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RWC'15 Pool D: Ireland vs Italy, RWC. KO Sunday 4:45PM TV3/ITV1

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    #992
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Craig Gilroy should be our new 13. He plays on the wing so that makes him an ideal candidate :)

    Henshaw should be our new 13.


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    #993
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    How about Olding?

    Olding/Henshaw is the future.

    Olding is actually a centre so he'll have to play on the wing.


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    #994
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    jacothelad wrote: »
    Quicksand alert....Quicksand alert......:eek: He's there because he can make naughty faces and pull jerseys better than anyone since the days of Leatherarse. It's a bit like the mantra that wingers don't need to score tries, centres don't need to make breaks and 6's = well this one, doesn't need to tackle. He is destined for higher things. He's captaincy material. haven't you heard. He is o.k. but he's not the world beater many would have us believe.....like Henshaw. The alternative to him is SOB at 6 and Henry at 7 ...or Henderson at 6 and SOB at 7. However Henderson is already being labelled to suit other players advancement. The question is this. Is the team better with Henderson at 6 disrupting rucks and carrying forcefully and really blasting players in the tackle or POM at 6 doing the odd nice thing.

    Who had the delightful nickname of leatherarse?


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    #995
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    noway12345 wrote: »
    You know what I mean, we passed it in close, then Murray or Sexton bombed it.

    No. I don't. Of the over 100 times that Murray had the ball he kicked it less than 20. Sexton had surprisingly little ball but kicked less than half of it.

    We kicked about 12% of our possession.

    That we weren't able to do much with the other 88% shouldn't mean that the kicking was in some way aimless. The problem for me was the poor passing stats. We didn't bring our wings into the game; Earls for example passed three times and ran eight.


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    #996
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Okay, I'm glad we have that settled, maybe the same old debate can stop being brought up in every RWC thread then!

    I don't think anyone has claimed any different? The Italy match was the last chance to try out the better partnership.


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    #997
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    noway12345 wrote: »
    Henshaw should be our new 13.

    Has Henshaw actually ever played 13? He was a FB at Connacht and sometimes played 12. Where is your idea he should be 13 coming from?


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    #998
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Earls undoubtedly has more appearances at 13 in Pro Rugby than Henshaw, Payne and Fitzgerald combined...

    To say he hasn't played enough there for consideration is bizarre...

    He's been injured a lot but when did he get a long run playing 13?


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    #999
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,721 ✭✭✭✭phog


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Yes, adds up to him not being a suitable centre for Ireland in the current set up, which is what the post I was replying to was saying.

    How?

    Payne gets injured, Joe has a full deck to choose from and he opts for Earls. I think that shows that Earls is suitable to plays 13 for his country.


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    #1000
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    rrpc wrote: »
    No. I don't. Of the over 100 times that Murray had the ball he kicked it less than 20. Sexton had surprisingly little ball but kicked less than half of it.

    We kicked about 12% of our possession.

    That we weren't able to do much with the other 88% shouldn't mean that the kicking was in some way aimless. The problem for me was the poor passing stats. We didn't bring our wings into the game; Earls for example passed three times and ran eight.

    We passed it to set up an opportunity for Murray to kick again. Did you watch the game?


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    #1001
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Has Henshaw actually ever played 13? He was a FB at Connacht and sometimes played 12. Where is your idea he should be 13 coming from?

    Yes, I've seen him play there for Connacht and play brilliantly against top class opposition. He's played far more at 13 for Connacht hasn't he?


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    #1002
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Olding is actually a centre so he'll have to play on the wing.

    Makes sense.

    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Has Henshaw actually ever played 13? He was a FB at Connacht and sometimes played 12. Where is your idea he should be 13 coming from?

    Henshaw had pretty much never played 12 for Connacht before he was picked at 12 for Ireland. McSharry/Aki were always at 12, with Henshaw at 13. He is a 13.


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    #1003
    WarZ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 972 ✭✭✭WarZ


    phog wrote: »
    Joe obviously thinks otherwise.

    Do you blindly accept everything from anyone in authority? You've used this line twice in pretty much the last 5 minutes in separate threads.

    Yes Joe is a two time winning HC and 6 nations coach but everyone can make mistakes. In Joe we trust but that doesn't mean that there are no concerns with his coaching that people can't air, especially after a few poor performances.

    Lest we forget the Kidney adoration after 2009 that continued in some quarters for far too long. If any pundit dared to question Kidney there would be a retort to say "grand slam winning, coach of the year"! We can't have that ever happen again. Schmidt or no Schmidt.


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    #1004
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    phog wrote: »
    How?

    Payne gets injured, Joe has a full deck to choose from and he opts for Earls. I think that shows that Earls is suitable to plays 13 for his country.

    Joe picked a player who can play 13 who was training with the match day squad all week to replace the first choice player. It's what he does. Read the rest of the posts on the matter, I've said all I need to say on it.


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    #1005
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    noway12345 wrote: »
    He's been injured a lot but when did he get a long run playing 13?

    In 2015, Earls played 14 games for Munster, 5 of which (in a row) were at 13

    v Sale
    v Cardiff
    v Scarlets
    v Glasgow
    v Ospreys

    If you go further back through his career he's got plenty of instances of being Munster's 13 for far longer spells too.

    We have plenty of data on him as a second centre! What kind of number of games do you require?


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    #1006
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,906 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Olding is actually a centre so he'll have to play on the wing.
    He's actually a centre/out-half/ fullback so needs game time at 9.


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    #1007
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    noway12345 wrote: »
    Yes, I've seen him play there for Connacht and play brilliantly against top class opposition. He's played far more at 13 for Connacht hasn't he?

    Yes, he has played much more at 13 for Connacht than at 12 and I agree that it's probably his best position. That's not relevant to this World Cup however.


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    #1008
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    jacothelad wrote: »
    He's actually a centre/out-half/ fullback so needs game time at 9.

    Absolutely, to round off that 'Utility Back' spot.


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    #1009
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In 2015, Earls played 14 games for Munster, 5 of which (in a row) were at 13

    v Sale
    v Cardiff
    v Scarlets
    v Glasgow
    v Ospreys

    If you go further back through his career he's got plenty of instances of being Munster's 13 for far longer spells too.

    We have plenty of data on him as a second centre! What kind of number of games do you require?

    As I've said he'd need a year.


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    #1010
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    noway12345 wrote: »
    We passed it to set up an opportunity for Murray to kick again. Did you watch the game?

    No, of course I didn't.

    Conversation over.


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    #1011
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Yes, he has played much more at 13 for Connacht than at 12 and I agree that it's probably his best position. That's not relevant to this World Cup however.

    I know because he hasn't been played there. This was a mistake and could prove a bigger one if Payne is injured.


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    #1012
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    rrpc wrote: »
    No, of course I didn't.

    Conversation over.

    Ok, bye. :confused:


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    #1013
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    noway12345 wrote: »
    I know because he hasn't been played there. This was a mistake and could prove a bigger one if Payne is injured.

    It wasn't a mistake. He has been starting at 12, he can hardly be played in two positions at once.


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    #1014
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    It wasn't a mistake. He has been starting at 12, he can hardly be played in two positions at once.

    The last chance was at the weekend. With Fitzgerald being very impressive in his outing at 12 it was the chance to move Henshaw to 13, especially since they knew Payne was injured and a doubt for France.


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    #1015
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Henshaw hadn't played until yesterday at this WC so there was no other point where he could have played 13 and it would have been ridiculous with Payne out to move Henshaw too. As for the warmup matches I think it would have been pointless trying Henshaw at 13 when himself and Payne were already nailed on for the 31 man squad and any experimentation there should have been to see who else got on the plane. Which is pretty much how it was used.


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    #1016
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    noway12345 wrote: »
    The last chance was at the weekend. With Fitzgerald being very impressive in his outing at 12 it was the chance to move Henshaw to 13, especially since they knew Payne was injured and a doubt for France.

    No, the last chance to move Henshaw there was months ago. Not in the middle of a tournament. There was no better alternative to him at 12, Fitzgerald doesn't the power that Joe looks for in a 12.


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    #1017
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Henshaw hadn't played until yesterday at this WC so there was no other point where he could have played 13 and it would have been ridiculous with Payne out to move Henshaw too. As for the warmup matches I think it would have been pointless trying Henshaw at 13 when himself and Payne were already nailed on for the 31 man squad and any experimentation there should have been to see who else got on the plane. Which is pretty much how it was used.

    Hang on a second here. You and others have been saying that you don't think Earls is a good 13 but are now saying that you are happy that he's the backup 13?


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    #1018
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,906 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Stheno wrote: »
    Who had the delightful nickname of leatherarse?

    It's part of an old saying used for example when you are sarcastically bantering someone when they extol the virtues of a player excessively..."Sure, there's been no one like him since Leatherarse was alive."
    or “I haven’t laughed so much since old leather arse died!”..
    or "never been so well off since leather arse died"
    It's from a previous generation and was once in common usage in Ireland, Britain and Australia.

    There is also a school of thought that attributes it to Cromwell's habit of wearing leather britches.


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    #1019
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    No, the last chance to move Henshaw there was months ago. Not in the middle of a tournament. There was no better alternative to him at 12, Fitzgerald doesn't the power that Joe looks for in a 12.

    Well then it's a big mistake isn't it? Not to have back up prepared for your centre partnership. If Henshaw didn't recover then who'd play 12?


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    #1020
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    noway12345 wrote: »
    Well then it's a big mistake isn't it? Not to have back up prepared for your centre partnership. If Henshaw didn't recover then who'd play 12?

    Not sure where you're getting that from, we have backup at both positions. We have Fitz or Madigan at 12 and we have Earls at 13.


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    #1021
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    noway12345 wrote: »
    Hang on a second here. You and others have been saying that you don't think Earls is a good 13 but are now saying that you are happy that he's the backup 13?

    Where did I say that? That last post says that moving Henshaw to 13 in his first match (ever) at the WC as well as having him playing alongside an unfamiliar centre partner would not have been a good idea. I never even mentioned Earls.


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