Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

PressRun

I think they're sick of waiting, tbh. Coming in second or losing to the eventual winners in the semis isn't good enough anymore. They want an All-Ireland and obviously they don't feel as though that's going to happen under the current management. Although I've always thought Mayo were a good team, I didn't see any huge improvement from what went on under Horan. They didn't seem any closer to an All-Ireland this year than they did last year. They are capable of winning imo, but I think they need someone in there who's going to get the operation working like clockwork and instill a bit of killer instinct.

I hope the county board doesn't try and undermine the players now. Given the conflict of interest at the centre of all this, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there's a stand off of some kind between players and co board/management.

Shurimgreat

I'd have Buckley as manager in a flash.

He doesn't do drama or controversy. He got on with the job the last couple of years while managers came and went and County Board were its usual farce.

There is no question Buckley is a top quality coach, the players have bought into everything he has done. Holmes/Connelly still have questions hanging over them. They were badly shown up against Dublin and will be against any top team.

TCDStudent1

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I'd have Buckley as manager in a flash.

He doesn't do drama or controversy. He got on with the job the last couple of years while managers came and went and County Board were its usual farce.

There is no question Buckley is a top quality coach, the players have bought into everything he has done. Holmes/Connelly still have questions hanging over them. They were badly shown up against Dublin and will be against any top team.

Aah but does that make him a top quality manager? Also, if he was to become manager, you lose out on him as a coach - if he is as good a coach as everybody says, then it could be to the detriment of the team to lose him as a coach.....

Shurimgreat

Horan is not the answer by the way. He had 4 years, the latter 3 of which he had the team at their best. But for poor tactics he could have delivered at least one All-Ireland, as could any half decent manager with this team. He had his time, did well but came up short where and when it counted. We don't need this to turn into Groundhog day.

We need management with tactical acumen.

Shurimgreat

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Aah but does that make him a top quality manager? Also, if he was to become manager, you lose out on him as a coach - if he is as good a coach as everybody says, then it could be to the detriment of the team to lose him as a coach.....

My point is, he should be making the decisions on the sideline. He's plenty of experience in elite inter county setups, both Mayo and Kerry.

He should at least be given an opportunity.

And again, I hope people don't use the "ah but he doesn't have the intercounty management experience" line. That argument has been comprehensively demolished time and time again by new managers.

You do raise an interesting point though. What exactly does the intercounty "manager" do these days? Pick the team? What else?

Its important to maintain continuity in Mayo football. Buckley ensured that the last few years. He's earned his shot.

davegrohl48

Lee Keegan states in Connaught Telegraph he did not attend meeting and supported mgmt team. One of 7 players who did. I thought a secret ballot... was meant to be secret.

PressRun

Is it true what I read earlier that H&C plan on resisting the vote of no confidence? If that's true, that's an outrageous stance to take. If you've lost the dressing room, walk away with a bit of dignity. If they insist on staying, then they're not in it for the right reasons, tbh.

Green Peter

I think the players are afraid Buckley is leaving and don't feel they can compete for a title without him, they see Holmes and connolly as being in the way and will now look to the county board to offer the job to Buckley , he's the only one now that could be acceptable to everyone!

thesultan

Would Jimmy Mcguinnes go to Mayo?

davegrohl48

Green Peter wrote: »

I think the players are afraid Buckley is leaving and don't feel they can compete for a title without him, they see Holmes and connolly as being in the way and will now look to the county board to offer the job to Buckley , he's the only one now that could be acceptable to everyone!

I never hear anything other than tackling with Buckley. He's the coach where is our quick counter attacking, target man play? The sweeper system? Nothing to do with the coach?

TCDStudent1

Shurimgreat wrote: »

My point is, he should be making the decisions on the sideline. He's plenty of experience in elite inter county setups, both Mayo and Kerry.

He should at least be given an opportunity.

And again, I hope people don't use the "ah but he doesn't have the intercounty management experience" line. That argument has been comprehensively demolished time and time again by new managers.

You do raise an interesting point though. What exactly does the intercounty "manager" do these days? Pick the team? What else?

Its important to maintain continuity in Mayo football. Buckley ensured that the last few years. He's earned his shot.

I have never been part of an inter-county set up unfortunately so I find it hard to answer your question. I remember reading an article about Jim Gavin where it was saying that he plays the part of a delegator more than anything. He surrounds himself with experts in different areas, gives them scope to do their thing and then he picks the team. I think Horan was known to have a similar approach.

I think Buckley would be a good choice as manager. I was just suggesting that Mayo may 'lose' something if they appoint him as manager. I'd imagine that all the top teams have very skilled coaches in coaching them now. If Buckley was to become manager, then surely he wouldn't have time to do the coaching. And Mayo would have to replace him with another very skilled coach which might not be so easy....

TCDStudent1

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Lee Keegan states in Connaught Telegraph he did not attend meeting and supported mgmt team. One of 7 players who did. I thought a secret ballot... was meant to be secret.

Any link?

Royal Legend

PressRun wrote: »

I think they're sick of waiting, tbh. Coming in second or losing to the eventual winners in the semis isn't good enough anymore. They want an All-Ireland and obviously they don't feel as though that's going to happen under the current management. Although I've always thought Mayo were a good team, I didn't see any huge improvement from what went on under Horan. They didn't seem any closer to an All-Ireland this year than they did last year. They are capable of winning imo, but I think they need someone in there who's going to get the operation working like clockwork and instill a bit of killer instinct.

I hope the county board doesn't try and undermine the players now. Given the conflict of interest at the centre of all this, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there's a stand off of some kind between players and co board/management.

IMO you had the right man in Horan, and it looks like the players know that as well, very very unlucky to lose to Kerry last year in two of the best games of football i have ever witnessed, things just went against you last year, for example your two most prominent forwards clashing heads in the replay, had a huge bearing on the result, plus a couple of dodgy decisions near the end of the game going to Kerry
The standard was set high by Horan, obviously the players felt the standard this season was not good enough. I think if Horan had stayed on he may have got youse over the line this year

davegrohl48

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Any link?

On me phone sorry.

Uncle Ben

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Any link?

Any numbers on how many voted in total. 7 players supporting mgt doesn't seem too bad. I would have thought it would have been almost unanimous in the demand for change.

PressRun

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Any link?

http://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2015/09/29/4106582-lee-keegan-did-not-support-mayo-gaa-noconfidence-vote/

Ascii

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Any numbers on how many voted in total. 7 players supporting mgt doesn't seem too bad. I would have thought it would have been almost unanimous in the demand for change.

7 out of a squad of 32-35 is pretty poor being honest. Surprised at keegan disclosing how he voted. Media have so much to answer for. Players should shut the f**k up talking to the media. All the media do is put a spin on things and take what's said out of context. Players have delivered their letter and ultimatum. They should wait for the CB to have their meeting and decide the outcome and go from there...but for the love of god stay quiet in the meantime.

Shurimgreat

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

I have never been part of an inter-county set up unfortunately so I find it hard to answer your question. I remember reading an article about Jim Gavin where it was saying that he plays the part of a delegator more than anything. He surrounds himself with experts in different areas, gives them scope to do their thing and then he picks the team. I think Horan was known to have a similar approach.

I think Buckley would be a good choice as manager. I was just suggesting that Mayo may 'lose' something if they appoint him as manager. I'd imagine that all the top teams have very skilled coaches in coaching them now. If Buckley was to become manager, then surely he wouldn't have time to do the coaching. And Mayo would have to replace him with another very skilled coach which might not be so easy....

Like you I don't have an inside track on inter county management. I'd imagine the manager or managers attend training session, but again what do they do at these sessions? Just sit there and watch? Decide who is fit and who isn't? Who is going well?

It seems strange that the person closest to the players, who works with them in training sessions, and who basically tells them what to do, then has to take a back seat when it comes to selection and tactics on match day.

I give huge credit to Buckley for bringing on this Mayo team, more so than I would give to Horan, Holmes or Connelly. All I have seen from the managers is poor tactics, substitutions and decision making...undoing all the good work done by Buckley.

Buckley if he leaves, would be a massive loss to Mayo football. But I can understand why he might leave, given that he comes all the way up from Clare I think a few nights a week, and then on big match days sees poor management decisions undo his work. Frustrating I'd imagine.

davegrohl48

Ascii wrote: »

7 out of a squad of 32-35 is pretty poor being honest. Surprised at keegan disclosing how he voted. Media have so much to answer for. Players should shut the f**k up talking to the media. All the media do is put a spin on things and take what's said out of context. Players have delivered their letter and ultimatum. They should wait for the CB to have their meeting and decide the outcome and go from there...but for the love of god stay quiet in the meantime.

You get your vote and then after that you cannot disclose how you voted. As a group the majority decision rules and the issues can be put out in the public. But revealing your vote can only create further division.

TCDStudent1

Ascii wrote: »

7 out of a squad of 32-35 is pretty poor being honest. Surprised at keegan disclosing how he voted. Media have so much to answer for. Players should shut the f**k up talking to the media. All the media do is put a spin on things and take what's said out of context. Players have delivered their letter and ultimatum. They should wait for the CB to have their meeting and decide the outcome and go from there...but for the love of god stay quiet in the meantime.

A 34 man panel I heard / read somewhere earlier today.

The link above says Lee Keegan held the management in the highest regard. The article doesn't provide any direct quotes & says "a source close to the player" so I'd be wary of trusting it. However, it is interesting that probably Mayo's best player of the year has confidence in the management team.

It is hard to envisage a situation whereby one player could have such high regard for management & others have such little confidence that they resort to ousting them in the manner they did.

Uncle Ben

Ascii wrote: »

7 out of a squad of 32-35 is pretty poor being honest. Surprised at keegan disclosing how he voted. Media have so much to answer for. Players should shut the f**k up talking to the media. All the media do is put a spin on things and take what's said out of context. Players have delivered their letter and ultimatum. They should wait for the CB to have their meeting and decide the outcome and go from there...but for the love of god stay quiet in the meantime.

I didn't know how many voted in total however even if only 7 voted with current mgt it is going to leave a sour taste within that squad of players. They're going to have to address this ASAP because if it lies idle it may fester and do further damage to the team.

PressRun

If it was Keegan who spoke to the media, someone should give him a smack for talking. Things are messy enough as it is. Nobody needs players breaking ranks and telling the media things that are only going to throw further spanners in the works.

NabyLadistheman

PressRun wrote: »

If it was Keegan who spoke to the media, someone should give him a smack for talking. Things are messy enough as it is. Nobody needs players breaking ranks and telling the media things that are only going to throw further spanners in the works.

"A source close to" seemed to be the gist of that article. The Connaught definitely not the most reliable & certainly the most sensationalist of the local papers.

PressRun

Suarezistheman wrote: »

"A source close to" seemed to be the gist of that article. The Connaught definitely not the most reliable & certainly the most sensationalist of the local papers.

I hope he didn't say it anyway and it's just some **** stirring on the part of the CT.

mayo.mick

Suarezistheman wrote: »

"A source close to" seemed to be the gist of that article. The Connaught definitely not the most reliable & certainly the most sensationalist of the local papers.

Don't believe a word from that "journo". Been know for writing "suspect articles"

seligehgit

Pressure is piled on the players,at the end of the day... Management can't put the ball over the bar.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/mayo-players-have-no-right-to-blame-others-for-their-own-failures-31569564.html

robbiezero

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

I have never been part of an inter-county set up unfortunately so I find it hard to answer your question. I remember reading an article about Jim Gavin where it was saying that he plays the part of a delegator more than anything. He surrounds himself with experts in different areas, gives them scope to do their thing and then he picks the team. I think Horan was known to have a similar approach.

I think Buckley would be a good choice as manager. I was just suggesting that Mayo may 'lose' something if they appoint him as manager. I'd imagine that all the top teams have very skilled coaches in coaching them now. If Buckley was to become manager, then surely he wouldn't have time to do the coaching. And Mayo would have to replace him with another very skilled coach which might not be so easy....

From a Tipperary point of view Eamon O Shea was widely lauded for his coaching under Liam Sheedys reign, but his stint as manager was a failure.

seligehgit

Morning Ireland reporting that the Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes are not going to step down,it is going to get very messy.:(

irishgeo

seligehgit wrote: »

Morning Ireland reporting that the Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes are not going to step down,it is going to get very messy.:(

That was always going to happen.

davegrohl48

There is no chance of a next best 20 + the 7 + 7 u21s. Mayo public and club players would have no support for that.
Some of the issues seem more county board support related. Medical team for example. Mayo is in a poor Financial situation remember.
There has to be more severe issues than highlighted in Clerkins article. If the Dublin games prep/tactics was breaking point for players then release that. Nothing in public domain looks that bad yet as with medical team only Tom Cunniffe had a soft tissue injury. Maybe no physios to recover for replay. I think they believe they handed Dublin an advantage in the six days with poor prep. Met up once!!!