EPA says Volkswagen cheated on emissions with 482,000 diesel cars

zwind

40 times more than the allowable levels of emissions when the car is not doing emissions test.

how can they detect if your golf is undergoing emissions test.

some clever German engineering.

http://jalopnik.com/epa-orders-volkswagen-to-recall-482-000-diesel-cars-for-1731665972

alias no.9

I doubt they're the only ones. Modern cars are designed to perform in the standardised tests regardless of real world performance be it for CO2, NOx or particulates.

alias no.9

fleex wrote: »

40 times more than the allowable levels of emissions when the car is not doing emissions test.

how can they detect if your golf is undergoing emissions test.

some clever German engineering.

http://jalopnik.com/epa-orders-volkswagen-to-recall-482-000-diesel-cars-for-1731665972

It's a standardised test on a rolling road, it'll be easy enough to identify the various sensor traces. They probably logged the sensor traces on cars being tested and then developed software to recognise patterns in the traces.

Special Circumstances

alias no.9 wrote: »

It's a standardised test on a rolling road, it'll be easy enough to identify the various sensor traces. They probably logged the sensor traces on cars being tested and then developed software to recognise patterns in the traces.

Was it scania were accused of this years ago with trucks? They are all at it. A test that has no reflection of real world driving makes a huge difference to the tax bracket etc that your car sits in. Of course they will fiddle it.

colm_mcm

You can see it in automatic cars where they change up so readily compared to cars years ago.
In the case of Toyota Multimode boxes, the CO2 is lower than on a manual box despite just being an automated version of the same gearbox.
I suspect that gear shift indicators are there for the same reason.

I know that isn't the same as what's described in the OP, but the same idea. There is so much at stake to get a brands collective emissions down. Golfs shedding 1 or 2 g per km could be the difference between giving the likes of the r8 the go-ahead or not.

NIMAN

Next they will be telling us these mpg figures aren't real either !!

Cee-Jay-Cee

NIMAN wrote: »

Next they will be telling us these mpg figures aren't real either !!

No they're real alright...I can get around all week on just €20 of daysul.

colm_mcm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

No they're real alright...I can get around all week on just €20 of daysul.

those figures are pretty impressive to be fair.

fancy pigeon

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

No they're real alright...I can get around all week on just €20 of daysul.

Green diesel? White diesel? A couple of miles a day? A kubota lawnmower?

Roen

Similar article in the NY Times. I wonder how many other manufacturers lost sleep last night.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/09/18/us/politics/ap-us-epa-volkswagen.html?_r=0

ba_barabus

"I have in my hand a piece of paper stating VWs diseasel emissions comply with US Standards. I have returned from Germany with peace for our time"

Is it any surprise that a simulated test would produce real life figures ?

The NEDC is a farce and designed so the motor industry can get past emissions tests but the tests are to become real, tested on actual roads, I read somewhere and manufacturers are "worried" haha, so they should be, diesel is unnecessary for the majority of people who drive 20-40 miles a day, it's the "road tax" that attracts them.

BMW have ambitious plans to scrap diesel by 2020.

MPG figures in most cases are well off. Most people can't reach the claimed figures.

colm_mcm

Tbf, it also favours hybrids and PHEVs

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Tbf, it also favours hybrids and PHEVs

True, I guess though my car is one of few models that can actually get it's claimed emissions ratings, range is another matter

I wouldn't be worried about Co2 and this is where Europe failed miserably by having such an emphasis on Co2 and promoting Diesel as some kind of clean fuel.

If BMW are considering abandoning Diesels for plug in cars, I'd say the writing is on the wall for the rest of the manufacturers too. BMW said it will be too difficult and expensive at that point it would be easier to add a batter and motor.

I think Nissan plan the complete opposite after 2020 they want to have all their fleet electric, in other words they want to skip plug ins for all EV but they don't have plans to stop making petrol or diesel cars yet that I've heard.

Dartz

Welp. That's one way to improve sales for the big domestic manufacturers...

Wibbs

NIMAN wrote: »

Next they will be telling us these mpg figures aren't real either !!

In other news: Water is wet.

mullingar

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/21b8983ffa5d0e4685257dd4006b85e2/dfc8e33b5ab162b985257ec40057813b!OpenDocument



Naughty, Naughty VAG!!!!

Good find, how did you come across this ?

Should it be a surprise though considering people can't get close to the claimed mpg figures ? naturally if you burn more fuel emissions are going to be increased too.

this should make international headlines, you won't see the media report it but you would hear them make sensational headlines if September was the warmest in 10 years , and that could have been "one" day in the month.

Diesel was the greatest con ever, the German Government will completely ignore this because they don't want to create havoc for their car companies, they'll still allow us to be poisoned by diesel exhaust and still say diesel is the best thing to reduce Co bloody 2 !!!

shedweller

Might there be a way to force on this "defeat device"? We could all do with smaller fuel bills!

shedweller

shedweller wrote: »

Might there be a way to force on this "defeat device"? We could all do with smaller fuel bills!

Yes, I believe real driving is to become part of the NEDC test in the E.U rather than a lab test but knowing the E.U, the car companies will probably fight against it and it will be extended to 2020.

pred racer

Wibbs wrote: »

In other news: Water is wet.

Not if VW are doing the test

Some RTE Members here perhaps ???

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0919/728896-volkswagen-pollution-level-control/

Delighted, hope this gets international coverage, fair play to the U.S, companies get away with far less than in the E.U. the VW Group were forced to offer 100K mile warranties on the DSG and Multitronic Auto Box because of a high rate of failures, the Chinese also forced this too. But in the E.U ? no chance !!!

Hope this embarrasses the hell out of the VW Group and hope it costs them dearly !

Now the question is who else will get caught, I'm damn sure it's not just VW.

It's just proving though how hard it is for car makers to meet stricter emissions regulations, though they are far stricter in the U.S particularly California !

Quote

"yielding a potential fine of as much as $18b (over €15b) according to US media reports." End Quote.

They'll get out of that of course !

mickdw

shedweller wrote: »

Might there be a way to force on this "defeat device"? We could all do with smaller fuel bills!

I'm sure you could but it would likely result in a car that had drastically poorer power or drivability.

shedweller

shedweller wrote: »

We could all do with smaller fuel bills!

If I had done all my driving by night rate electricity this year it would have cost me so far to drive 20,600 Kms about 190 euro's , but since a lot of my charging is done by free public charging it's cost me a lot less.

Cookie_Monster

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If I had done all my driving by night rate electricity this year it would have cost me so far to drive 20,600 Kms about 190 euro's , but since a lot of my charging is done by free public charging it's cost me a lot less.

What about the cost of your wasted time waiting on recharge?

Cee-Jay-Cee

fancy pigeon wrote: »

Green diesel? White diesel? A couple of miles a day? A kubota lawnmower?

Yes.

5W30

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

What about the cost of your wasted time waiting on recharge?

I heard walking is even cheaper!

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

What about the cost of your wasted time waiting on recharge?

10 mins on way home, gets me back with 20% probably takes 20 mins extra in total by the time I get to the charger and back out. I don't drive easy either. You won't see this leaf driver doing 60 kph on the motorway.

I could spend my time worse. I'm never in a rush any more to go anywhere.

I do have an 84 mile commute so the cost savings to me are worth it, absolutely, service once a year or every 30,000 Kms (inspection).

The work Charge point has been installed so for the length I'm still here I won't have to visit a fast charger for some time.

An updated battery coming for January 2016 would mean I wouldn't have to charge, 2018 150-200 miles but anyway, I can wait.

No toxic emissions while on the move in city and town , my leccy comes from gas and up to 40% wind and up to 80% of the energy goes to moving the car and all that electricity consumed at the refinery to produce petrol and diesel is much more efficiently used to move the EV.

I won't go back to petrol or diesel and I'm not saying that because I have an EV , I did my research before I got it.

5W30

Deleted User wrote: »

10 mins on way home, gets me back with 20% probably takes 20 mins extra in total by the time I get to the charger and back out. I don't drive easy either. You won't see this leaf driver doing 60 kph on the motorway.

I could spend my time worse. I'm never in a rush any more to go anywhere.

I do have an 84 mile commute so the cost savings to me are worth it, absolutely, service once a year or every 30,000 Kms (inspection).

The work Charge point has been installed so for the length I'm still here I won't have to visit a fast charger for some time.

An updated battery coming for January 2016 would mean I wouldn't have to charge, 2018 150-200 miles but anyway, I can wait.

No toxic emissions while on the move in city and town , my leccy comes from gas and up to 40% wind and up to 80% of the energy goes to moving the car and all that electricity consumed at the refinery to produce petrol and diesel is much more efficiently used to move the EV.

I won't go back to petrol or diesel and I'm not saying that because I have an EV , I did my research before I got it.

You might be right but IMO EVs (at current generation) defeat the purpose of the car and the freedom it gives. Personally I'd rather hassle free, fast fuel ups than having to worry about charging the car.

Yes it may cost more but it's worth it, again IMO.

By the way at current diesel prices the Leaf if using all my own night rate leccy would have cost about 190 Euro's V 1300 in a 5.1 L/100 Km diesel or about 55 mpg imp. That's excluding maintenance and motor tax savings.