EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

R.O.R

blackwhite wrote: »

Buy it from the pump - there's AdBlue pumps at practically all truck-stops that you can use to fill your car. Have seen it at sites branded Applegreen, Top, Topaz and GreatGas in the past month, all less then 80cpl.

The markup on bottles of AdBlue is crazy.

Please tell me how that goes for you when you try it.

The truck adblue pumps have a different connection than the cars have, and the flow rate is too high too.

Be interesting to see how bad someone can fcuk their car up by using the truck adblue pump.

blackwhite

R.O.R wrote: »

Please tell me how that goes for you when you try it.

The truck adblue pumps have a different connection than the cars have, and the flow rate is too high too.

Be interesting to see how bad someone can fcuk their car up by using the truck adblue pump.

Done plenty of times with no issue. AdBlue flowing a bit faster isn't going to damage the car, it's the same product, it flowing a bit faster isn't going to "f*ck up" a car.

People using AdBlue pumps to fill cars is common throughout Europe.

zilog_jones

oscar2 wrote: »

Motoring page has reported problems with TDI Tiguans after software update.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/volkswagen-emissions-scandal/8-reports-of-volkswagen-tiguans-losing-power-after-ea189-emissions-fix/

It would be interesting to see if anyone has done (or is willing to do) a dynamometer test before and after the update - then again they could cheat on that just like they have with the emissions tests. But it would be nice to see something more qualitative than things like "seems down on power"...

grogi

R.O.R wrote: »

Please tell me how that goes for you when you try it.

The truck adblue pumps have a different connection than the cars have, and the flow rate is too high too.

Be interesting to see how bad someone can fcuk their car up by using the truck adblue pump.

Just use an intermediate canister...

Cosmo K

Interesting....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/09/19/reports-volkswagen-cleanest-among-dirtiest-diesels-as-collusion-among-oems-and-bureaucrats-emerges/#5560582f6ff0

Gazzmonkey

Cosmo K wrote: »

Interesting....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/09/19/reports-volkswagen-cleanest-among-dirtiest-diesels-as-collusion-among-oems-and-bureaucrats-emerges/#5560582f6ff0

Extremely interesting

VW's are the cleanest out there

jimgoose

Cosmo K wrote: »

Interesting....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/09/19/reports-volkswagen-cleanest-among-dirtiest-diesels-as-collusion-among-oems-and-bureaucrats-emerges/#5560582f6ff0

Oh dear. There's a couple of right peaches in there:

"...documents are emerging that hint that for many years, governments and automakers may have colluded in defrauding citizens and customers who don’t want to be among the 72,000 who each year die prematurely from cancer-causing NOx emissions all over Europe."

"This monstrous scandal has been going on for decades right in front of the eyes of lawmakers and regulators. "There has been general agreement that the test results in the lab do not correlate with regular driving"..."

:eek:

RandomAccess

Mazda delayed the launch of their diesel quite a few times. I wonder if it was emissions that was behind that.

jimgoose

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Extremely interesting

VW's are the cleanest out there

Weeeell, that sort of depends:

"Taking Volkswagen’s commanding EU market share into account, and factoring in past greater sins with Euro 5-type cars still in use, Volkswagen Group leads Europe by dirty diesels on the roads..."

grogi

RandomAccess wrote: »

Mazda delayed the launch of their diesel quite a few times. I wonder if it was emissions that was behind that.

In the end they did not launch them in the States...

Special Circumstances

jimgoose wrote: »

"...documents are emerging that hint that for many years, governments and automakers may have colluded in defrauding citizens and customers who don’t want to be among the 72,000 who each year die prematurely from cancer-causing NOx emissions all over Europe."

"Green policy IS working"

robtri

not only are VW car owners queuing up to tray and get a few quid from them, now investors are queuing up to claim billions (10) as a result of losses they suffered due to the drop in value...
http://www.independent.ie/business/world/investors-rush-to-sue-volkswagen-in-emissions-case-35062122.html

grogi

robtri wrote: »

not only are VW car owners queuing up to tray and get a few quid from them, now investors are queuing up to claim billions (10) as a result of losses they suffered due to the drop in value...
http://www.independent.ie/business/world/investors-rush-to-sue-volkswagen-in-emissions-case-35062122.html

I hate the finance institutions, stock exchange etc - but that claims I do understand.

Losses suffered due to criminal activity do deserve compensation.

zilog_jones

RandomAccess wrote: »

Mazda delayed the launch of their diesel quite a few times. I wonder if it was emissions that was behind that.

I think they were too ambitious trying to do things differently, and maybe they should have delayed them further as their engines have problems with diesel-in-oil contamination.

gctest50

zilog_jones wrote: »

......... problems with diesel-in-oil contamination.

better than magnetite in yer brain :

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/08/31/1605941113

We identify the abundant presence in the human brain of magnetite nanoparticles that match precisely the high-temperature magnetite nanospheres, formed by combustion and/or friction-derived heating, which are prolific in urban, airborne particulate matter (PM).

Because many of the airborne magnetite pollution particles are <200 nm in diameter, they can enter the brain directly through the olfactory nerve

yay, alzheimers for all

Comhrá

http://www.newstalk.com/Volkswagen-says-EU-diesel-customers-will-get-no-compensation

Volkswagen will not offer any new concessions to European customers following a key meeting with EU Justice and Consumer Affairs Commissioner Vera Jourova.

While the company is required to pay compensation to VW drivers in the US, in Europe it will only carry out repairs on the affected cars.

After the meeting, the company's negotiating team said that it will implement an "EU-wide action plan" to inform affected customers about the repair programme.

The pay-out per owner in the US is expected to amount to $20,000 per car - while European customers' will have their car's software updated and extra plastic tubing will be fitted.

BEUC, a Europewide consumer organisation, was quick to criticise the company's position.

"A commitment to inform consumers is hardly a sufficient remedy when a company breached EU consumer law. The European Commission should not settle for such poor promises," it said in a statement, adding that it is disappointing that there has been no consideration of compensation being offered to EU customers.

The company has consistently stated that European customers will be offered repairs, not compensation. The Commission said that it is not in a position to impose fines in cases like this - and that this is a matter for national courts.

Last week, Volkswagen Ireland was granted leave by the High Court to submit a challenge against the case being taken against it in Castlebar District Court by Roscommon-based nurse, Eithne Higgins, linked to the diesel emissions controversy.

1,400 investors are seeking damages worth €8.2bn from VW relating to the emission scandal.

Special Circumstances

Fvckin things will be scrapped before they get "der Update" at the rate they're moving!

Toyotafanboi

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Fvckin things will be scrapped before they get "der Update" at the rate they're moving!

The campaign has been in full swing for months, a decent of the fleet, in Ireland at least, has already been captured.

mickdw

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

The campaign has been in full swing for months, a decent of the fleet, in Ireland at least, has already been captured.

I believe a number of Tuguan 2.0 tdi have shown power loss etc after the 'fix'.

Toyotafanboi

mickdw wrote: »

I believe a number of Tuguan 2.0 tdi have shown power loss etc after the 'fix'.

Read that on here the other day. It reads like nothing more than the placebo effect though you'd have to admit.

You'd think worldwide, at this stage that someone would have done a before and after dyno.

Special Circumstances

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

The campaign has been in full swing for months, a decent of the fleet, in Ireland at least, has already been captured.

Oh very good, anyone got a photo of these magical flow transformers? Aka plastic tubes.

jackofalltrades

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

The campaign has been in full swing for months, a decent of the fleet, in Ireland at least, has already been captured.

On a European level only 10% of affected cars have had the fix so far.
Unless you have some information that Ireland is beating this number.

Toyotafanboi wrote:

Read that on here the other day. It reads like nothing more than the placebo effect though you'd have to admit.

They've modified the engine, it's reasonable to expect that it would change it's characteristics.
Attributing it to "the placebo effect" seems very speculative and dismissive.

mickdw

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

You'd think worldwide, at this stage that someone would have done a before and after dyno.

Will a dyno tell us anything though. After all, before the fix, the car will likely be on its best behaviour when on the dyno as it was designed to be.

Toyotafanboi

jackofalltrades wrote: »

They've modified the engine, it's reasonable to expect that it would change it's characteristics.

A reasonable expectation yes.

But I ask you, with the scandal being as huge as it is, why has nobody, anywhere, worldwide, done a before and after dyno test or at least had conclusive results from one?

I don't know the answer, just playing devils advocate here.

mickdw

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

A reasonable expectation yes.

But I ask you, with the scandal being as huge as it is, why has nobody, anywhere, worldwide, done a before and after dyno test or at least had conclusive results from one?

I don't know the answer, just playing devils advocate here.

You would Likely need to do significant on road measurements as the cheating car before the fix would likely run in a clean mode if placed on a dyno. The fixed car might appear more powerful on a dyno although in real driving situation, it would be meaningless.

Toyotafanboi

mickdw wrote: »

You would Likely need to do significant on road measurements as the cheating car before the fix would likely run in a clean mode if placed on a dyno. The fixed car might appear more powerful on a dyno although in real driving situation, it would be meaningless.

But aren't they only removing the cheat capability for test conditions, so real work conditions shouldn't be altered one way or the other?

Seth Brundle

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

But aren't they only removing the cheat capability for test conditions, so real work conditions shouldn't be altered one way or the other?

Therefore leaving them in a more polluting condition than they were sold as.

josip

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

But aren't they only removing the cheat capability for test conditions, so real work conditions shouldn't be altered one way or the other?

What's the additional piping/tubing needed for then?
Is there additional piping/tubing?
I'm very confused about what the fix entails.

If they said either

1. We're going to update the software to remove only the part that detects and cheats when it's being tested and the performance of your car won't be affected or
2. We're going to update the software/mechanics to match our claimed emissions but the performance will be adversely affected

it would be completely reasonable.

But are they saying?

• We're going to update the software/mechanics to match our claimed emissions and there will be no impact on the performance even though we're doing this post design. A design that our best engineers worked on for many years with billions of budget and the only solution they could find in the end was to cheat. But now they've found these magic beans and everything is different.

mickdw

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

But aren't they only removing the cheat capability for test conditions, so real work conditions shouldn't be altered one way or the other?

But my point is that when you put the cheat car on a dyno, it may trigger cheat mode given that there will be no steering inputs and only 2 wheels moving etc. If that was to be the case, well any before fix dyno readings would be meaningless as all you would be seeing was results for super clean mode.

Special Circumstances

jackofalltrades wrote: »

On a European level only 10% of affected cars have had the fix so far.
Unless you have some information that Ireland is beating this number.

They've modified the engine, it's reasonable to expect that it would change it's characteristics.
Attributing it to "the placebo effect" seems very speculative and dismissive.

Hmmmmmmmmm only 10%, even with majority of models not needing the magic flow transformers. I'd certainly regard that as very slow and nowhere near a decent chunk.

I'm gonna suggest a radical solution here.... vw 1,6 dervs need a recall because of a missing plastic tube.

Sliced pans are being recalled because of Un desirable plastic tubing...

Instead of a recall on the bread, they should re brand them as VW barm brack (who will find the magic flow transformer???? Fun for all the respiratory healthy family!!!)


Alacazam alakazoo, the homeopathic effect of waving the plastic enriched brack near the air intake will have much of a positive effect on emissions as the actual recall. And it's fun and soooo clean! Just like driving a diesel don't you know!

Caution, indo...
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-bread-recalled-due-to-concerns-it-may-contain-pieces-of-plastic-tubing-35080171.html