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RWC'15 Pool D: Ireland vs Italy, RWC. KO Sunday 4:45PM TV3/ITV1

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    #1142
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    What's that little thing that sits beside Rory McIlroy's name when he's competing?


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    #1143
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    why they use an Ulster flag and not a Northern Ireland flag, and indeed why use two flags at all when they have the Four Provinces one.

    Theres no such thing as a "Northern Ireland" flag. So they couldn't really use one!


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    #1144
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Theres no such thing as a "Northern Ireland" flag. So they couldn't really use one!

    As I said above there, the Northern Ireland flag is recognised in golf and other sports so why can't it be used in rugby too?

    I'm not trying to wind anyone up or anything and I'll drop it now but it just doesn't make any sense to me.


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    #1145
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,961 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    I know nobody cares, but since I brought it up before in several match threads, I thought I would update you on the dreaded flag issue!

    After annoying people to death with my questions and frequently being told "why don't you just email the bloody IRFU is you're that curious!" I did.

    I asked them very politely, and very precisely, why they use an Ulster flag and not a Northern Ireland flag, and indeed why use two flags at all when they have the Four Provinces one.

    Here is the response I got.

    365019.png

    Which doesn't actually answer my question and implies they, or at least the guy answering their emails, doesn't know the difference between Ulster and Northern Ireland. So, I am none the wiser as to why they use the wrong flag but as nobody seems able to answer my question, or actually care, I shall stop asking, you'll be glad to hear. :D

    The End.

    No. Don't give up. Keep going with this. Annoy them to death until they correct their **** up.


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    #1146
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    No. Don't give up. Keep going with this. Annoy them to death until they correct their **** up.

    :D

    I was tempted to email them back and point out that they hadn't actually answered my question but given how simple the original question was that they couldn't get their heads around I decided not to bother.


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    #1147
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    :D

    I was tempted to email them back and point out that they hadn't actually answered my question but given how simple the original question was that they couldn't get their heads around I decided not to bother.

    Your question is "why do you use that unofficial flag and not this other unofficial flag?"

    What sort of answer are you really hoping for?


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    #1148
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    total former wrote: »
    Your question is "why do you use that unofficial flag and not this other unofficial flag?"

    What sort of answer are you really hoping for?

    No, my question is why are they using an Ulster flag instead of a Northern Ireland one when the two political jurisdictions the island is divided into are the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.


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    #1149
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    :D

    I was tempted to email them back and point out that they hadn't actually answered my question but given how simple the original question was that they couldn't get their heads around I decided not to bother.

    I'd like to know the answer alright (like what the hell they saw in Brian Smith, what did Kidney have over them forcing them to leave him there 3 years after his lack of coaching skill were found out, or what the hell did Wardy get up to in Aus that time that made them drop him), but it looks like they dont want to give the real reason, so give you an empty answer.


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    #1150
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    No, my question is why are they using an Ulster flag instead of a Northern Ireland one when the two political jurisdictions the island is divided into are the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

    Again, there is no Northern Ireland flag. Just because some other sports body chose a different flag doesn't give it any official status.


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    #1151
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Again, there is no Northern Ireland flag. Just because some other sports body chose a different flag doesn't give it any official status.

    Why can't they give me that answer though, if that's the case? The answer they gave me is inaccurate so if that's the reason they're using the Ulster flag they're wrong.


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    #1152
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Why can't they give me that answer though, if that's the case? The answer they gave me is inaccurate so if that's the reason they're using the Ulster flag they're wrong.

    The answer they gave you isn't inaccurate. And they could really tell you anything they want, they're hardly going to give you a long detailed historical analysis of the decision making of the IRFU with regards to flag policy over the years. There's some other things going on at the IRFU at the moment.


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    #1153
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,971 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Why can't they give me that answer though, if that's the case? The answer they gave me is inaccurate so if that's the reason they're using the Ulster flag they're wrong.

    Maybe it's used due to aesthetics.


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    #1154
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Why can't they give me that answer though, if that's the case? The answer they gave me is inaccurate so if that's the reason they're using the Ulster flag they're wrong.

    They're not wrong. There is no such thing as a northern Ireland flag. The Ulster flag is the closest thing to it.

    This is an incredibly sensitive issue for a lot of people in the north, it's a political hand grenade. The IRFU won't go near it, nor should they.


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    #1155
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    No, my question is why are they using an Ulster flag instead of a Northern Ireland one when the two political jurisdictions the island is divided into are the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

    Because the IRFU made the decision about the usage of the flags in 1995, prior to the Belfast Agreement.

    Anthems and flags are such a divisive issue in NI, I'd imagine they just don't want to get into it again. When NI has an official flag, I'd suspect they will replace the Ulster flag with it - but I think we'll be waiting a while for that to happen.


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    #1156
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    The answer they gave you isn't inaccurate. And they could really tell you anything they want, they're hardly going to give you a long detailed historical analysis of the decision making of the IRFU with regards to flag policy over the years. There's some other things going on at the IRFU at the moment.

    It is inaccurate because the island of Ireland is not divided into the two political jurisdictions of the Republic and Ulster. That's the reason they stated in the email and that is factually inaccurate.
    total former wrote: »
    They're not wrong. There is no such thing as a northern Ireland flag. The Ulster flag is the closest thing to it.

    This is an incredibly sensitive issue for a lot of people in the north, it's a political hand grenade. The IRFU won't go near it, nor should they.

    Again, if the Northern Ireland flag isn't recognised by World Rugby why not say that's the reason. And even if that was the case it seems highly unlikely the Ulster flag is recognised, but they still use that. Why?


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    #1157
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    I know nobody cares, but since I brought it up before in several match threads, I thought I would update you on the dreaded flag issue!

    There is one flag which represented all of Ireland for 400 years or so, that is the gold harp on a blue background given to us by King Henry VIII and incorporated into Britain's Royal Standard. I have only one problem with it. My daughter has a harp and every time my grandchildren come around they make s**t of it, and the harp on the Royal Standard looks just like my daughter's harp after the grandchildren have been around. The Brian Boru harp as depicted on the Presidential flag beats Henry's flag hands down for aesthetics. Around 1930 when the whole business of sporting Ireland being one or two was in the balance, the Brian Boru flag as later adopted by the President when the Presidency was instituted was proposed as an All-Ireland flag. That came to nothing. Perhaps it would upset some people now that our president has adopted it, though I suspect such people are antagonised by the very concept of all-Ireand sport, so perhaps they should be ignored. Anyway, my first choice, purely for aesthetic reasons, is the flag depicting the Brian Boru harp, and failing that I would accept the harp that looks like it's been in the same bed as Henry and Ann Boleyn.
    If King John gave us counties which were adopted with relish by everybody from the GAA to the Orange Order, there is no reason why Henry's concept of All-Ireland as depicted on the relevant flag shouldn't be acceptable to all and sundry.


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    #1158
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    It does seem like the most likely answer is it's a political ****storm they don't want to get involved with and I completely understand why they would not reveal that in a casual email to a curious fan. I just find it odd that seemingly nobody has asked this question of them before and if someone has that they don't have a better stock answer than a factually inaccurate one.

    But as I said earlier nobody seems willing to march on IRFU headquarters with me to get a real answer so I won't bring it up again (unless I get a better answer from someone in the future.... Joe Duffy, perhaps?)


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    #1159
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    It is inaccurate because the island of Ireland is not divided into the two political jurisdictions of the Republic and Ulster. That's the reason they stated in the email and that is factually inaccurate.

    They didn't say it was. You've misinterpreted their reply.


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    #1160
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    They didn't say it was. You've misinterpreted their reply.

    They say the flag protocol is in place to represent the fact that the team is drawn from the two political jurisdictions that make up the island of Ireland. They then point out the two flags they use. How else am I supposed to interpret that?


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    #1161
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Ugh. No. What have you done when I turned my back for five minutes? No, we're not discussing flags or politics. End of.


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    #1162
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    They say the flag protocol is in place to represent the fact that the team is drawn from the two political jurisdictions that make up the island of Ireland. They then point out the two flags they use. How else am I supposed to interpret that?

    They said their policy reflects the fact that the team is drawn from those two jurisdictions. They then said which flags they use to represent that fact. There's nothing factually incorrect about that. They didn't say the flags were the flags of the two jurisdictions (which would be impossible anyway), if they had then they'd be incorrect but it still really wouldn't matter.


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    #1163
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    .ak wrote: »
    Ugh. No. What have you done when I turned my back for five minutes? No, we're not discussing flags or politics. End of.

    Ok mod. Could you move this flag stuff to a new thread then?


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    #1164
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    feargale wrote: »
    Ok mod. Could you move this flag stuff to a new thread then?


    No, no flag chat on a rugby forum. The forum is for discussing rugby, and whilst we allow related politics to be discussed from time to time this is not one of those times...


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    #1165
    kidneyfan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭kidneyfan


    feargale wrote: »
    Ok mod. Could you move this flag stuff to a new thread then?
    Please delete all flag related posts and don't move it anywhere. This shouldn't be discussed when we talk about Rugby.


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    #1166
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    .ak wrote: »


    No, no flag chat on a rugby forum. The forum is for discussing rugby, and whilst we allow related politics to be discussed from time to time this is not one of those times...
    We the people demand a flag forum!! :mad:


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    #1167
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,961 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    There's only one answer to the flag issue.

    A leprechaun with laser beams shooting from its eyes!!


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    #1168
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    .ak wrote: »
    Ugh. No. What have you done when I turned my back for five minutes? No, we're not discussing flags or politics. End of.

    For what it's worth I'm not looking to discuss politics or debate the issue of a united Ireland or anything like that. I've asked, what I think, is a perfectly valid question of the IRFU's choice of flag and they haven't been able to give me an answer. We are just going around in circles now though so I'm done with the topic.
    feargale wrote: »
    Ok mod. Could you move this flag stuff to a new thread then?

    Definitely no need for that.
    kidneyfan wrote: »
    Please delete all flag related posts and don't move it anywhere. This shouldn't be discussed when we talk about Rugby.

    I don't see why it shouldn't be discussed when talking about rugby. It's a perfectly valid question and we have discussed it pretty much to its natural conclusion without anyone getting offended or falling out.


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    #1169
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    There's only one answer to the flag issue.

    A leprechaun with laser beams shooting from its eyes!!

    I did see a leprechaun at the N. Ireland football match earlier so clearly both political jurisdictions would be comfortable agreeing to this idea. Motion passed!!


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    #1170
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    There's only one answer to the flag issue.

    A leprechaun with laser beams shooting from its eyes!!

    ...what colour would these laser beams be?


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    #1171
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Billy86 wrote: »
    ...what colour would these laser beams be?

    ....... Orange?

    Which reminds me.... isn't it about time we had an orange alternate jersey?


This discussion has been closed.
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