Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

former total

Farrell hasn't worked with England under Eddie Jones though? What insights can he really bring?

Noopti

former total wrote: »

Farrell hasn't worked with England under Eddie Jones though? What insights can he really bring?

Surely a guy who has coached this bulk of players for some time can give some insights into how they like to play, what habits (good and bad) they may have, what makes them uncomfortable? Maybe not. I would just be very surprised if it hasn't come up in the general conversations he is bound to have with Schmidt anyway.

Probably wouldn't make a huge difference either way.

its_phil

former total wrote: »

Farrell hasn't worked with England under Eddie Jones though? What insights can he really bring?

Unless the English players have become brainwashed Jones robots in two game, I'm sure his understanding of the English players weakness and strengths is insightful.

Don't know if he would risk the severance mind

calico77

Noopti wrote: »

Surely a guy who has coached this bulk of players for some time can give some insights into how they like to play, what habits (good and bad) they may have, what makes them uncomfortable? Maybe not. I would just be very surprised if it hasn't come up in the general conversations he is bound to have with Schmidt anyway.

Probably wouldn't make a huge difference either way.

A good video analyst will identify that stuff anyway.

dub_skav

former total wrote: »

Farrell hasn't worked with England under Eddie Jones though? What insights can he really bring?

I doubt he even speaks to anyone in the team regularly anyway :pac:

leakyboots

calico77 wrote: »

so Kearney missed two high balls v france, one of which he was bodychecked by a french forward. How, with such a fantastic back three did connacht ship 34 points against zebre.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Zebo is obviously not a fullback. I was fine with him starting against Wales but those first 40 minutes were shocking, he made so many mistakes. He's not a fullback, let's use him on the wing unless it's an emergency and then look to develop a specialist in the position.

He missed three. Go back through my posts on the match thread or watch the game back, I made a point of focusing on Kearney for the match - and Kearney had a very poor game. Zebo was getting lambasted on here the previous week for far less infringements. One of my bugbears with this board is people not judging players with the same level of scrutiny - if you're going to pick apart Zebo's performance, apply the same to Rob. Rob was woeful.

Outside of here, the consensus to me seemed to be that Zebo made some errors but it was a very positive performance and offered something different to what we're used to with RK.

I don't particularly think Zebo/whoever is ready to usurp Rob yet, but he should be given a chance to now there's nothing at stake for us. Ditto Jackson/McCloskey/Cronin/Gilroy - let's put one eye on the future now while we have the chance. We know what Healy can do, why not give Cronin more than 6 measly minutes off the bench?

As for specialists... we have two specialist fullbacks sitting in midfield if Zebo is not your cup of tea

Yeah_Right

Farrell could have conversations with Munster players who are in the Irish squad about individuals in the English squad. Would that be a breach of contract?

Yeah_Right

leakyboots wrote: »

He missed three. Go back through my posts on the match thread or watch the game back, I made a point of focusing on Kearney for the match - and Kearney had a very poor game. Zebo was getting lambasted on here the previous week for far less infringements. One of my bugbears with this board is people not judging players with the same level of scrutiny - if you're going to pick apart Zebo's performance, apply the same to Rob. Rob was woeful.

Outside of here, the consensus to me seemed to be that Zebo made some errors but it was a very positive performance and offered something different to what we're used to with RK.

I don't particularly think Zebo/whoever is ready to usurp Rob yet, but he should be given a chance to now there's nothing at stake for us. Ditto Jackson/McCloskey/Cronin/Gilroy - let's put one eye on the future now while we have the chance. We know what Healy can do, why not give Cronin more than 6 measly minutes off the bench?

As for speciealists... we have two specialist fullbacks sitting in midfield if Zebo is not your cup of tea

No issue with the rest of your post (in fact I agree with a lot of it) but the bolded bit pisses me off. Payne and Henshaw are not specialist FBs. Look at their careers. They have played dozens of games in midfield. At a guess, I'd say they have played more first class matches in midfield than FB. They've certainly played more tests there.

wp_rathead

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Farrell could have conversations with Munster players who are in the Irish squad about individuals in the English squad. Would that be a breach of contract?

Maybe he could "accidentally" leave some notes in a Limerick taxi..

Mr Tickle

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Farrell could have conversations with Munster players who are in the Irish squad about individuals in the English squad. Would that be a breach of contract?

I'm sure they could set themselves up to do that without breaching it. Include one a few munster players who aren't in the Irish camp in a little blackboard session.
"so guys if MUNSTER are playing against a team that attacks using the *rugby term" formation, for example England, then we should......"

thomond2006

Farrell is not going to risk his severance package to give a few insider tips to Ireland and the management are not dumb enough to ask him in the first place.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Yeah_Right wrote: »

No issue with the rest of your post (in fact I agree with a lot of it) but the bolded bit pisses me off. Payne and Henshaw are not specialist FBs. Look at their careers. They have played dozens of games in midfield. At a guess, I'd say they have played more first class matches in midfield than FB. They've certainly played more tests there.

I won't argue with you about it but I'm not sure about Henshaw. He played a lot at FB for Connacht initially, I think? Maybe a Connacht expert could fill us in there.

leakyboots

Yeah_Right wrote: »

No issue with the rest of your post (in fact I agree with a lot of it) but the bolded bit pisses me off. Payne and Henshaw are not specialist FBs. Look at their careers. They have played dozens of games in midfield. At a guess, I'd say they have played more first class matches in midfield than FB. They've certainly played more tests there.

Given they're both just starting out as internationals and Joe has put them in midfield since day 1, of course they're only going to have played centre. But up until then, would you not say that they would both have been considered fullbacks for their clubs?

They're doing a fine job in midfield defensively, could maybe do more in attack... though that might be down to the gameplan... but surely now is the time to try other options in positions, bed them in, develop the wider squad for the future.

b.gud

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I won't argue with you about it but I'm not sure about Henshaw. He played a lot at FB for Connacht initially, I think? Maybe a Connacht expert could fill us in there.

Henshaw broke into the Connacht team as a FB, due to injury to Duffy. Though it should be noted that his first senior appearance was from the bench where he came on in the centre. He certainly joined the academy as a centre/FB.he has played a few games this season at FB, but if everyone in the team is fit and firing he is 100% our first choice 13

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

Farrell is not going to risk his severance package to give a few insider tips to Ireland and the management are not dumb enough to ask him in the first place.

Yeah, would be incredibly unprofessional (and unfair) to even ask him.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Farrell is not going to risk his severance package to give a few insider tips to Ireland and the management are not dumb enough to ask him in the first place.

We'll have to bring our best negotiators

Yeah_Right

leakyboots wrote: »

Given they're both just starting out as internationals and Joe has put them in midfield since day 1, of course they're only going to have played centre. But up until then, would you not say that they would both have been considered fullbacks for their clubs?

They're doing a fine job in midfield defensively, could maybe do more in attack... though that might be down to the gameplan... but surely now is the time to try other options in positions, bed them in, develop the wider squad for the future.

Based on his career in NZ, I would consider Payne centre who can cover FB. Not a specialist FB.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

b.gud wrote: »

Henshaw broke into the Connacht team as a FB, due to injury to Duffy. Though it should be noted that his first senior appearance was from the bench where he came on in the centre. He certainly joined the academy as a centre/FB.he has played a few games this season at FB, but if everyone in the team is fit and firing he is 100% our first choice 13

I assume he'll be primarily centre at Leinster now too. 12 more than 13, I'd say. Although they're not overflowing with FBs either. Rob K is injured a lot these days too.

leakyboots

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Based on his career in NZ, I would consider Payne centre who can cover FB. Not a specialist FB.

He's been here almost 5 years, same amount of time as he spent playing pro in NZ and has played more games for Ulster than his time in NZ at this stage... EDIT: scratch that last bit, factor in provincial games and that's not true - maybe Ulster fans can correct me if I'm wrong but has Payne not primarily been a 15 for them?

Original point being, both he and Henshaw can more than adequately cover 15 (I'd argue they'd improve us greatly there such is their experience/flair in the position), thus freeing up the centre to develop options there for the future.

Scythica

So we assumine Dillane at least will get his first cap. I see him being talked about a bit on the 42 and that. What sort of 2nd row is he? Aware it's probably been talked about before.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Scythica wrote: »

So we assumine Dillane at least will get his first cap. I see him being talked about a bit on the 42 and that. What sort of 2nd row is he? Aware it's probably been talked about before.

Doesn't speak to any of his qualities as a 2nd row but....

https://twitter.com/SportsJOEdotie/status/689396835878735872

leakyboots

Scythica wrote: »

So we assumine Dillane at least will get his first cap. I see him being talked about a bit on the 42 and that. What sort of 2nd row is he? Aware it's probably been talked about before.

Athletic, powerful enough for a young lad... think Courtney Lawes-ish (but hopefully without the penchant for casual violence )

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Yay!

b.gud

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Doesn't speak to any of his qualities as a 2nd row but....

https://twitter.com/SportsJOEdotie/status/689396835878735872

That's clip actually says a lot about him. The main thing it shows is the hit, and it's not a one off he's a really aggressive, but legal, tackler. When he was called up to the Irish squad,i remember of every of the Connacht players saying it was great because it would give the team a break from his tackles in training

But the slightly more subtle thing it shows is his work rate. Watch the clip again and you'll see that he really works hard to get back and make the tackle,he was a good distance away from where the initial read was made

former total

Oh dear

Scythica

So from those 2 pictures.

Gilroy to 13 cough

Yeah_Right

leakyboots wrote: »

Original point being, both he and Henshaw can more than adequately cover 15 (I'd argue they'd improve us greatly there such is their experience/flair in the position), thus freeing up the centre to develop options there for the future.

I agree they could cover FB no problem. That's one of the reasons I think McCloskey could be on the bench as he could come on as an impact sub and Henshaw could move to FB. The fact is Payne is vital to Ireland at centre

My issue is people referring to them as specialist FBs playing out of position. It's like people saying SOB is out of position at 7 and should be playing 6 or 8. Or Ruddock should play lock.

Moflojo

Scythica wrote: »

So from those 2 pictures.

Gilroy to 13 cough

"We believe that Craig Gilroy would be a great choice to play centre for Ireland."
- Boards.ie Management

You want clicks on your website? This is how you get clicks on your website.

awec

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I agree they could cover FB no problem. That's one of the reasons I think McCloskey could be on the bench as he could come on as an impact sub and Henshaw could move to FB. The fact is Payne is vital to Ireland at centre

My issue is people referring to them as specialist FBs playing out of position. It's like people saying SOB is out of position at 7 and should be playing 6 or 8. Or Ruddock should play lock.

I don't think it's anything like that.

Ok, Payne hasn't played 15 at test level so how good he'd be is a bit unknown. But we can compare and contrast his appearances for Ulster at 13 and at 15 and I don't think anyone could suggest anything other than he is much better at 15. The difference in his performances is very significant.

SOB is excellent at 6 and 7 for Leinster. Payne is excellent at 15 for Ulster and decent at 13.

So I don't think it's beyond reasonable to say he is a 15 primarily, seeing as every single one of his best performances for Ulster have all come in that position. When he was playing there for Ulster regularly a season or two ago he was considered by quite a few to be the best back on this island, not just the best full back. He has never, ever hit that sort of form in the centre.

calico77

What I expect the team will be.....
Mcgrath, best, ross, toner, Ryan, stander, TOD, Heaslip
Murray, sexton, zebo, henshaw, earls, trimble, Kearney

What I would like to see (same 1-10 as above) and a backline of
Earls, mccloskey, henshaw, gilroy, Kearney