess in parts.

Mr Tickle

awec wrote: »

The weird thing for me is he says Henshaw is a brilliant 12, but could be a much better 13. And Ireland can build their backline around him at 13.

But then he'd surely have to play 13 for Leinster. And then D'Arcy talks about Ringrose coming into the equation, but how can Ringrose come into the equation if Henshaw plays in his position?

Don't get me wrong I am glad that someone has finally written about the merits of Henshaw at 13, but D'Arcy's article is a bit of a rambling mess in parts.

This is exactly why i don't like that move. the article is a pretty accurate reflection of the situation.

NiallBoo

awec wrote: »

But then he'd surely have to play 13 for Leinster. And then D'Arcy talks about Ringrose coming into the equation, but how can Ringrose come into the equation if Henshaw plays in his position?
.

There's a big advantage there in that leinster will have a whole lot more game and training time to figure out what works. They're both able to do the job so it's a real no-lose scenario.

former total

awec wrote: »

The weird thing for me is he says Henshaw is a brilliant 12, but could be a much better 13. And Ireland can build their backline around him at 13.

But then he'd surely have to play 13 for Leinster. And then D'Arcy talks about Ringrose coming into the equation, but how can Ringrose come into the equation if Henshaw plays in his position?

Don't get me wrong I am glad that someone has finally written about the merits of Henshaw at 13, but D'Arcy's article is a bit of a rambling mess in parts.

It's not. His thought process is:

1) Payne must play if fit.
2) You have to get all your best players on the pitch, hence Henshaw at 12.
3) If Payne is not fit, then we should look at Henshaw at 13.
4) Long term, Henshaw could be a better 13 than he is a 12.
5) Ringrose must eventually come into the equation: as he says:

That would beg the question, which also occurred after Ireland’s 2004 Six Nations campaign: who is more important? Who must be moved for the team to find the most effective balance?

i.e. in a year or two, if you have two excellent 13s in Ringrose and Henshaw, one of them has to be moved.

There is no contradiction in any of that and he is very clear in thinking that right now, Payne is the best option at 13.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

former total wrote: »

5) Ringrose must eventually come into the equation: as he says:

i.e. in a year or two, if you have two excellent 13s in Ringrose and Henshaw, one of them has to be moved.

Henshaw being moved to FB to accommodate Ringrose could be a good move, especially given we don't really have a lot of options in that position

More likely scenario though is Leinster experiment with them at 12 and 13 and Ireland just copy and paste. Where does that leave McCloskey though?

I'd say it's a year or two before we have to worry about any of that though.

Noopti

sydthebeat wrote: »

prefer the idea of VDF (or TOD) running down fords throat all day

Yeah of course, those guys too! Basically....everyone run at Ford.

Mr Tickle

Noopti wrote: »

Yeah of course, those guys too! Basically....everyone run at Ford.

I'm envisioning the flying V from the mighty ducks.

These tactics seems suspiciously familiar to the French going after Sexton

I still think the general attitude is a negative, defensive one. Would be great to hear people say 'I can't wait to see RK carve up through the middle' or 'I can't wait to see Zebo/Trimble/whoever belting down the wing.'

What seems to get people most excited these days is having awesome defence, winning turnover ball, then not knowing what to do with it.

Enjoyed Darcys article but for me I think this game is going to come down to which set of forwards come out on top and talking in depth about the 10 - 12 axis whilst an interesting insight is not where the war will be won or lost.

We are out of the running in this six nations primarily because of our scrum. We missed opportunities to score against France sure, but ultimately they wouldn't have gotten points on the board had our scrum held up.

Wales game was a similar story, though we looked a bit rusty in attack, our scrum was a liability.

Wales rightly were all over Marler in the run up to their World Cup victory and he was subbed shortly after half time having coughed up a good few penalties. If Ross isn't fit to start, then there might be an argument for starting Healy (who I still think is a superior scrummager to McGrath). Bring on Ross and McGrath when White starts to get into trouble.

I'd be worried about Dillane in the engine room here also. Does he bring enough weight and power to get our scrum driving forward? McCarthy is a big loss to be honest, hopefully Ryan can fill his shoes and find some form.

I dunno. Don't see where we can win this. As always having SOB would make an immense difference, jesus if he could only stay fit / unbanned.

Zzippy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Henshaw being moved to FB to accommodate Ringrose could be a good move, especially given we don't really have a lot of options in that position

More likely scenario though is Leinster experiment with them at 12 and 13 and Ireland just copy and paste. Where does that leave McCloskey though?

I'd say it's a year or two before we have to worry about any of that though.

At the moment, Henshaw is a better 13 than Ringrose. Ringrose has potential, but he has a long way to go before he's near Henshaw at 13. I won't be at all surprised if he ends up on the wing with Henshaw at 13 long-term for Leinster. That's better for Ireland too, with McCloskey at 12 you would have your best centres playing in their natural position for province and country.

Awesomeness

Zzippy wrote: »

At the moment, Henshaw is a better 13 than Ringrose. Ringrose has potential, but he has a long way to go before he's near Henshaw at 13. I won't be at all surprised if he ends up on the wing with Henshaw at 13 long-term for Leinster. That's better for Ireland too, with McCloskey at 12 you would have your best centres playing in their natural position for province and country.

I think Ringrose best position is 13 and he has potentially a higher ceiling than henshaw.

Good problems to have though

awec

former total wrote: »

It's not. His thought process is:

1) Payne must play if fit.
2) You have to get all your best players on the pitch, hence Henshaw at 12.
3) If Payne is not fit, then we should look at Henshaw at 13.
4) Long term, Henshaw could be a better 13 than he is a 12.
5) Ringrose must eventually come into the equation: as he says:

i.e. in a year or two, if you have two excellent 13s in Ringrose and Henshaw, one of them has to be moved.

There is no contradiction in any of that and he is very clear in thinking that right now, Payne is the best option at 13.

He says Ireland and Leinster can build their back line around Henshaw at 13.

How can Ringrose come into the equation if this happens at Leinster? Unless Ringrose is shoved across to 12, but this seems very unlikely.

If Leinster want Ringrose to come through then Henshaw can't play there, but then by extension Ireland can hardly build their backline around a guy who doesn't actually play in that position regularly.

sullivlo

awec wrote: »

He says Ireland and Leinster can build their back line around Henshaw at 13.

How can Ringrose come into the equation if this happens at Leinster? Unless Ringrose is shoved across to 12, but this seems very unlikely.

If Leinster want Ringrose to come through then Henshaw can't play there, but then by extension Ireland can hardly build their backline around a guy who doesn't actually play in that position regularly.

Payne has played at 15 for Ulster this season.

Hendo plays back row for Ulster.

kuang1

awec wrote: »

He says Ireland and Leinster can build their back line around Henshaw at 13.

How can Ringrose come into the equation if this happens at Leinster? Unless Ringrose is shoved across to 12, but this seems very unlikely.

If Leinster want Ringrose to come through then Henshaw can't play there, but then by extension Ireland can hardly build their backline around a guy who doesn't actually play in that position regularly.

I disagree with D'Arcy and some others on here...
For me Henshaw is a full back out and out. RK is having a dismal season and hasn't got much left in his career.
McCloskey and Ringrose are what I envisage our centre pairing should be by the time 2019 comes around with Henshaw at 15.

awec

sullivlo wrote: »

Payne has played at 15 for Ulster this season.

Hendo plays back row for Ulster.

Payne has only played two games for Ulster this season. The majority of his appearances (virtually all) since he became IQ have been at 13.

And I am betting that Henderson's appearances at 6 for Ulster will be very few and far between going forward.

This Henshaw transfer just makes less and less sense to me as time goes on, it is very detrimental to Ireland. You now have the guy who is probably the best 13 in Ireland and the guy touted to be the next big thing at 13 playing at the same team. One of them is going to have to give.

Henshaw in Munster, Ringrose in Leinster and Marshall / Olding at Ulster would have made way more sense. It's a pity Robbie couldn't be persuaded to take a move south.