RWC'15 Pool D: Ireland vs Italy, RWC. KO Sunday 4:45PM TV3/ITV1

noway12345

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not sure where you're getting that from, we have backup at both positions. We have Fitz or Madigan at 12 and we have Earls at 13.

You just said that Fitzgerald doesn't have the power we need at 12, does Madigan?

noway12345

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Where did I say that? That last post says that moving Henshaw to 13 in his first match (ever) at the WC as well as having him playing alongside an unfamiliar centre partner would not have been a good idea. I never even mentioned Earls.

Do you not remember discussing Earls? It went on for a few pages!
It was his first match ever at 12 in the World Cup also. He plays 13 regularly. Payne was injured for the Italian match, he might be injured for France aswell. Earls is number one backup.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

noway12345 wrote: »

Do you not remember discussing Earls? It went on for a few pages!
It was his first match ever at 12 in the World Cup also. He plays 13 regularly. Payne was injured for the Italian match, he might be injured for France aswell. Earls is number one backup.

He plays 13 regularly for Connacht against Pro 12 teams. Not the same thing as playing it at international level. I'm not saying he couldn't do it, I'm saying a must win match in the World Cup with his regular centre partner missing is not the time to find out if he can.

You quoted my post (that didn't mention Earls) and claimed I was saying I was happy to have him as backup, which I wasn't.

irishbucsfan

noway12345 wrote: »

You just said that Fitzgerald doesn't have the power we need at 12, does Madigan?

Nope, you're confusing the concept of having a backup at a position and selecting a strongest starting pair. Fitzgerald is our backup at 12, but he's not going to be our starter. Schmidt's actions in the past have shown us exactly the type of 12 he likes (his use of Sheridan/Coughlan, signing of Goodman etc).

If we're going to play Henshaw at 13 in the future we need to replace him at 12 first. I think Stuart McCloskey is a good shout for that.

noway12345

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

He plays 13 regularly for Connacht against Pro 12 teams. Not the same thing as playing it at international level. I'm not saying he couldn't do it, I'm saying a must win match in the World Cup with his regular centre partner missing is not the time to find out if he can.

You quoted my post (that didn't mention Earls) and claimed I was saying I was happy to have him as backup, which I wasn't.

He's played European Cup there also. Beat Toulouse! With a doubt over our regular 13, wouldn't it be the time to find the alternative.

The second part of your post makes no sense.

sydthebeat

noway12345 wrote: »

We didn't kick all day against Romania, in fact we ran far more. Payne still couldn't make a line break!

do you realise he was our top off loader in that game?
and top tackler too


you cant have EVERY player making EVERY line break... the sports doesnt work like that.

at least experienced international centres in Darcy and BOD can see the work he does for us.

irishbucsfan

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

He plays 13 regularly for Connacht against Pro 12 teams. Not the same thing as playing it at international level. I'm not saying he couldn't do it, I'm saying a must win match in the World Cup with his regular centre partner missing is not the time to find out if he can.

You quoted my post (that didn't mention Earls) and claimed I was saying I was happy to have him as backup, which I wasn't.

To be fair Henshaw has been excellent at 13. You should watch him there for Connacht. His performances there in some of the Challenge Cup games last year were outstanding.

noway12345

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nope, you're confusing the concept of having a backup at a position and selecting a strongest starting pair. Fitzgerald is our backup at 12, but he's not going to be our starter. Schmidt's actions in the past have shown us exactly the type of 12 he likes (his use of Sheridan/Coughlan, signing of Goodman etc).

If we're going to play Henshaw at 13 in the future we need to replace him at 12 first. I think Stuart McCloskey is a good shout for that.

They knew there was doubt over Payne for France. If both Payne and Henshaw were out were we looking at Fitzgerald/Earls for centre partnership?

McCloskey looks good (not sure about his kicking).

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

noway12345 wrote: »

He's played European Cup there also. Beat Toulouse! With a doubt over our regular 13, wouldn't it be the time to find the alternative.

The second part of your post makes no sense.

Henshaw was playing 15 when they beat Toulouse.

And it makes perfect sense.

twinytwo

WarZ wrote: »

So the two back row players who made the most gain line yards, most tackles, most rucks hit and least infringements need to stand up?

But the player who made 3 tackles, was not even in the top 5 for gain line yards in the pack, gave away more infringements than the other two back row combined and was yellow carded is curiously not singled out.

hmmmm

if your gonna pull stats to suit your fantasy at least get it right...

POM made more yards than both Heaslip and SOB

The only person who made more yards that POM in the pack yesterday was Best

he made the same number of tackles as SOB - ie 5

Im not sure how you can even quantify "hitting rucks" but id love to see where you pulled that one from.

The last time I checked 1 infringment plus 1 infringment was not greater than 2 infringment.

While we are at it... given you line of justification... henshaw nearly made more tackles yesterday than the entire backrow... sure why not have him cover the whole thing himself. :rolleyes:

Your entire arguement is false and borderline hilarious

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

irishbucsfan wrote: »

To be fair Henshaw has been excellent at 13. You should watch him there for Connacht. His performances there in some of the Challenge Cup games last year were outstanding.

To be honest I don't recall seeing him play 13, I probably have I just never realised he was 13. Point is though that he's never done it at international level and although he may well be able to I don't think an important WC game is the time to test it. That's all I'm saying in regards to Henshaw.

noway12345 wrote: »

McCloskey looks good (not sure about his kicking).

McCloskey has only been kicking because of absence/injuries. Not something we'd have to worry about.

irishbucsfan

noway12345 wrote: »

They knew there was doubt over Payne for France. If both Payne and Henshaw were out were we looking at Fitzgerald/Earls for centre partnership?

McCloskey looks good (not sure about his kicking).

I assume if Payne and Henshaw were out then we'd end up with Fitzgerald/Earls but I really don't see the relevance of that. Fingers crossed neither will be out but I'd be surprised if both are.

total former

Hasn't really been mentioned but Sexton was pretty ropey from the tee. A big contrast with the likes of Biggar, Foley etc. Even McFadden was nailing touchline conversions for fun on Saturday.

Needs to improve.

subfreq

Lets just remind ourselves of what we face. Bastareaud and Fofana. Not a time to pull a Lancaster and mix up your midfield.

If Earls starts (Due to Payne injury) then he has one of the toughest afternoons of his international career ahead of him.

I went off on one earlier in this thread as I back Fitz at outside centre in the current RWC squad but Earls has the shirt and it would be insanity to change the pairing again unless forced.

For me a big bloke inside and a stepper outside is a good dynamic for the centres. I would like to see Henshaw hold the 12 jersey and wont revisit my musings on who I think could take the outside. It does help in that dynamic if your 15 is an attacking threat which is something Ireland would have to look to develop.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

total former wrote: »

Hasn't really been mentioned but Sexton was pretty ropey from the tee. A big contrast with the likes of Biggar, Foley etc. Even McFadden was nailing touchline conversions for fun on Saturday.

Needs to improve.

I mentioned it when I suggested playing Madigan at 12 to allow him to take the kicks. I was only half joking.

noway12345

sydthebeat wrote: »

do you realise he was our top off loader in that game?
and top tackler too


you cant have EVERY player making EVERY line break... the sports doesnt work like that.

at least experienced international centres in Darcy and BOD can see the work he does for us.

Like I said, he's a 13 who can't make a break even against inferior opposition.

Pudsy33

noway12345 wrote: »

Like I said, he's a 13 who can't make a break even against inferior opposition.

A 13 doesn't need to make breaks. Conrad Smith wouldn't be know for his lightning speed or line break ability and he's the best 13 ok the planet.

noway12345

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Henshaw was playing 15 when they beat Toulouse.

And it makes perfect sense.

He's been 13 in European games loads of times and been excellent.

It doesn't.

noway12345

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

To be honest I don't recall seeing him play 13, I probably have I just never realised he was 13. Point is though that he's never done it at international level and although he may well be able to I don't think an important WC game is the time to test it. That's all I'm saying in regards to Henshaw.




McCloskey has only been kicking because of absence/injuries. Not something we'd have to worry about.

No way???

noway12345

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I assume if Payne and Henshaw were out then we'd end up with Fitzgerald/Earls but I really don't see the relevance of that. Fingers crossed neither will be out but I'd be surprised if both are.

It wasn't too far off happening!!!

Christy42

noway12345 wrote: »

We passed it to set up an opportunity for Murray to kick again. Did you watch the game?

We kicked because no one managed to do anything with it. Sexton spent plays running left and right with trying to create a gap for someone to go through. It didn't happen, our forwards and backs ran into them and got no where. Kicking at least put the ball down their end of the field for a bit. Aside from the try I am pretty sure our most useful possessions were kicks.

noway12345

Pudsy33 wrote: »

A 13 doesn't need to make breaks. Conrad Smith wouldn't be know for his lightning speed or line break ability and he's the best 13 ok the planet.

A 13 doesn't need to make breaks but Payne doesn't offer much in attack at all! Unlike Smith.

irishbucsfan

noway12345 wrote: »

Like I said, he's a 13 who can't make a break even against inferior opposition.

He made 3 line breaks against Canada. 2 against Scotland in the 6 Nations decider. 1 against Wales in our loss in the Millennium in the 6 Nations. And going back to his first game there, he made one against South Africa.

So... entirely incorrect.

noway12345

Christy42 wrote: »

We kicked because no one managed to do anything with it. Sexton spent plays running left and right with trying to create a gap for someone to go through. It didn't happen, our forwards and backs ran into them and got no where. Kicking at least put the ball down their end of the field for a bit. Aside from the try I am pretty sure our most useful possessions were kicks.

So Earls didn't get a chance (along with the other outside backs). Kicking wont be good enough to win this World cup.

subfreq

Smith did have that lovely way of ghosting into a gap and a pretty good kicking out of hand game. Guess it helps when you have the back three he has had running off him his entire career.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

noway12345 wrote: »

So Earls didn't get a chance (along with the other outside backs). Kicking wont be good enough to win this World cup.

It was good enough to beat South Africa and Australia last November. Why not now?

noway12345

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He made 3 line breaks against Canada. 2 against Scotland in the 6 Nations decider. 1 against Wales in our loss in the Millennium in the 6 Nations. And going back to his first game there, he made one against South Africa.

So... entirely incorrect.

Does Earls v Italy count as a line break?

irishbucsfan

noway12345 wrote: »

So Earls didn't get a chance (along with the other outside backs). Kicking wont be good enough to win this World cup.

Based on what exactly? You keep making these statements but failling to back them up. Kicking has won World Cups in the past.

noway12345

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It was good enough to beat South Africa and Australia last November. Why not now?

This is the World Cup and we're not at home.

WarZ

twinytwo wrote: »

if your gonna pull stats to suit your fantasy at least get it right...

POM made more yards than both Heaslip and SOB

The only person who made more yards that POM in the pack yesterday was Best

he made the same number of tackles as SOB - ie 5

Im not sure how you can even quantify "hitting rucks" but id love to see where you pulled that one from.

The last time I checked 1 infringment plus 1 infringment was not greater than 2 infringment.

While we are at it... given you line of justification... henshaw nearly made more tackles yesterday than the entire backrow... sure why not have him cover the whole thing himself. :rolleyes:

Your entire arguement is false and borderline hilarious

Complete nonsense and lies where are you pulling your stats from? He gave away 3 penalties AND was yellow carded by the way. And he made 3 tackles not 5.