Is Joe Schmidt concealing his hand?

duckysauce

Trabejo wrote: »

And we were awful in QF to Wales. Or maybe that was Kidney's disastrous decision to drop Sexton. Never forgive, never forget

disastrous decision Welsh back row were massive in that match unreal-- chopped Fez and Sob down at ankles . Wouldn't have made any difference who was outhalf that day watch it again.

Trabejo

duckysauce wrote: »

disastrous decision Welsh back row were massive in that match unreal-- chopped Fez and Sob down at ankles . Wouldn't have made any difference who was outhalf that day watch it again.

Unfortunately you have a fleeting memory. O'Gara and Murray had nightmares that day and were running around like headless chickens. Unfortunately O'Gara was incapable of picking out the correct lines his backrow were running that day like Sexton had the week previously in Ireland's magnificent victory over Australia.

Kidney cost Ireland a semi final by dropping an outhalf who went on to 3 Heineken Cups, two six nations titles and a Lions winning tour, he has gone from being the head coach of a national rugby team to being a teacher in UCC or something. Not one job offering from even a second division club side abroad.

Neil3030

If sexton had played against Wales do you think the gameplan would have shifted all that much from 'give O'Brien the ball'?

Trabejo

Neil3030 wrote: »

If sexton had played against Wales do you think the gameplan would have shifted all that much from 'give O'Brien the ball'?

Yes I do. Unfortunately O'Gara was too used to relying on David Wallace and a superior pack at Munster when he was learning his trade so that whenever his pack was on its backfoot or his 'David Wallace' (in this case O'Brien) wasn't making yards he didn't have a clue what to do. Sexton was always the much more intelligent and creative player. Although O'Gara wasn't helped by a completely out of his depth Connor Murray who broke World Cup records for his slow speed to the breakdown as a scrum half.

duckysauce

Trabejo wrote: »

Unfortunately you have a fleeting memory. O'Gara and Murray had nightmares that day and were running around like headless chickens. Unfortunately O'Gara was incapable of picking out the correct lines his backrow were running that day like Sexton had the week previously in Ireland's magnificent victory over Australia.

Kidney cost Ireland a semi final by dropping an outhalf who went on to 3 Heineken Cups, two six nations titles and a Lions winning tour, he has gone from being the head coach of a national rugby team to being a teacher in UCC or something. Not one job offering from even a second division club side abroad.

yep one player cost us that game . Gatty did a number on us chop chop chop runners killed no ball . Gosh you are a bit bitter towards poor Deccie same could be said about Cooders **** ups on previous WC could not be bothered though . It was an unreal Welsh team that won that match .

Trabejo

duckysauce wrote: »

yep one player cost us that game . Gatty did a number on us chop chop chop runners killed no ball . Gosh you are a bit bitter towards poor Deccie same could be said about Cooders **** ups on previous WC could not be bothered though . It was an unreal Welsh team that won that match .

Well pal according to you chopping down one player (SOB) cost Ireland the game.

duckysauce

Trabejo wrote: »

Well pal according to you chopping down one player (SOB) cost Ireland the game.

Excuse me Pal :eek: my BUD FEZ was there too and the welsh lads did him too. He is the fellow who took Genia for a little walk . Now here was the team did you see the match ?

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)/Sean Cronin (Leinster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (Leinster)/Damien Varley (Garryowen/Munster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
22 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)

Trabejo

duckysauce wrote: »

Excuse me Pal :eek: my BUD FEZ was there too and the welsh lads did him too. He is the fellow who took Genia for a little walk . Now here was the team did you see the match ?

No I never actually saw the game, that's why I am so factually able to analyse it. The Welsh lads were able to make their tackles on Ferris and O'Brien because ROG picked predictable lines every time.

Tackling a player low wasn't exactly a revelation at the time, pal.

duckysauce

Trabejo wrote: »

No I never actually saw the game, that's why I am so factually able to analyse it. The Welsh lads were able to make their tackles on Ferris and O'Brien because ROG picked predictable lines every time.

Tackling a player low wasn't exactly a revelation at the time, pal.

jesus that say's it all -- could not be bothered

Trabejo

duckysauce wrote: »

jesus that say's it all -- could not be bothered

It's called sarcasm pal and I don't know why you use a double hyphen. If you're not bothered discussing rugby then I suggest you go to a non rugby forum.

justsomebloke

duckysauce wrote: »

jesus that say's it all -- could not be bothered

Trabejo wrote: »

It's called sarcasm pal and I don't know why you use a double hyphen. If you're not bothered discussing rugby then I suggest you go to a non rugby forum.

Take it to PM if neither of you have anything constructive to add

Podge_irl

LorMal wrote: »

I agree. But I raise you Ferris, BOD, Darcy

Ferris I'll grant you, but Henshaw/Payne could be as good as that vintage of D'Arcy/BOD. I think in the form Earls and Bowe were in we were better off on the wings though.

I think the teams are probably on a bit of a par overall. It was a combination of selection and gameplan that undid us against Wales. I'd have more confidence in us performing when it really matters this time around but I will admit I'm not quite as confident as I was a month ago.

LorMal

That's about fair. (However, I do think BOD / Darcy offered more then than Payne / Henshaw now - I even think Joe might change that combination yet as the tournament goes on. I wish he had looked at more options before settling on these two. England tried many more variations before they decided - albeit they have more options).

Clearlier

I don't think that Schmidt is concealing an awful lot to be honest. The thing we missed the most against England (didn't see the Wales game unfortunately) was intensity - I expect that to come back in the world cup.

We'll probably see a few more power plays but against top rank opposition 1 try a game is as much as you can expect, the way that we play if we can pick up two then we've a very good chance of winning.

The midfield has come on nicely and is starting to pose a lot more questions of the opposition which will help with gaining ground so that hopefully we're not relying on a series of one out runners. This variety should help but I'm not convinced that we're quite ready to start running in tries through the backs yet.

JF100

WTF Folks.. this 4-year old trolling at its worst... 2011 is gone.
I don't care about Wales...
If we end playing the Welsh, it means we are in a semi-final..
And I wouldn't care if we were playing Wales, the Haarlem Globe Trotters or my mother-in-law's Bridge team...

The Italians are a state of slight disarray and may be bruised by the third match.
I don't think they will be the awkward forza that they could be, by that stage.

I care about France and our performances in the lead-up to that match...
France have gone for power... E.g. Debaty is a 20-stone prop, who finishes flowing backline moves after 70 minutes at Twickenham
France is our concern. It should be our focus.

LorMal

JF100 wrote: »

WTF Folks.. this 4-year old trolling at its worst... 2011 is gone.
I don't care about Wales...
If we end playing the Welsh, it means we are in a semi-final..
And I wouldn't care if we were playing Wales, the Haarlem Globe Trotters or my mother-in-law's Bridge team...

The Italians are a state of slight disarray and may be bruised by the third match.
I don't think they will be the awkward forza that they could be, by that stage.

I care about France and our performances in the lead-up to that match...
France have gone for power... E.g. Debaty is a 20-stone prop, who finishes flowing backline moves after 70 minutes at Twickenham
France is our concern. It should be our focus.

We were just comparing the pre- tournament performances.
I agree that France are a significant challenge.

mr. pleasant

Is Joe Schmidt concealing his hand?

I think he absolutely does. The question is more why would he _not_ conceal his hand?

There was not much to gain from the last two warm ups other than watching 2 potential semi final opponents. Both of them in much more need to be a) match fit and b) go home with a win.

Does anyone really think Ireland was properly going for the win in either of those games? In the England game it was almost too obvious to see the guys raise their game for a few minutes early in the second half to make the score look better before going back into safe mode.

Squad was decided before those two games. They were nothing but a bit of game time for a few lads and checking out the opposition. Main goal was to not get injured.

A bit more faith in Joe please. The man knows what he is doing. Look at
the results Joe's Ireland delivered when it mattered. How is this undone by 2 warm up games?

I predict a massive tournament for Ireland. Beat France, win the semi and compete in the final.

mr. pleasant

mr. pleasant wrote: »

Does anyone really think Ireland was properly going for the win in either of those games?

They were absolutely looking to win both those games and go into the tournament with momentum.

That said, the preparation for those games was not near 6N intensity (from a analysis point of view) and we played a direct and basic gameplan that was the bread and butter of our 6N campaign without adding much invention from our back line or in how we used the set piece (bar one move that we had already used against Scotland from the line-out).

I think the intensity in performance was dialled down as well which is the only frustrating thing. If we want to compete with the likes of NZ then we need to be switched on all the time, but beyond this we got warmed up and didn't pick up any injuries.

mr. pleasant

Deleted User wrote: »

They were absolutely looking to win both those games and go into the tournament with momentum.

That said, the preparation for those games was not near 6N intensity (from a analysis point of view) and we played a direct and basic gameplan that was the bread and butter of our 6N campaign without adding much invention from our back line or in how we used the set piece (bar one move that we had already used against Scotland from the line-out).

I think the intensity in performance was dialled down as well which is the only frustrating thing. If we want to compete with the likes of NZ then we need to be switched on all the time, but beyond this we got warmed up and didn't pick up any injuries.

looks a bit contradicting to me?

also, why not dial down the intensity a bit? I don't have an issue with the warm ups not being played at 6N levels. I'm sure they would have taken a win, but they did not go all out for it.

The WC is all that matters. Nobody cares about warm up games after the WC.

mr. pleasant

mr. pleasant wrote: »

looks a bit contradicting to me?

also, why not dial down the intensity a bit? I don't have an issue with the warm ups not being played at 6N levels. I'm sure they would have taken a win, but they did not go all out for it.

The WC is all that matters. Nobody cares about warm up games after the WC.

It is contradictory. Completely so.

I'm not saying they were told to go out and not bring the A game, but England and Wales were clearly much more up for it and it showed. That's not to say we were blasé about the fixture, just that we didn't really show up which is a bit uncharacteristic.

I put it down to us being rusty in parts and looking very tired after 60 minutes which to me is a team in heavy training not easing up for a fixture.

Does that mean we were happy to lose? Not at all, but we weren't dialled up to 6N / RWC intensity an England / Wales were. When I say that intensity was dialled down I put that blame at the players, not the intentionality of the coaches.

mr. pleasant

Deleted User wrote: »

It is contradictory. Completely so.

I'm not saying they were told to go out and not bring the A game, but England and Wales were clearly much more up for it and it showed. That's not to say we were blasé about the fixture, just that we didn't really show up which is a bit uncharacteristic.

I put it down to us being rusty in parts and looking very tired after 60 minutes which to me is a team in heavy training not easing up for a fixture.

Does that mean we were happy to lose? Not at all, but we weren't dialled up to 6N / RWC intensity an England / Wales were. When I say that intensity was dialled down I put that blame at the players, not the intentionality of the coaches.

agreed, it is indeed a bit uncharacteristic.

And it happened during games where the outcome does not really matter. Which I think is not a coincidence.

I believe that it was neither fitness (maybe with exception of Bowe) nor a players decision to dial down the intensity. I don't think that there is anyone in the Irish team who does not do _exactly_ what Joe orders (or at least tries his utmost). Hence, I do think it was intentional.

blackcard

I think Joe is probably saving attacking moves which will be brought out against France and Italy. What would concern me is how we performed defensively. In the England and Wales games, they seemed to cross the gain line with every possession. The opposition might be attacking say 35 metres out and 10 phases later they would be on our 5 metre line. We never seemed to knock the opposition backwards. If we perform similarly in the WC, we will concede a lot of tries to top opposition.

blackcard

After the weekend win against Canada,I am happy that Joe was indeed concealing his hand in the warm ups and would not be reading too much into the performances against Wales and England other than players were fit/getting fit enough to play in the World Cup